2008 TSUN News

[DiamondBuck]

I assume this has been pointed out before, but according to Scout's class rankings UM has clearly brought in talent superior to tOSU's:

------UM-tOSU
2008...6.....4
2007..10...16
2006...9...13
2005...2....7
2004...5...11

So apparently LLoyd must have run off the talent...

 

[shetuck]

One thing's for sure, "Toledo" is not the answer.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Mallett, Mitchell, Ciulla, Boren, Taylor, etc!!! Thats 5 I can recall from just memory

Yes, a 6'6" 250 lb quarterback would have been just the solution to our problems. Ciulla was so talented he backed up Steve Schilling. Mitchell was in the picture above.

Arrington, Manningham..

How soon we forget that it was pretty widely believed that Manningham and Arrington would leave early even before RR was hired.

What's that picture have to do with anything? Players transferred when RR got there. You guys are not playing well. There is talent there. End of story.

The only two players who transferred were the offensive lineman and Mallett. At this point we could maybe use the offensive lineman; you can't honestly think the line is talented, nor that Ciulla and Mitchell would have been the answers. Mallett was absolutely right when he said his talents weren't suited to this offense.

There's only one player that RR "ran off", and that's the offensive lineman. RR wouldn't let him go home and snowplow or whatever. I could care less about him. There is indeed talent on the team, it's just that none of it is accumulating on the offensive line. In other words, the one thing that had to turn out well above all others did not turn out well. I am not "blaming" Lloyd for that; on the other hand it certainly is not RR's fault.

 

[3074326]

The only two players who transferred were the offensive lineman and Mallett. At this point we could maybe use the offensive lineman; you can't honestly think the line is talented, nor that Ciulla and Mitchell would have been the answers. Mallett was absolutely right when he said his talents weren't suited to this offense.

There's only one player that RR "ran off", and that's the offensive lineman. RR wouldn't let him go home and snowplow or whatever. I could care less about him. There is indeed talent on the team, it's just that none of it is accumulating on the offensive line. In other words, the one thing that had to turn out well above all others did not turn out well. I am not "blaming" Lloyd for that; on the other hand it certainly is not RR's fault.

I have a hard time believing that the talent is bad enough to not beat Toledo.

That's not meant to be a low-blow. But seriously, it's fucking Michigan. The talent is there. Sure, it's a different offense, but these kids were obviously highly-recruited out of high school. I have a hard time believing they just forgot to block, or they suddenly lost talent.

They're young, but they shouldn't lose to Toledo. Once again, not meant to be a low-blow.

 

[jwinslow]

Yes, a 6'6" 250 lb quarterback would have been just the solution to our problems.

A pocket passer being forced into a running role? Nope, that would not go well. He might hold up better than Threet, whose well-known fragility didn't curb his use a runner by RR.

There is indeed talent on the team, it's just that none of it is accumulating on the offensive line. In other words, the one thing that had to turn out well above all others did not turn out well. I am not "blaming" Lloyd for that; on the other hand it certainly is not RR's fault.

There's certainly enough talent to be competitive on D, though.

 

[(o) IoI /o\ (o)]

I have a hard time believing that the talent is bad enough to not beat Toledo.

That's not meant to be a low-blow. But seriously, it's fucking Michigan. The talent is there. Sure, it's a different offense, but these kids were obviously highly-recruited out of high school. I have a hard time believing they just forgot to block, or they suddenly lost talent.

They're young, but they shouldn't lose to Toledo. Once again, not meant to be a low-blow.

Somewhere, Sometime these excuses are going to have to stop by the Michigan fans. No offense HTM, but your argument doesn't hold any water, at least IMHO. For you guys to lose to a MAC team is just inexcusable, especially when you scored more than double the week before against Wiscy. I find it very hard to believe Wiscy's defense was worse than Toledo's.

 

[billmac91]

Yes, a 6'6" 250 lb quarterback would have been just the solution to our problems. Ciulla was so talented he backed up Steve Schilling. Mitchell was in the picture above.

How soon we forget that it was pretty widely believed that Manningham and Arrington would leave early even before RR was hired.

The only two players who transferred were the offensive lineman and Mallett. At this point we could maybe use the offensive lineman; you can't honestly think the line is talented, nor that Ciulla and Mitchell would have been the answers. Mallett was absolutely right when he said his talents weren't suited to this offense.

There's only one player that RR "ran off", and that's the offensive lineman. RR wouldn't let him go home and snowplow or whatever. I could care less about him. There is indeed talent on the team, it's just that none of it is accumulating on the offensive line. In other words, the one thing that had to turn out well above all others did not turn out well. I am not "blaming" Lloyd for that; on the other hand it certainly is not RR's fault.

