2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

[Buckeye86]

The question also is, will Boeckman perform like he did in the latest big games? If Boeckman plays as skittish during the first few games as he did his last three games, I think JT will do what he did in 2004, ala Zwick. If Boeckman chucks up some INTs against the likes of YSU and Ohio, don't be surprised if he gives Bauserman or Henton a shot at USC. "Healthy" means squat if you're ineffective.

You must think Boeckman has some serious flaws in his game if you think he's going to continue his "slump" to start off the year this year. Do you think his mechanics are bad or what? As far as I'm concerned, his main flaw was poor decision making, relying on the deep bomb far too often rather than getting rid of the ball or checking down.

Why did he make bad decisions and throw those picks? In my opinion, more pressure than he had seen all year combined with better athletes covering our guys down field during the last two games, and the Illinois game was him trying to make big plays rather than just moving the ball down the field. Both mistakes seem pretty common for a first year starter at QB.

Do you really think that YSU and OU are going to be able to force Boeckman to make bad decisions with pressure or because we are down late in the game? and even if he does make bad decisions (specifically the deep bomb), do you really think those two teams will have the athletes to capitalize on them?

It's concerning that Boeckman appears to not be able to handle pressure (both literal and figurative) in certain circumstances, especially at the end of last year (even though he showed at Penn State that he could handle it), but to think that YSU and OU are going to be able to force him into the kind of mistakes that he made in the final three games last year is pretty ridiculous.

So I guess the big question is going to be: which Boeckman will show up for the USC game? end of year Boeckman or PSU Boeckman. But first year starter Boeckman isn't playing this year, he has a whole year of experience under his belt with games under the brightest spotlight, if anything I feel like those tough games at the end of last year will help him more than hurt him, because now he knows what it's like to be in those type of games.

And like others have said, if we do make it past USC, hopefully Boeckman faces some tough situations all year so that he can stay sharp when it's crunch time at the end of the year.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

I still maintain that with a healthy Chris Wells, the QB position really shouldn't be an issue. If we don't try to get too cute and throw downfield every time we pass midfield, it won't be an issue. If we don't try to throw on 3rd and 3, it won't be an issue. If we are smart and play it safe field-position wise, it won't be an issue. The only way this becomes an issue is when the coaches try to win a game with Boeckman and not Wells or the defense.

Most games, you're probably right. But if we are in a dogfight and find ourselves down by 4 with 2 minutes to play, they have to put it in the QBs hands. Now the QB matters. That's when you need the guy behind center who doesn't panic and doesn't force it. And it also helps if you have a QB with a flare for the dramatic/heroic! :)

I just don't see TB as that guy. Not saying we have anyone else more prepared...just saying, I'll probably be freaking out if we're in the hurry up at USC with under 2 to go needing a TD to win it! As I've said before though...I'd love nothing more than for TB to prove my gut wrong in this scenario!

We could talk about this issue forever I suppose, but only time will tell. Man I hate the offseason!

 

[Seenile]

One fact that has not been brought up as much is that Boeckman was lucky against inferior competition early last year that he didn't have another handful of interceptions. I can remember several passes (Akron and/or YSU, UW, etc.) that went through the hands of defenders rather than being intercepted or barely cleared the defenders reach for an OSU touchdown. Many of those passes went into the stat book as incompletes or even touchdowns and hid a glaring problem that has existed since day one.

I remember telling my friends that if he didn't correct that problem, it was going to be a problem against better DBs or with more pressure from better DEs and sure enough, it bit us in the end. The problem is, after reading the articles in the off-season about him figuring out what was wrong (waiting to be 100% sure rather than 80%, being told to underthrow the ball by coaches, working on his footwork, etc.), he then proceeds to throw 2 interceptions in the first half alone, which equates to a 4-interception game/52-interception season.

I know that multiplying those stats out is not exactly realistic but his performance did not exactly give me much reassurance either. If we ran a high-powered spread offense that threw the ball 60+ times a game and was built for high-risk, high-return, high-point totals it would be one thing, but we still maintain a Tressel-ized version of ball control whether or not we are in the I-back/pro set or no-back 5-receiver formation. We are not build for those type of turnovers and games like Illinois and LSU (or even MSU) illustrate the risk we take by being complacent with turnovers.

