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2008 tOSU Offensive Line discussion (official thread)

OregonBuckeye;1310040; said:
I agree he's been a disappointment considering his hype and potential but forgetting that for a sec, he's been a solid LT.

No, you don't "forget" about the hype a player like Boone had...we all expected him to be a consensus All-American and possibly one of the best to come through in a long time. Now, maybe a lot of his perceived lack of development falls on the coaching staff as much as it does on him.
 
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The O-line has been flat out terrible this year. There is no excuse. I can't comprehend how a 6'8" 300+lb tackle can let a DE go without even slowing him down. I agree that Bollman should go, but there is a route that would let him take another job, without him getting fired.
 
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generaladm;1310151; said:
The O-line has been flat out terrible this year. There is no excuse. I can't comprehend how a 6'8" 300+lb tackle can let a DE go without even slowing him down. I agree that Bollman should go, but there is a route that would let him take another job, without him getting fired.

Boone I don't think has the athletic ability to handle speed rushers
 
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Well, this week this thread has gotten MANY MANY more posts than it has any other time this year. I guess this tells you the reason we lost to Penn State. I love the Buckeyes. And dammit I love every one of those guys on the line. I've been a huge fan of all of them, especially the seniors. And it breaks my heart to see them struggle. But it's obvious they did. I feel badly for them.
 
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It is very uncomfortable for a Buckeye fan to read the kind of comments made in this thread. It's hard to not think that this Buckeye team has two hurdles to overcome in its remaining games and in the future.

The first hurdle concerns the unrealistic expectations of fans. How many teams have had the success that Ohio State has enjoyed in recent years? Once a feared powerhouse, Ohio State was a team that usually expected to lose to its main rival and any decent bowl competitor for a decade before Jim Tressel arrived.

Under Tressel, it has regained a lustre that it once enjoyed under Woody Hayes. In anyone's mention of the top teams of this century, Ohio State must rank among the top 5.

But, expectations have a funny way of affecting the way we feel about achievements, according to a stream of customer satisfaction research (i.e., expectancy-disconfirmation theory). When our expectations are exceeded, we feel satisfied. When they are met, we feel neutral. When expectations are not met, we feel dissatisfied.

Playing for a national championship requires not only good coaches, players, game plans, and execution, but also a lot of luck. Because no team can expect to play for the national championship year after year, a fanbase that expects nothing less will usually be dissatisfied and, at best, will feel that their team has only "achieved what they were supposed to achieve".

The second hurdle is a knock-on from the first. It concerns the effects on team morale of unrealistic expectations. Like some of the other older, crusty guys around here, I lived through the Woody Hayes era. Many of the Buckeye fans who hold Woody as a saint today are the same folks who talked him down when he was Ohio State's coach.

Look at Woody's record. How many times did he have a run like Tressel has had and how many times did he have consecutive years when Ohio State really was never in contention for the national championship? In any year when he had two or more losses, loudmouths all over Columbus were calling for his job.

This team includes a bunch of seniors who decided to come back to win a national championship. For reasons of coaching and their own preparation, they and their team were unprepared to seriously contest that national championship.

No doubt, not achieving their goals is at least partially due to the offensive and defensive schemes Ohio State has employed, which our opponents have said are predictable, but player execution also has been poor in many instances.

There are complex reasons for this. For instance, is it possible that the changes in strength and conditioning -- let's be honest, driven by a desire to keep up with Barwis -- also may explain at least some of the reasons why this team walked on the field lacking energy this year?

If you want to get better, you try new things. Sometimes, you get it wrong when you experiment. Sometimes, resource constraints (i.e., players) present you with a limited set of options that are not sufficient to achieve your goals. You cut your cloth to what is possible.

Whatever the reason for not achieving their goal of playing for a national championship, players don't need to hear and read discussions such as this all over Columbus. They get it. Their fans think that they are a failure.

Even though only one or two teams have achieved more in this decade, "trust the coaches" has become "fire the coaches." Their fans think that they are a failure.

So, what does all this mean?

For the coaches and players, it means taking a hard look at themselves and redouble their efforts now and during the off-season. The predictability of our offensive and defensive schemes must be revisited. Something special needs to be put away during the off-season for every big game next year. And if any Buckeye assistant coach does not have a plan to deliver, then Coach Tressel needs to give serious consideration to a replacement. Personally, I am not convinced either way (i.e., that Bollman, for instance, can't fix his own problem or that new blood would not help).

