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2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

ScarletStorms;1139006; said:
Ok, yes Boeckman had the most 40+ pass plays but he never completed one when we needed it which is exactly what we need in a play maker. Krenzel almost never had big throws except when the game was on the line. I don't care if he doesn't throw a single pass until we need him to and then he delivers. That takes the pressure off of Beanie when we need it off of Beanie, not when we are blowing a game wide open. And once again I don't think Beanie is the kind of player that wins games on one play, although he may have done it once in his career as I am sure I will have thrown back at me in an ignorant attempt to disprove my point as though it all predicates on him never having done it once in his career. That is my impatience with some of these posts getting the best of me, sorry.

You know what though, you are right about the championship game, he did have a few passes that were dropped but unfortunately you never get excuses from play makers. They will usually find a way to win. And we had all game to come back, I don't think it was ever really entirely out of reach as it was with Florida.

So none of his 40+ yard completions came when it was needed? Maybe the coaching staff should try and keep games close so the big pass plays are considered "needed". I don't know, a tie 7-7 game or a first quarter bomb for a touchdown, seems "big/needed" to me. What exactly counts as needed? To further my point, wouldn't you rather have a big play early to open up the ground game for Beanie?

A 40+ yard completion at the end of the fourth quarter doesn't keep the opposing defensive coordinator from creeping his safeties into the box the entire game.

I can't give an honest assessment on how Henton throws a deep ball, or what his passing effiency rating would have been last year. I do know Todd has proven he can get the job done. He also proven way more than Justin Zwick ever did. I just point that out, because the comparisons to Zwick seem out of place to me (not to say you have SS).

I'm all for Henton getting some meaningful snaps next year to see his metal, but not at the expense of a guy who got us to the National Championship a year premature.
 
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Coaches know their QBs skill set. Maybe Krenzel was known not to have a great arm so the coaches rarely called long passes.
How quickly some have foregotten what his(CK) throws looked like! :tongue2:
Long accuracy wasn't Krensel's strength. Command of the game was.
Stop trying to throw Boeckman under the bus.
 
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Sportsbuck28;1138970; said:
The 2002 defense got stronger as the competition did, while the 2007 D folded when the chips were down.


The 2007 Defense didnt "fold"

However what it didnt do on those two games was play with consistency.
Go back to the BCS CG. If you take away LSU's 2nd quarter play its a whole different story.

The defense as a whole in 2008-2009 needs to consistently make solid open field tackles, wrap up properly, and not bite so hard on play action.


Again, the biggest problem with the defense against Illinois and LSU can be summed up into one word - "Consistency"
 
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Taosman;1139048; said:
Coaches know their QBs skill set. Maybe Krenzel was known not to have a great arm so the coaches rarely called long passes.
How quickly some have foregotten what his(CK) throws looked like! :tongue2:
Long accuracy wasn't Krensel's strength. Command of the game was.
Stop trying to throw Boeckman under the bus.

Isn't command of the game a more critical component to have in a QB? Todd is the leader out there in 2008. I thought his deep balls started to fade some toward the end of last season, but he did put up some respectable numbers. So the team is a year older, TB is our leader, Henton is a contender for number 2 QB and Pryor simply has to learn the system and get some reps as #3 at first. Then as the season progresses and JT fires the new big gun a few times to test his accuarcy, I think we'll see Pryor stepping into the game but Henton may just kick it up a notch and prove he can stand in as number 2. The battle for #2 will continue well into the season. Right now, Henton has that job as I see it.

The Freshman will push the others to improve and the team will get that much better.

Pryor has much to learn and adjusting to D1 play may be easy for him. Let's see how he does as he applies his tools and proves his worth.
 
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Game command is the most critical "skill". Boeckman is getting there.
And he's a better passer than Krenzel. That's my point.
Henton, is known as the "Mad Bomber" from high school, where he threw it up numerous times to a big time WR on his team. But, he hasn't done anything , yet. And Bauserman is pushing him.
Pryor, has talent, but needs much work on the mechanics of passing. And overall QB/game command.
We don't want to have to depend on Henton, Bauserman or even Pryor just yet. That's a recipe for a loss.
This is Todd's team.
 