I thought RR was great at adapting offenses around whoever his QB is? I thought that is what all of the UM fans were saying when he took the job. Everyone commented Mallet wouldn't work in his sytem, but we kept hearing from the UM faithful that RR can adapt his offense around a pocket QB. All sorts of UM fans were saying "he can run a spead without a mobile QB, he has done it before".

There is no way UM's record is worse with Mallet at QB, and as much as I have seen Threet try and wing it around, I'm sure RR is wishing he Mallet's arm to use....

I guess my only serious question is:

Does UM have more talent than Toledo? If the answer is yes, which it is, how do they lose that game?

 

[HailToMichigan]

Does UM have more talent than Toledo? If the answer is yes, which it is, how do they lose that game?

How does USC lose to Oregon State? How does Florida lose to Mississippi? ECU over VT? How does Ohio State lose to Illinois, is the Zooker a better coach than Tressel? One game, bad loss though it may be, is not the tell-all of talent and/or coaching.

He might hold up better than Threet, whose well-known fragility didn't curb his use a runner by RR.

Wait a sec, Threet's a freshman, and to my knowledge wasn't hurt in high school....where do you figure he has "well-known fragility"?

There's certainly enough talent to be competitive on D, though.

This I agree with. The offense has shown me some flashes of excellence, which lends hope for the future. The defense has also shown flashes of excellence, which would be nice but for the expectations of consistency.

 

[3074326]

I'll clarify - Toledo won and had 13 points. No offensive TDs.

 

[billmac91]

How does USC lose to Oregon State? How does Florida lose to Mississippi? ECU over VT? How does Ohio State lose to Illinois, is the Zooker a better coach than Tressel? One game, bad loss though it may be, is not the tell-all of talent and/or coaching.


Wait a sec, Threet's a freshman, and to my knowledge wasn't hurt in high school....where do you figure he has "well-known fragility"?


This I agree with. The offense has shown me some flashes of excellence, which lends hope for the future. The defense has also shown flashes of excellence, which would be nice but for the expectations of consistency.

Are Oregon State, Ole Miss, Illinois, even ECU, a 1-4 MAC team?

Also when talking about talent, isn't Michigan going to have a few players taken in this draft? He hardly ever had guys taken in the draft at WVU. He'll likely match his career total for getting players taken in the draft, after 1 season at UM. Yet, he can't sniff .500?

 

[BB73]

How does USC lose to Oregon State? How does Florida lose to Mississippi? ECU over VT? How does Ohio State lose to Illinois, is the Zooker a better coach than Tressel? One game, bad loss though it may be, is not the tell-all of talent and/or coaching.

Great point. But 2-5 might indicate some type of negative pattern.

 

[shetuck]

How does USC lose to Oregon State? How does Florida lose to Mississippi? ECU over VT? How does Ohio State lose to Illinois, is the Zooker a better coach than Tressel? One game, bad loss though it may be, is not the tell-all of talent and/or coaching...

Yada yada...

USC? 5-1
Florida? 5-1
ECU? 4-3
Ohio State? 7-1
TSUN? 2-5

It's not the "how". It's the "how often". Let's call that "The M*ch*gan difference".

EDIT: BB73 beat me to it...

 

[jwinslow]

Wait a sec, Threet's a freshman, and to my knowledge wasn't hurt in high school....where do you figure he has "well-known fragility"?

You didn't follow spring ball? That was one of the biggest concerns coming into the season.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Are Oregon State, Ole Miss, Illinois, even ECU, a 1-4 MAC team?

Also when talking about talent, isn't Michigan going to have a few players taken in this draft? He hardly ever had guys taken in the draft at WVU. He'll likely match his career total for getting players taken in the draft, after 1 season at UM. Yet, he can't sniff .500?

Are we? Who on offense is going to be taken in the draft? I don't see a single prospect this year. On defense, there's Graham if he leaves, and Taylor.

And you're missing the point. Illinois beat you guys, so according to the line of reasoning that's being used here, either Illinois is more talented than you or Zook is a better coach than Tressel. I doubt you'd get a single person here to claim that's the case. Upsets happen for other reasons, not least of which would be that the offense is run by a freshman quarterback operating behind a terrible offensive line. I suppose we could have a big-ass sophomore quarterback operating behind a terrible offensive line made up of different players if RR hadn't "run them off."

 

[billmac91]

I suppose we could have a big-ass sophomore quarterback operating behind a terrible offensive line made up of different players if RR hadn't "run them off."

Good point.