I hope that Boeckman for once and for all addresses this problem but I think that Tressel has to be ready to change QBs sooner rather than later if that problem still exists. Sometimes pulling a QB lights a fire under them for when they do get a second chance and other times you don't know what you have (in Bauserman, Henton, or Pryor) until you give the other QB a chance (like with Troy Smith).

My vote would be to have Boeckman split time with another QB (either Bauserman or Henton) in the first few games to increase competition and develop a viable second option. I think Boeckman will be a head-case if he doesn't have that competition to keep him focused and that is exactly what we will need with USC around the corner. I live in Los Angeles and was at the 1985 Rose Bowl where OSU lost 20-17 to SC so for me, it has been a long time coming, looking to silence the obnoxious SC fans. IMO, this is like the national championship game and I think Tressel has to treat it as such.:osu:

 

[HorticullyBuck]

I thought that was a very good post seenile. And to the previous posts; how excatly can you compare two totally different QB's Troy smith scambled for many yrds and touchdowns. I have not seen that factored in to the comparisions, and setting the numbers side by side is poor because of many factors like different defenses and offensive players.

 

[mercer_buckeye]

My vote would be to have Boeckman split time with another QB (either Bauserman or Henton) in the first few games to increase competition and develop a viable second option.

This wouldn't increase competition it would send the message to a championship caliber team that they don't have a leader. Not saying that Boeckman has leadership abilities, but the position of QB itself does.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

i agree but

mili do you agree with one or both of those two statements?

just for my personal knowledge.

I agree that playing bigger opponents in high-profile games (Michigan, NC game) is a whole new level compared to the normal grind of regular season play, but you'd think that the regular season (pre-Michigan) would set a QB up to be prepared and to perform at a level at least the same as he had played up until then, and not regress. It's not that Boeckman had "an" off-game (singular), but three off games in a row at the worst time to have them.

I also see your point about Troy spending too much time on the Heisman banquet circuit. But, in a way that supports my argument, in that Troy had an "excuse" for his poor play (too lax up until the NC game) whereas Todd did not.


No one wants to see Boeckman light up everyone this year more than I do. But, as relatively easy as it is to fix a QBs mechanics, it's that much harder to fix his psyche.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

No one wants to see Boeckman light up everyone this year more than I do. But, as relatively easy as it is to fix a QBs mechanics, it's that much harder to fix his psyche.

I definately second that!

For the folks that saw TB play back in high school, did he have a moxie/cockiness/swagger back then? Just curious if it's more his personality or a confidence issue.

 

[Seenile]

This wouldn't increase competition it would send the message to a championship caliber team that they don't have a leader. Not saying that Boeckman has leadership abilities, but the position of QB itself does.

I agree that the QB position is very significant in terms of a team's psyche, which makes it even more important that this issue be settled sooner rather than later, lest OSU 2005 happen again. The rest of the team saw what happened at the Spring game and there is nothing more demoralizing than seeing your QB give games away with interceptions.

In terms of the message being sent, Florida 2006, LSU 2007, VT 2007, OSU 1996, etc all managed to be championship caliber teams using multiple QBs without breaking the morale of the team. In fact, we are relying on this very precedence with our plans with Pryor. It is already almost a given that OSU will shuffle in and out their QBs, ala Leak/Tebow; the questions is whether or not we have the right QB to throw the longer passes (and Bauserman's deep throws were looking awfully good, imo).

With Laurinaitis, Jenkins, Wells, Robiskie, etc, this team is chalked full of leaders. What we need is QB production with minimized turnovers and ultimately, victories; the championship part will take care of itself.
:osu:

 

[powerlifter]

I agree that the QB position is very significant in terms of a team's psyche, which makes it even more important that this issue be settled sooner rather than later, lest OSU 2005 happen again. The rest of the team saw what happened at the Spring game and there is nothing more demoralizing than seeing your QB give games away with interceptions.