For Buckeye fans, it means it's time for a reality check. Just look around the country and remember what you've got here: one of the best teams in all of college football. These are kids playing football. Don't live out the frustrations of your life through them. Don't invest so much of your identity in them that you are unable to acknowledge that they are kids playing football.

I love this University and Buckeye sports and, guys, this destructive mode of discussion has gone on long enough. They have lost two games. Bigger events have happened during the same time. Let it go. The coaches and sports administrators are very well aware of the problems. Ohio State can still end up playing in a BCS bowl this year, with good performance and some luck. This can still be a good season. They'd love to have your support.
 
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Steve19;1310157; said:
It is very uncomfortable for a Buckeye fan to read the kind of comments made in this thread. It's hard to not think that this Buckeye team has two hurdles to overcome in its remaining games and in the future.

The first hurdle concerns the unrealistic expectations of fans. How many teams have had the success that Ohio State has enjoyed in recent years? Once a feared powerhouse, Ohio State was a team that usually expected to lose to its main rival and any decent bowl competitor for a decade before Jim Tressel arrived.

Under Tressel, it has regained a lustre that it once enjoyed under Woody Hayes. In anyone's mention of the top teams of this century, Ohio State must rank among the top 5.

But, expectations have a funny way of affecting the way we feel about achievements, according to a stream of customer satisfaction research (i.e., expectancy-disconfirmation theory). When our expectations are exceeded, we feel satisfied. When they are met, we feel neutral. When expectations are not met, we feel dissatisfied.

Playing for a national championship requires not only good coaches, players, game plans, and execution, but also a lot of luck. Because no team can expect to play for the national championship year after year, a fanbase that expects nothing less will usually be dissatisfied and, at best, will feel that their team has only "achieved what they were supposed to achieve".

The second hurdle is a knock-on from the first. It concerns the effects on team morale of unrealistic expectations. Like some of the other older, crusty guys around here, I lived through the Woody Hayes era. Many of the Buckeye fans who hold Woody as a saint today are the same folks who talked him down when he was Ohio State's coach.

Look at Woody's record. How many times did he have a run like Tressel has had and how many times did he have consecutive years when Ohio State really was never in contention for the national championship? In any year when he had two or more losses, loudmouths all over Columbus were calling for his job.

This team includes a bunch of seniors who decided to come back to win a national championship. For reasons of coaching and their own preparation, they and their team were unprepared to seriously contest that national championship.

No doubt, their insufficient preparation has to do with the offensive and defensive schemes Ohio State has employed, which our opponents have said are predictable, but player execution also has been poor in many instances.

There are complex reasons for this. For instance, is it possible that the changes in strength and conditioning -- let's be honest, driven by a desire to keep up with Barwis -- also may explain at least some of the reasons why this team walked on the field lacking energy this year?

If you want to get better, you try new things. Sometimes, you get it wrong when you experiment. Sometimes, resource constraints (i.e., players) present you with a limited set of options that are not sufficient to achieve your goals. You cut your cloth to what is possible.

Whatever the reason for not achieving their goal of playing for a national championship, players players don't need to hear and read discussions such as this all over Columbus. They get it. Their fans think that they are a failure.

Even though only one or two teams have achieved more in this decade, "trust the coaches" has become "fire the coaches." Their fans think that they are a failure.

So, what does all this mean?

For the coaches and players, it means taking a hard look at themselves and redouble their efforts now and during the off-season. The predictability of our offensive and defensive schemes must be revisited. Something special needs to be put away during the off-season for every big game next year. And if any Buckeye assistant coach does not have a plan to deliver, then Coach Tressel needs to give serious consideration to a replacement. Personally, I am not convinced either way (i.e., that Bollman, for instance, can't fix his own problem or that new blood would not help).

For Buckeye fans, it means it's time for a reality check. Just look around the country and remember what you've got here: one of the best teams in all of college football. These are kids playing football. Don't live out the frustrations of your life through them. Don't invest so much of your identity in them that you are unable to acknowledge that they are kids playing football.

I love this University and Buckeye sports and, guys, this destructive mode of discussion has gone on long enough. They have lost two games. Bigger events have happened during the same time. Let it go. The coaches and sports administrators are very well aware of the problems. Ohio State can still end up playing in a BCS bowl this year, with good performance and some luck. This can still be a good season. They'd love to have your support.