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He was the same quarterback consistently through 13 games that got put up against more difficulties. And of course he would tell me that his decision making was porous because the alternative is that he cannot be depended upon to make a play.
Most first year QBs can not be depended on consistently in my experience. If he can make the next step, then we should be just fine. Typically the biggest improvement comes between year 1 & 2.
You want his accuracy to improve? He threw 64%. It is not going to get much better. Are you trying to tell me that he is going to throw 70%. "Baloney". He is a 65% quarterback.
I think he can improve his accuracy a lot on the big play gambles... especially ball placement. He underthrew a lot of deep balls last year, imo. He can certainly improve on his accuracy in the ILL & UM games, which involved lots of unforced errors.
I am not just talking about the skill positions on our offense. The majority of our offense will play in the NFL. Even our backups are NFL caliber. And at what point in my post did you get it in your head that I was arguing that we are fielding a team of NFL starters that are under performing. Take it this way. We have as much talent as any of the top tier offenses and yet we aren't one of them. And we are probably deeper than most of them too, because our coaching staff does a great job getting our second unit time.
That's a mountain of hyperbole, imo. OSU does not have double digit future NFL players on offense, from what they've shown thus far. Maybe they'll all buck the trend and develop into NFL players, but that is a pretty unrealistic and unfair expectation.

Right now, Beanie & Robiskie are NFL talents. Who else has proven that they deserve such enormous recognition?
And I understand that we can move in a dynamic 3rd receiver but I am not so sure that anyone out of Sanzenbacher is going to step up. And he is a possession receiver as well. I still think we are going to run a majority of two receiver sets. And I said as much in earlier posts. You seem to have a bleaker view of our current talent but a much brighter view of our incoming freshman if you think that one of them is going to unseat Small and Sanzenbacher for PT.
I don't have that bleak of a viewpoint of Robiskie, Hartline, Boom and others. I just don't think they are as remarkable (YET) as you're selling, and especially not as remarkable that it's such a given that they'll be a brilliant offense.
And BTW our defense was stellar. If you are going to argue with me that they hung up too many points it might have been because we couldn't get anything going on O which affects momentum and time to rest for the D.
That excuse doesn't work at all. The 2002 offense was infinitely more inconsistent than the 07 squad, and helped the D much less.

PSU 02 - shut down Pro Bowler Larry Johnson, held opponent to 7 points, and would've still lost if not for Gamble pick-6.
Purdue 02 - Hold opposition to 6 points, and if not for a hail mary, they lose.
Ill accept that 2002 was better, but not by much. And maybe Krenzel wouldn't have performed much better against LSU but you have to consider that our 2002 had a number of players that we could depend on to make plays.
The 2002 defense destroyed everyone they faced, including a team oozing with pro bowl talent in the desert. Andre Johnson, Kellen Winslow & Willis McGahee are all top-5 talents at their position in the NFL.

The 06 & 07 defenses had very good years. When it counted, they were not dominant, nor able to impose their will. Quite the opposite, really.
It was certainly adequate enough to have won the championship with.
Bingo. Adequate (at best) on the big stage, only when paired with a high scoring offense.

Not in the same zipcode as the DOMINANCE of the 02 squad.
 
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jwinslow;1139184; said:
PSU 02 - shut down Pro Bowler Larry Johnson, held opponent to 7 points, and would've still lost if not for Gamble pick-6.
Purdue 02 - Hold opposition to 6 points, and if not for a hail mary, they lose.
The 2002 defense destroyed everyone they faced, including a team oozing with pro bowl talent in the desert. Andre Johnson, Kellen Winslow & Willis McGahee are all top-5 talents at their position in the NFL.

The 06 & 07 defenses had very good years. When it counted, they were not dominant, nor able to impose their will. Quite the opposite, really.Bingo. Adequate (at best) on the big stage, only when paired with a high scoring offense.