In terms of the message being sent, Florida 2006, LSU 2007, VT 2007, OSU 1996, etc all managed to be championship caliber teams using multiple QBs without breaking the morale of the team. In fact, we are relying on this very precedence with our plans with Pryor. It is already almost a given that OSU will shuffle in and out their QBs, ala Leak/Tebow; the questions is whether or not we have the right QB to throw the longer passes (and Bauserman's deep throws were looking awfully good, imo).

With Laurinaitis, Jenkins, Wells, Robiskie, etc, this team is chalked full of leaders. What we need is QB production with minimized turnovers and ultimately, victories; the championship part will take care of itself.
:osu:

Pretty good thoughts....I definitely don't think having a combo qb setup is a bad thing. I think that theory has been proven false lately with many teams using multiple qb's. Not only does it spin around the opposing defense,but it also gets other qb's(conservatively most of the time) on the field. If you do not have a clear cut starting qb,then there is no reason to keep him on the field at all times,if he isn't performing accordingly.Will it cause a confidence issue in the starter? If so,then improve or lose your job..Teams need to win games not make friends. Who's to say Bauserman/Henton isn't a better qb right now? We don't know..We can only philosophisize...If TB had two exceptional games at the beginning of the season,who's to say Bauserman wouldn't have done just as good if not better?

Also,in your previous post you said Troy ran for touchdowns. I think Troy used his mobility to make plays whereas TB put on his running shoes way to early on plays where receivers were open,but was facing pressure. I think that stems more from lack of confidence in his ability then anything else.

TB is supposed to be a pocket passer. Nobody ever said TS was only a pocket passer (although he was a damn fine passer)..He had the ability to make stuff happen and used his head,when it didn't.

A big reason so many people are jazzed about Pryor coming to OSU is because we do not have a clear cut runaway qb right now,and we all know it. That doesn't take away from what TP could bring to the table by any means,but it does make you think about the current situation.

The job is TB's. If he doesn't improve from last year,and show he is the clutch qb(not just a good qb versus lesser opponents),then he definitely needs a little time on the bench to readdress his own situation...JMO. OSU can smother mostly any opponent with their defense and their backfield. We need a leader in the clutch behind the center..

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Pretty good thoughts....I definitely don't think having a combo qb setup is a bad thing. I think that theory has been proven false lately with many teams using multiple qb's. Not only does it spin around the opposing defense,but it also gets other qb's(conservatively most of the time) on the field. If you do not have a clear cut starting qb,then there is no reason to keep him on the field at all times,if he isn't performing accordingly.

Your talking about two completely different ideas here and calling them the same. Florida 2006, LSU 2007, etc brought in an athlete to run a very specific set of plays that were either runs or fake runs, much like we might do with Henton or Pryor. Seenile is proposing that we split starter's reps between two quarterbacks doing the same things on the field. Completely different ideas, and telling Boeckman that we are so skeptical of him as a starter that we want other QB's to split reps with him is only going to hurt his confidence and prevent the swagger you want to see develop. I'm all for other QB's getting garbage time reps, so long as they all know the job is all TB's.

Will it cause a confidence issue in the starter? If so,then improve or lose your job..Teams need to win games not make friends. Who's to say Bauserman/Henton isn't a better qb right now? We don't know..We can only philosophisize...If TB had two exceptional games at the beginning of the season,who's to say Bauserman wouldn't have done just as good if not better?

I'm going to hope the coaches know, seeing as they have hundreds of hours of practice with all of these quarterbacks. You really think that the coaches have no clue who is the better quarterback? And you really think that if they were that unsure that they wouldn't have played other players more last season, and that they wouldn't have taken the precautions with Todd that they did during the spring game so as to prevent injury to him? Thats an awful lot of conjecture, even more than you already had.

I'm really confused by something that people seem to keep bringing up in this thread. In one sentence they say that Todd needs to cut down on the interceptions because all we need is someone to manage the offense and let Beanie, the O-line, and the defense take care it. Just manage the game, no turnovers, and we will win easily. Then in the next sentence they say that we need Todd to be more of a playmaker and they bring up Troy and say look what Troy did and we need Todd to do that and we need Henton or Bauserman to come in because they can make the big plays. I just cant understand what people are looking for out of Todd this season.

