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Zwick vs. Smith (official thread)

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jwinslow said:
I guess that's the question. You hate to take the ball out of the hands of your QB, but do you see more hail mary's or onsides kicks recovered? You also have to factor in getting out of bounds on that hail mary, which makes it even less probable.

Looking for insight. I agree it would seem like an asanine call. I don't know that i would call for a safety as a coach.
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One decent gainer makes up for the onside kick starting position. I played in a game once where we recovered 2 or 3 onside kicks in a row to come back, but besides that freak day I haven't seen too many recovered. I would feel better having the QB gun a couple 20 yard gainers to move out to the 40 than to take the safety and hope for the onside kick against the #2 team in the nation. JT wouldn't tell a QB to take the safety just like he didn't tell the defense to let Texas score a TD to save time on the clock.
 
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If you're implying Zwick has been critiqued harder, I'd say that evened out after saturday.

I think I got put back in my place. I'd go back and play with my legos, but I don't have any. :sad2:
 
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exhawg said:
How do you not have Legos? I still have all of mine at my parents house waiting for hawg jr. :p
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I have them waiting at home for later, but 1) it's in MI 2) I'm lazy 3) my parents are in africa. Plus what's important is that I don't have them now, otherwise I could spraypaint them and try to build one of those Ohio Stadiums out of legos :)
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
i think we're straying a bit here. a previous poster intended to place some blame on smith for the safety. of course, smith was responsible for the safety, as was the line, but smith had practically no room to run and was placed in a dire situation. by no means am i going to blame smith and the safety for the loss to texas. between smith's safety and zwick's fumble, clearly the worse mistake was zwick's fumble. i'm sure that we would have no debate about that.
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Bear with me - still straying here.
So all the quarterbacks, in all of college football, in all the years they've been playing; and the thousands of times starting a drive inside their five yard line. Situation: Dire!
Why is it that less than one percent end up in safeties?
 
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MightbeaBuck said:
Bear with me - still straying here.
So all the quarterbacks, in all of college football, in all the years they've been playing; and the thousands of times starting a drive inside their five yard line. Situation: Dire!
Why is it that less than one percent end up in safeties?
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1) If it's gonna be a negative critique, at least make the statistics accurate. Starting inside your 1 is a lot different than starting inside the 5. I would bet there are a ton more safeties starting from your 1.

2) I doubt it happens often, but on the 1 it is not surprising to see a safety, and i would say something that happens less than 1 out of 100 times is very surprising.

3) you don't pass when you are on the 1

4) If you do you throw a quick pass, which wasn't an option given our time constraint. we needed a big pass.
 
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MightbeaBuck said:
Bear with me - still straying here.
So all the quarterbacks, in all of college football, in all the years they've been playing; and the thousands of times starting a drive inside their five yard line. Situation: Dire!
Why is it that less than one percent end up in safeties?
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of course it was a "dire" situation, as i regarded it. one definition of "dire" is 'urgent; desperate.' don't you think that the situation smith found himself in (needing to drive at least 65 yards with his butt on the goal line and very little time left) was urgent and desperate? of course it was dire.

comparing smith's situation to the other situations that start inside the 5-yard line is unfair to smith. how many of those other drives that start within the 5-yard line are drives with so little time left and in need of a field goal? usually a team is content to progress the ball far enough to give the punter room, and, therefore, the plays that are called vary greatly from the one that was called for ohio state.
 
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1) If it's gonna be a negative critique, at least make the statistics accurate. Starting inside your 1 is a lot different than starting inside the 5. I would bet there are a ton more safeties starting from your 1.
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Not trying to be anymore negative than anyone else:! .
I read that stat somewhere last year, it only said inside the five, but it would be interesting to know what the odds are from the one yard line on in (to the quarter inch line.) And / or when the team is down with less than a minute to play.
And I'm not blaming Smith!!!
(I'm blaming Texas...)
 
