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2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

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DaddyBigBucks said:
I have publicly offered you 10,000:1 odds. If you want, I will set up the vBet. Just say the word.
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HorticullyBuck;1161322; said:
I have no idea what that even is, i come on here to read and discuss football, thats all i'm going to say.
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HorticullyBuck said:
wow, you guys are arrogant. I never said TP would start over TB, i dont think TP will start over TB, im saying if TB goes on another slump, he might be benched, Bauserman or henton could take over. I'm sure the same stuff was said about the troy/zwick debate. You are more than welcome to respond/disagree/re-buttal my ideas but at least act like respectable about it.
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vBets are wagers made with virtual money, within BP's vBookie system. DaddyBigBucks was offering a chance for you to make a healthy vProfit if your scenario of Boeckman being benched came true during the upcoming season. He was trying to do you a favor, and didn't mention Pryor at all, and then you questioned why he thought you mentioned Pryor, and seemed to claim that he put words into your mouth, when he didn't do that.

HorticullyBuck said:
Please site where i said anything about TP replacing TB. You really shouldn't put words into other peoples mouths to justify yourself

I dont see why its so 'dilusional' to think that TB might get benched if he goes into another slump... Teams do it all the time.
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When one misquotes somebody else, or contradicts himself on this board, one can expect to be called on it. I seems to me that your reactions to the comments others have about your posts are stronger than the comments are.

I believe that you had been treated respectfully prior to the last post that I quoted above. When you start calling other posters arrogant, however, that may change quickly.
 
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I'm sorry, but TB just hasn't shown that he can take care of the football. All the TB supporters love to tell us that the coaches told him to underthrow the long ball. I've only read a first-hand account of that mentioned once. To me, that excuse is good for a 1-game gaffe, no more.

Let's go back and, thinking of the fundamentals of Tresselball, see which strategy doesn't fit:
Make good decisions with the football, the best throw might be one into the stands.
The punt is the most important play in football.
Throw the ball to the other team, repeatedly.
Play stifling defense.
Run the ball and control the clock.
Tailor your game plan to your players' skills.


For those comparing TB and TS, attempts per interception:
TS '04: 40.66
TS '05: 59.25
TS '06: 51.83
TB '07: 21.35
 
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Buckeye86;1161321; said:
Teams may do it all the time, Jim Tressel doesn't.


Here's the stat line again with Smith in '06 thrown in to make it clearer.

__________________Troy Smith '05 ____'06 ________Todd Boeckman
GP __________________11_______________13______________13
Effic. _____________162.65 __________161.91__________148.94
Cmp-Att-Int ________149-237-4 _______203-311-6_______191-299-14
Cmp Pct _____________62.9_____________65.3____________63.9
Yds _______________2282 ____________2542____________2379
TD __________________16 ______________30______________25
Avg/G ______________207.5 ___________195.5___________183.0

and like jimotis4heisman pointed out, Smith had his share of bad games both years
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Now let's compare that to a performance that DID warrant getting pulled. What follows are JZ's numbers from the first 6 games of '04.

____________att__comp__int__yds____td____efficiency
Cinci_______26____14____2___213_____1_____119.969
Marshall____30____18____2___324_____3_____170.387
NCSU________21____10____0____73_____0______76.819
NW__________38____18____1___211_____1______97.432
Wisky_______31____15____0___125_____0______82.258
Iowa________14_____6____1____74_____0______72.971
Total______160____81____6__1020_____5_____106.988


Those last 4 were decent teams in '04; but they were not in a class with the roster of future NFL regulars that LSU put on the field in January.

Would JZ have kept his job if he had the 2008 offensive line to work behind? We'll never know, but it is entirely possible.

What is considerably more clear is whether TB will lay an egg that looks anything like the numbers above while working behind the 2008 offensive line and with Beanie Wells to hand the ball to rather than Lydell Ross. I'll give you three guesses and I'll spot you the 'N' and the 'O'.


Another thing that is painfully clear from the above table is that JZ was not benched for his turnovers. As Mili has reminded us, he wasn't benched just for his injury either. Tressel said it was time for a change, and it obviously wasn't about the interceptions. It was about the lack of production.

Less than 6 yards per attempt in 4 straight games against slightly better than mediocre competition is a long-long way from getting it done. It wasn't all JZ's fault; but those numbers are what it takes to get pulled.
 
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jimotis4heisman;1161297; said:
what about if you compare his numbers to the first season that troy took over 2005...


2006
troy threw 4 of 6 ints in the last 4 games
if you look at it in 2006 troy had a couple of shaky games
uf 4-14 int 0 tds 35 yards sacked 5 times
psu 12-22 2 ints 1 td 115 yds
ill 13-23 1 int 0 tds 108 yards sacked 3 times
2005
texas 5-11 78 yards td sacked twice
psu 13-25 int 139 yards sacked 5 times
2004
psu 6-8 59 yards sacked 3 times
purdue 14-29 3 ints 1 td 192 yards sacked 3 times

if part of troys legacy is as michigan killer and his heisman part of his legacy will also be his struggles vs psu, his ncaa violation, his breaking a womans jaw during a fight and breaking car windows the michigan week 2003, toss out the hs stuff.

without bashing a kid you find it hard to overlook a dr jekyl mr hyde that will always be with troy smith.
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Let me address each area:
2004
psu 6-8 59 yards sacked 3 times
purdue 14-29 3 ints 1 td 192 yards sacked 3 times
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PSU game, no INTs against a tough defense...won the game 21-10.
Purdue was a bad game, but we all know how he rebounded in a big way the next week

2005
texas 5-11 78 yards td sacked twice
psu 13-25 int 139 yards sacked 5 times
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You really can't be serious in using the Texas game...it was his first live game in nearly nine months and was shuffled in and out against the eventual national champs.
PSU was horrid playing conditions (far worse than at Michigan last season), and no one had a good game on offense on either team that night.

2006
troy threw 4 of 6 ints in the last 4 games
if you look at it in 2006 troy had a couple of shaky games
uf 4-14 int 0 tds 35 yards sacked 5 times
psu 12-22 2 ints 1 td 115 yds
ill 13-23 1 int 0 tds 108 yards sacked 3 times
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Four INTs in four games isn't six INTs in three games.
The Florida game was hardly his fault, with Barton and Boone playing matador with the Florida DEs...no QB could've done anything.
The PSU another was in another deluge, and yet he still managed to make a Heisman signature play with his scrambling TD bomb.
Part of his shaky game at Illinois is that JT shut the offense down in the second half after we were up 17-0 at halftime, and Illinois started stacking the line.

Every QB has an off game or two during the season, even Heisman Trophy winners. However, when your QB clearly regresses at the end of the season, against the most important competition, then there is cause for concern.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1161391; said:
...there is cause for concern.
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Cause for concern: Absolutely. No ostriches here.

Will he get pulled: No friggin' way. He'll start every game barring injury. (I haven't seen you address this point one way or the other.)



I am definitely concerned. But I'm also an optimist when it comes to Jim Tressel's ability to develop a quarterback.

IF our OL is the pile moving machine that I expect they'll be, and

IF Beanie is 1/2 of what I expect or better;

Then TB is playing with such an incredibly stacked deck that keeping his job will be a walk in the park.

What I'm most concerned about is that USC will have a typical slow start to the season and we'll end up not giving Boeckman a serious test until the NC game again. I'm hoping that SOMEONE in the Big Ten will step up and contend this year.
 
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