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2007 TSUN News

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NFBuck;1124013; said:
Yikes. What does our UM contingent think of this?
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Not too hard to guess. Of course, it's bad news. Always is when a potential starter leaves.

It is, however, not exactly cataclysmic. The offensive line is different than every other unit on the team. One really good player (say, one really good wide receiver or linebacker) can do a lot to cover up the deficiencies of the others by making plays. One really good offensive lineman does not help, because the rest of them are still going to get trampled and you can't run your offense.

So, actually very little has changed. Before Boren left it was on Schilling, Ortmann, etc. to step up and perform like starters, otherwise the offense was going to go nowhere. Now, it's still on those guys to perform, same as it was before. If they step up and play well, then it will be on Boren's replacement to do the same, else be the weak link in an otherwise strong line. If they don't? Then Justin Boren would not have made a lick of difference.

Bottom line: The offensive line was the weak link and the huge question mark in this offense before and it's the weak link and huge question mark in the offense now. The loss of Boren, counterintuitively, really doesn't make it any more contingent on the rest of the line to play well, because they were already the make-or-break unit on this team.
 
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I see your logic, and it seems sound. What about the psychological effects, though? I can't imagine this is helping morale at all, with the two guys tabbed to lead the offense this year (Boren and Mallet) both leaving the program. It would also seem to bode an ill wind for the recruitment of Zach Boren, who was apparently leaning toward OSU over TSUN in the first place. This may have a wider effect than just the play of the offensive line.
 
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HailToMichigan;1124081; said:
Not too hard to guess. Of course, it's bad news. Always is when a potential starter leaves.

It is, however, not exactly cataclysmic. The offensive line is different than every other unit on the team. One really good player (say, one really good wide receiver or linebacker) can do a lot to cover up the deficiencies of the others by making plays. One really good offensive lineman does not help, because the rest of them are still going to get trampled and you can't run your offense.

So, actually very little has changed. Before Boren left it was on Schilling, Ortmann, etc. to step up and perform like starters, otherwise the offense was going to go nowhere. Now, it's still on those guys to perform, same as it was before. If they step up and play well, then it will be on Boren's replacement to do the same, else be the weak link in an otherwise strong line. If they don't? Then Justin Boren would not have made a lick of difference.

Bottom line: The offensive line was the weak link and the huge question mark in this offense before and it's the weak link and huge question mark in the offense now. The loss of Boren, counterintuitively, really doesn't make it any more contingent on the rest of the line to play well, because they were already the make-or-break unit on this team.
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Pretty much the main response I was expecting.

sandgk;1124085; said:
So, things are thinner now on the O-line than they were before - but that's OK, we were already thinning on top?
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It would seem :lol:
I know if tOSU was trying to impliment a radically different offensive scheme, losing our best offensive lineman would have me pretty damn concerned.
 
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HTM, I think you're oversimplifying things a bit. If you were simply accepting ineptitude up front, then you can argue that lousy and awful are hard to tell apart as a result of this departure.

But if there was hope for decent to good play, even just in spurts... this puts a gigantic roadblock in that path.

A brand new LT, when UM can't really field a true RT... and a redshirt freshman center... now get to play alongside another brand new starter, possibly a true freshman. That's a noticeable difference from lining up alongside a veteran and reported leader.
 
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HailToMichigan;1124081; said:
Not too hard to guess. Of course, it's bad news. Always is when a potential starter leaves.

It is, however, not exactly cataclysmic. The offensive line is different than every other unit on the team. One really good player (say, one really good wide receiver or linebacker) can do a lot to cover up the deficiencies of the others by making plays. One really good offensive lineman does not help, because the rest of them are still going to get trampled and you can't run your offense.

So, actually very little has changed. Before Boren left it was on Schilling, Ortmann, etc. to step up and perform like starters, otherwise the offense was going to go nowhere. Now, it's still on those guys to perform, same as it was before. If they step up and play well, then it will be on Boren's replacement to do the same, else be the weak link in an otherwise strong line. If they don't? Then Justin Boren would not have made a lick of difference.

Bottom line: The offensive line was the weak link and the huge question mark in this offense before and it's the weak link and huge question mark in the offense now. The loss of Boren, counterintuitively, really doesn't make it any more contingent on the rest of the line to play well, because they were already the make-or-break unit on this team.
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:yow2:
 
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SNIPER26;1123701; said:
Apparently so, but it still remains that Meatchicken is by far, without a doubt, the dumbest insult for any school I have ever heard. I mean, I can see scUM, TSUN, whatever, but Meatchicken? Really?????
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Yeah, Meatchicken. Just as some folk seem to pronounce the name of the "Cesspool of the West". From my perspective, they are all good. From Ann Arbor is a whore to Meat to Cesspool of the West. They are all winners in that they describe the enemy. It's all in good fun and I enjoy them all equally.
 
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jwinslow;1124104; said:
HTM, I think you're oversimplifying things a bit. If you were simply accepting ineptitude up front, then you can argue that lousy and awful are hard to tell apart as a result of this departure.

But if there was hope for decent to good play, even just in spurts... this puts a gigantic roadblock in that path.

A brand new LT, when UM can't really field a true RT... and a redshirt freshman center... now get to play alongside another brand new starter, possibly a true freshman. That's a noticeable difference from lining up alongside a veteran and reported leader.
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The intangibles are a good point. I have no idea what kind of leadership Boren provided or was expected to provide for the line.

Still, I stand by what I said. There is no difference between four lousy offensive linemen and five lousy offensive linemen. (Though it's fair to wonder if Boren's departure means it's more likely we end up with lousy lineman than good ones.) Remember though, I have a wee bit more faith in the coaching staff than you guys do. I trust them to have something figured out when it comes to teaching somebody to step up.
 
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Piss-again Wolver-streams was one I heard awhile back.

Anyway, the depth at Oline has to be a concern. I posted in the Boren thread that I wonder how this will affect a couple of recruiting "wars" OSU is in with Michigan. Watt and Hall come to mind immedietly. Freeman maybe down the line.
 
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HailToMichigan;1124139; said:
The intangibles are a good point. I have no idea what kind of leadership Boren provided or was expected to provide for the line.

Still, I stand by what I said. There is no difference between four lousy offensive linemen and five lousy offensive linemen. (Though it's fair to wonder if Boren's departure means it's more likely we end up with lousy lineman than good ones.) Remember though, I have a wee bit more faith in the coaching staff than you guys do. I trust them to have something figured out when it comes to teaching somebody to step up.
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The real "pain" is if Boren walks on at OSU for reasons Jwin outlined in the Boren thread. The consequences as it regards Michigan's 08 O line are probably like you say - what's the difference between 4 lousy linemen and 5? But, the consequences for recruiting could be severe - especially if Boren were to come to OSU and earn a starting job after sitting a year.

Edit: Not sure that I worded the first sentence real well. I mean, Jwin outlined the potential impact well in the Boren thread, not that Jwin outlined reasons why Boren would walk on at OSU.
 
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I'll certainly credit HTM with this - he has the class to come on here and paint a glass half-full picture while acknowledging the loss of their best returning player on O-line.

Which puts him streets ahead of the folks, calling Boren soft as teddy-bear, Oh8ch was talking about on the UM message boards.
 
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