 

[powerlifter]

Your talking about two completely different ideas here and calling them the same. Florida 2006, LSU 2007, etc brought in an athlete to run a very specific set of plays that were either runs or fake runs, much like we might do with Henton or Pryor. Seenile is proposing that we split starter's reps between two quarterbacks doing the same things on the field. Completely different ideas, and telling Boeckman that we are so skeptical of him as a starter that we want other QB's to split reps with him is only going to hurt his confidence and prevent the swagger you want to see develop. I'm all for other QB's getting garbage time reps, so long as they all know the job is all TB's.



I'm going to hope the coaches know, seeing as they have hundreds of hours of practice with all of these quarterbacks. You really think that the coaches have no clue who is the better quarterback? And you really think that if they were that unsure that they wouldn't have played other players more last season, and that they wouldn't have taken the precautions with Todd that they did during the spring game so as to prevent injury to him? Thats an awful lot of conjecture, even more than you already had.

I'm really confused by something that people seem to keep bringing up in this thread. In one sentence they say that Todd needs to cut down on the interceptions because all we need is someone to manage the offense and let Beanie, the O-line, and the defense take care it. Just manage the game, no turnovers, and we will win easily. then in the next sentence they say that we need Todd to be more of a playmaker and they bring up Troy and say look what Troy did and we need Todd to do that and we need Henton or Bauserman to come in because they can make the big plays. I just cant understand what people are looking for out of Todd this season.

I don't think it's asking to much of a starting qb in div 1 college football to be a leader,and make big plays. He isn't a newbie to the team. It's just kinda hard to accept the way he played in big games last year and it not come up this season. These questions and comments aren't just pulled out of the air. They are there because of his performance. I have a hard time believing what I seen of TB last year against tougher opponents shouldn't be questioned. If he is having confidence issues,then maybe it's because of his performance and he knows it?

One last thing. Practice and game day are two different things. Do you think the coaches honestly knew Troy Smith was a better qb then Justin Zwick? Do you think they were just holding out as an ace in the hole? Why not start Smith and win from the get go then?TB has had a season under his belt. The only reason he is lacking the "swagger" is because he didn't perform how MOST people wanted him to perform.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

Penn State, on the road, under the lights

19 for 26 passing for 253 yards 3 TDs and 1 INT

The Purdue game was also a pretty big game. Not necessarily because it was a difficult game, but there were a lot of unknowns going into a high profile night game. Having been at the game, I'd say that the folks at PU treated it like the biggest game of their lives. Black out and all.

It wasn't exactly one of Todd's best games as far as INTs go, but I think that there was some experimentation going on with the staff. The game was put away fairly early and it gave JB and JT some opportunities to run some things in a "real" game that they would likely use later in the year.

All things considered, TB is and will be our QB. He'll do a fine job. He has some obvious issues that he needs to address, but that's for him and the coaches to figure out. We message-board coaches aren't pointing out anything that the staff doesn't already know. The staff will take care of the issues one way or another...

 

[Sportsbuck28]

I'd say JT made it very clear to all of us who his guy is at the spring game... the only one with a black jersey on.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Penn State, on the road, under the lights

19 for 26 passing for 253 yards 3 TDs and 1 INT

The Purdue game was also a pretty big game. Not necessarily because it was a difficult game, but there were a lot of unknowns going into a high profile night game.

Purdue: Game 6
Penn State: Game 9

Then Wisconsin came to town, and Boeckman started his dropoff.

You must think Boeckman has some serious flaws in his game if you think he's going to continue his "slump" to start off the year this year.

I don't have a real problem with his "game" mechanics-wise. I do have a concern about his recent confidence in real big games. If he has a bad game at USC, then win or lose we need a change at QB.

 

[powerlifter]

Purdue: Game 6
Penn State: Game 9

Then Wisconsin came to town, and Boeckman started his dropoff.


I don't have a real problem with his "game" mechanics-wise. I do have a concern about his recent confidence in real big games. If he has a bad game at USC, then win or lose we need a change at QB.

Bingo...It seems like some people are so content with his performances against lesser talent teams that they overlook his problems in big games,and like it or not he does have problems. Last time I checked it wasn't like he was putting up monster numbers all year long,and just had problems in big games. He had ok numbers,and had real issues when the heat is on.