Assuming Penn State and USC go to BCS games our loses since 2005 are to teams that have played in BCS bowls including the last 3 national champions.
 
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Steve19;1310157; said:
It is very uncomfortable for a Buckeye fan to read the kind of comments made in this thread. It's hard to not think that this Buckeye team has two hurdles to overcome in its remaining games and in the future.

The first hurdle concerns the unrealistic expectations of fans. How many teams have had the success that Ohio State has enjoyed in recent years? Once a feared powerhouse, Ohio State was a team that usually expected to lose to its main rival and any decent bowl competitor for a decade before Jim Tressel arrived.

Under Tressel, it has regained a lustre that it once enjoyed under Woody Hayes. In anyone's mention of the top teams of this century, Ohio State must rank among the top 5.

But, expectations have a funny way of affecting the way we feel about achievements, according to a stream of customer satisfaction research (i.e., expectancy-disconfirmation theory). When our expectations are exceeded, we feel satisfied. When they are met, we feel neutral. When expectations are not met, we feel dissatisfied.

Playing for a national championship requires not only good coaches, players, game plans, and execution, but also a lot of luck. Because no team can expect to play for the national championship year after year, a fanbase that expects nothing less will usually be dissatisfied and, at best, will feel that their team has only "achieved what they were supposed to achieve".

The second hurdle is a knock-on from the first. It concerns the effects on team morale of unrealistic expectations. Like some of the other older, crusty guys around here, I lived through the Woody Hayes era. Many of the Buckeye fans who hold Woody as a saint today are the same folks who talked him down when he was Ohio State's coach.

Look at Woody's record. How many times did he have a run like Tressel has had and how many times did he have consecutive years when Ohio State really was never in contention for the national championship? In any year when he had two or more losses, loudmouths all over Columbus were calling for his job.

This team includes a bunch of seniors who decided to come back to win a national championship. For reasons of coaching and their own preparation, they and their team were unprepared to seriously contest that national championship.

No doubt, not achieving their goals is at least partially due to the offensive and defensive schemes Ohio State has employed, which our opponents have said are predictable, but player execution also has been poor in many instances.

There are complex reasons for this. For instance, is it possible that the changes in strength and conditioning -- let's be honest, driven by a desire to keep up with Barwis -- also may explain at least some of the reasons why this team walked on the field lacking energy this year?

If you want to get better, you try new things. Sometimes, you get it wrong when you experiment. Sometimes, resource constraints (i.e., players) present you with a limited set of options that are not sufficient to achieve your goals. You cut your cloth to what is possible.

Whatever the reason for not achieving their goal of playing for a national championship, players don't need to hear and read discussions such as this all over Columbus. They get it. Their fans think that they are a failure.

Even though only one or two teams have achieved more in this decade, "trust the coaches" has become "fire the coaches." Their fans think that they are a failure.

So, what does all this mean?

For the coaches and players, it means taking a hard look at themselves and redouble their efforts now and during the off-season. The predictability of our offensive and defensive schemes must be revisited. Something special needs to be put away during the off-season for every big game next year. And if any Buckeye assistant coach does not have a plan to deliver, then Coach Tressel needs to give serious consideration to a replacement. Personally, I am not convinced either way (i.e., that Bollman, for instance, can't fix his own problem or that new blood would not help).

For Buckeye fans, it means it's time for a reality check. Just look around the country and remember what you've got here: one of the best teams in all of college football. These are kids playing football. Don't live out the frustrations of your life through them. Don't invest so much of your identity in them that you are unable to acknowledge that they are kids playing football.

I love this University and Buckeye sports and, guys, this destructive mode of discussion has gone on long enough. They have lost two games. Bigger events have happened during the same time. Let it go. The coaches and sports administrators are very well aware of the problems. Ohio State can still end up playing in a BCS bowl this year, with good performance and some luck. This can still be a good season. They'd love to have your support.
GPA! GPA!
 
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LordJeffBuck;1306501; said:
1) 11) I am convinced that several players on this team "mailed in" the season from day one. Fortunately, they'll all be gone next year. No names, please, but I am not referring to Jenkins, Laurinaitis, or Boeckman........
Other than Jenkins and JL, I don't see many other seniors on the defensive side of the ball and there are quite a few seniors on the OL so LJB might be saying something and then again maybe not. This is pure conjecture on my part.
 