Not in the same zipcode as the DOMINANCE of the 02 squad.

Agree completely. I think we don't have the forces at DT like we did in '02 and unless they have improved vastly, I would think it would be hard to be that "dominant." I still think the key was Peterson, Anderson, etc. freeing up everyone else.
 
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jwinslow;1138948; said:
Krenzel was certainly a gamer. He was a perfect complement to a strong running game and dominating defense. I do not believe he would do much better against LSU, nor with the 07 defense..

I want to expand on this point. The reason we were successful against Miami was their vunerability to the power run game and QB draw's. The defense, yes was stellar; the fact is 2007 LSU would have been more effective compared to Miami in making us truly one dimensional.

Krenzel made some solid throws in the title game, but to call him a consistent pocket quarterback is nothing short of being completely wrong.

Lastly, not to take anything away from our victory, we beat a team considered by many to be one of the greatest of all time and that game will forever be burned into my memory.
 
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Buckeneye;1141494; said:
I want to expand on this point. The reason we were successful against Miami was their vunerability to the power run game and QB draw's. The defense, yes was stellar; the fact is 2007 LSU would have been more effective compared to Miami in making us truly one dimensional.

Krenzel made some solid throws in the title game, but to call him a consistent pocket quarterback is nothing short of being completely wrong.

Lastly, not to take anything away from our victory, we beat a team considered by many to be one of the greatest of all time and that game will forever be burned into my memory.
I'm not sure if I'm that "harsh" about Craig. Like you, I will forever remember that season and that final game. Craig had the heart of 2 lions and he was cool under pressure.

Having said all of that praise for Craig, one of my other lasting memories of Craig is the Holy Buckeye (who doesn't remember that). But one of my favorite parts of that memory is being online at home at the Ozone. That board was FULL of angry messages because of our offensive struggles. Craig was taking it harder online than he was in the game I think! In any event, immediately after Holy Buckeye, the first post I saw was titled:

Craig, you suck, We LOVE YOU!!!!!!
 
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billmac91;1138981; said:
Todd Boeckman had the highest effiency rating in the Big 10 and the most 40+ yard completions we've had since Tressel has been coach.

I guess I don't understand.

He also regressed huge in his last three games, and wasn't exactly rolling along against Wisconsin either. Now, Todd's a great guy and was deserving of the starting role last season and played extremely well for the first nine games...the potential is unquestionably there. However, when a QB regresses at the end of the year, it's usually very hard to regroup mentally for the next season. That's what scares the shit out of me. There have been lots of reports on how he looks confident so far this spring, but there's a huge difference between spring practices with the black jersey on and acutal game time with the opposing defense out to rip your head off.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1141673; said:
He also regressed huge in his last three games, and wasn't exactly rolling along against Wisconsin either. Now, Todd's a great guy and was deserving of the starting role last season and played extremely well for the first nine games...the potential is unquestionably there. However, when a QB regresses at the end of the year, it's usually very hard to regroup mentally for the next season. That's what scares the shit out of me. There have been lots of reports on how he looks confident so far this spring, but there's a huge difference between spring practices with the black jersey on and acutal game time with the opposing defense out to rip your head off.

I just don't think it's fair to paint Todd as a terrible QB for the last 3 games. He did struggle once it got cold and the weather was shitty. His decesion making was questionable and I'll grant you that. But people are so quick to dismiss the wind against Illinois and no QB(past, present, future) would have been successful in a freezing rain with WR's running on a slick field up in AA.

Keep in mind, if Ray makes a play most WR's make and Brian secures a perfect throw, Todd possibly becomes a National Championship QB rather than a goat.

It's possible Antonio or Joe are better QB's, but I'd rather give the QB who got us to a championship a year early, the opportunity to finish the job. If he looks shaky, by all means let someone else become Troy Smith. But Todd has proven way more than Justin Zwick ever did, and was even considered a Heisman choice at one point. The guy has great physical tools and a major advantage in experience. I think he is going to impress a lot of people next year.
 
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