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:osu: I hope the Buckeyes can figure out a way to improve their offense and win out. It would be nice if TS was a bit taller. I just don't want to see this turn into another year and a half of Bellisorry-type QB play. Not that he was that sorry of a QB but with ND and PSU having a better season than in the past, it is important to do well for many reasons but especially recruiting - not just to land the best athletes but the best of what you need. I think it would be disruptive to change QB, at this time...I'm just hopeful it develops in the right direction...as we all are
 
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In defense of Smith, that was the first time he played in those types of conditions: Wet conditions in front of a 100k+ hostile crowd with a jumbled OL. I thin if the weather was better and Barton didn't get hurt, things would've been at least a little different. He made some mistakes and made some good plays. He did seem to be waiting too long before pulling it down to run, but the times he had a lot of time to go through his progressions were few. He does need to improve his downfield vision, but his mobility is an ace in the hole.

I doubt Zwick would've done any better but I also doubt he would've done any worse. He probably would've found and hit several more receivers downfield than Smith did, but if Smith got sacked five times you can imagine how times Zwick would've been sacked. If we had put Zwick in and he failed to rally us to the tying TD, folks would been screaming that we should've left Smith in. You can't please anyone it seems.

We need to have an established QB...that won't happen if we flip-flop them every time one has a sub-par game. Neither Zwick nor Smith have a full season's worth of experience yet, so whether we like it or not, they're still learning the ropes. Right now, Smith is our QB and a tough game at a tough venue under tough conditions shouldn't be the reason to bench him. I personally would like to see Boeckman given a full half to see what he could do, but I understand that we need to stick with Smith.
 
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thanks buckguy. that picture is worth a thousand words if you ask me. mightbe, no harsh feelings man. Good debate.

I just watched the first half of the texas game (just now finished d/ling and burning), and let me tell you, none of the above criticisms of Smith apply during that half. He was poised, made great throws, including Zwick-esque quick hitters, a great deep ball to Holmes, and some good scramble throws (which are his trademark, we need to see more of those). One time he got spun around by a DE and threw an awful ball taht should have been picked. And one time inside the 5 we did not call plays that got anyone open, and so he tried to force the ball a few times. That near INT was right at the beginning IIRC, and the forces were the end. Throughout the entire half he was making great throws and looked Zwick-esque in terms of quick reads and distributing the ball to everyone.

I think people have short memories. Smith is not as bad as he played at PSU. He's not as good as he played vs. Michigan. However, in the first half, albeit at home, against a great defense, he played very well as a QB.

Also, Zwick was perfect in his passes. However, when the line broke down, he tried to scramble but was too lumbersome to get to the first down marker. Against Miami he picked up those first downs.
 
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GB3 said:
I dont post much here simply because most already know what is best for the Buckeyes...

Anyways, figure Id throw my .02 cents in...

Im not positve...but Has TS won a road game yet?

I think if JZ woulda had 3 quarters like TS did against Penn St he would gotten yanked pretty quick.
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He has, Wisconsin and Iowa last year, he wasnt benched for Wisonsin, and he wouldnt have been against Iowa had he not been hurt.

JZ has done nothing but do what is expected of him, been a team player threw the 2 benchings in favor of TS, who has broken numerous rules..
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Cant argue here, he has been a team player.
I guess if TS is ithe answer I think were asking the wrong question...
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Again, I think we are having the wrong discussion. Any quaterback would struggle with the time that our offensive line gives them.
BTW tOSU did win a National Championship without a running QB or the spread Offense. A QB has to throw the ball first, mobility is a plus, a big plus these days, but a good defense will limit that aspect as Penn St did against us and as the Bucks did against UT and Vince Young. Bad thing is we found out Young can throw pretty good also. Maybe he can steal the Heisman from Leinart so Ole 45 can remain the only 2 time winner :biggrin:
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Again, we are just seeing the grass is always greener on the other side. What games has Zwick done well in? Miami U, and Okie State. What games did Troy do well in? Iowa, and scUM. What do all these teams have in common??? Their defenses all suck. Both QB's played against Texas, both struggled. So tell me why you think we should make the destructive move of switching QB's again?? I think it would be better to switch O-line coaches.
 
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