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Just wanted to give the line props, there were a few missed blocks here and there, which is to be expeted, but they did open up some nice holes for Beanie and gave Pyor time to throw most of the time. Now let's just hope they can keep it up. Does anyone know if Shugarts got any snaps?
 
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OState29;1320813; said:
Just wanted to give the line props, there were a few missed blocks here and there, which is to be expeted, but they did open up some nice holes for Beanie and gave Pyor time to throw most of the time. Now let's just hope they can keep it up. Does anyone know if Shugarts got any snaps?

Looked like early in the game, NW had watched enough film to predict play calling and how to shut down the offensive tendencies. They stacked 7 or 8 on the line and were successful with penetration. Their penetration also caused enough confusion to neutralize the OL zone blocking.
But ultimately bringing 7 or 8 exposed the D for some long runs.
The early OL blocking confusion seemed to get resolved and later play calling combined with D fatigue saw less penetration and more seams.
The clear momentum shift Saturday came on Beanie's 55 yd TD, it was all Beanie. He should have been stopped for a 2 or 3 yd loss, but stayed alive and found a cut back seam and took it to the house.
The official game participation report included Shuggarts, J. B., though like you I cannot remember seeing him on the field.
 
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gracelhink;1320951; said:
But ultimately bringing 7 or 8 exposed the D for some long runs.
The early OL blocking confusion seemed to get resolved and later play calling combined with D fatigue saw less penetration and more seams.
The clear momentum shift Saturday came on Beanie's 55 yd TD, it was all Beanie. He should have been stopped for a 2 or 3 yd loss, but stayed alive and found a cut back seam and took it to the house.

I agree with this. Early on, NW was stacking the box and blowing up the run game. Beanie's long TD was due to his ability more so than the offensive line executing well--90% of NCAA running backs would have been dropped for a three yard loss on that play. In the second half, the running game worked better due to (1) the NW defense wearing down and (2) OSU throwing the ball a little more to keep NW's defense honest.
 
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Sorry, but the O line was AWFUL (again) on Saturday. Beanie bailed them out and Terrelle bailed them out by being able to run and throw (even with N'Western defenders draped all over him).

If it takes a back like Beanie to make the O line function then Ohio State is in serious trouble next year and in future years.

Herbstriet and Spielman both were all over the line today on the radio.

Herby I take with a grain of salt because he's usually over the top. He used words like "pathetic" and "soft." He also ripped Boone a new one for the late hit. Along the lines of "that's as hard as he's hit anyone all year." I actually feel he was not out of line with these comments today.

Spielman I take more seriously and he had this to say: The line of scrimmage never moves with Ohio State's line. It either stays where it is or it moves backwards. That's the truth.

Whether it's the coaching or the players something needs to change and quick. Beanie is going to be gone soon and so is Ohio State's running game.
 
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Rehring got blown-the-fuck-up more than once. Boone's bone-headed personal foul was, unfortunately, not much of a shock coming from him. These guys are fucking seniors, but they seldom play like it. It's really a crying shame that we can't be singing their praises but are instead counting the days until their eligibility is gone. Even Nicol whiffed on a block which led to a 5-yard loss (second-and-four run in the red zone two plays before our FG).

Hopefully the addition of Boren and a healthy Shugarts and Adams next season will energize the line. But, it seems we've rubbing that lamp at the end of every season...
 
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It's really a crying shame that we can't be singing their praises but are instead counting the days until their eligibility is gone.
indeed :(
Hopefully the addition of Boren and a healthy Shugarts and Adams next season will energize the line. But, it seems we've rubbing that lamp at the end of every season...
I understand the guarded optimism, but I'm looking forward to a lot tougher unit next year. LT is always tough to replace, but how often have you seen Boone, Rehring or Person play with the fire that Brewster shows as a frosh?

There will be mistakes, but hopefully we'll get a stark upgrade in how they approach and play the game. Brewster, Boren, Shugarts and others should hopefully bring that in spades.
 
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actually soft and honestly, un-aggressive is/are the term(s) I'd use for this offensive line.

Instead of going out to attack the defenders, they just try to get in the way. If the defender is bull rushing or speed rushing, they will win more often than not unless the OSU lineman finds a way to delay the defender until the play has moved along.


I personally think it's the coaching philosophy, not necessarily the coaches themselves. I think the mindset has to change for one and they have to attack as a scheme.....
 
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