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Zach & Dawand?

Discussion in 'Buckeye Football' started by cdiddy70, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:41 AM.

  1. billmac91

    billmac91 Senior

    I like the idea but think Harrison stays at DE while JT is the one who kicks inside on pass rushing downs. I don’t think Harrison has enough power leverage to take on the inside of an o-line. JT could make a living there though.
     
    Thump, Jaxbuck, Go Bucks!!! and 3 others like this.
  2. Buckeye86

    Buckeye86 I do not choose to discuss it

    I feel like he might be best in the stacked DE role just shooting predetermined gaps on what are basically blitzes (which is something Knowles likes to do with a DE from what I understand of his scheme).

    Let him be big and fast without making him think, and also confuse the DL pre snap while you’re at it.

    There are a few players who seem like they would excel in this role, with Cade Stover being another one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022 at 7:51 AM
  3. pnuts34

    pnuts34 Drunk off of wolverine tears

    Its interesting how both of these guys are projects, but Jones' progression has definitely gone in a positive direction, while Harrison has become stagnant.
    At this point I'd be happy to have both back to see how they can perform with new coaches in new systems. But I believe Harrison is more of a situational pass rusher, who should be reserved for mainly passing downs. And unleash him on QBs. But Harrison at this point should not be a starting DE, he should be competing against Sawyer and JT for PT. And be used more for depth along with JJB, Potter and Friday, and even the incoming frosh.
    Jones could come back and be a surefire 1st round lottery pick next season. He can be that good if he refines his game and balances being better in the run game along with the pass game. I think he used his size too much at times, instead of technique, and it's easy to do that when you're the biggest guy on the field most times. But against elite DEs, they could get around or neutralize Jones. Jones reminds me(and many others) of Mekhi Becton that was also 3star project, who ended up turning himself into a 1st round lottery pick
     
    ScriptOhio likes this.
  4. ScriptOhio

    ScriptOhio Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

    Just sayin': Maybe he turned into one; but Zach Harrison definitely didn't come in as a project. He was top rated 5 star (0.9933) recruit and the highest rated guy in Ohio State's 2019 recruiting class.

    https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Season/2019-Football/Commits/

    H.S. Scouting Report

    Extremely long defender with big joints that wears 245 pounds naturally. Young for his grade and will bulk up to 275 pounds with ease. Archetype, hand-down defensive end frame. Generational testing numbers at his size. Athletic versatility to play wide receiver. Uses hands effectively to read and shed in the run game. Eats up space in zone read game. Possesses twitch and suddenness and can bend the edge as a pass rusher. Speed in pursuit is elite. Very raw as a pass rusher. Still learning to use his hands and developing pass rush instincts. Doesn’t yet dominate the way his physical traits dictate he should. Potential No. 1 overall pick in the NFL Draft and definite impact Power 5 defender.

    https://247sports.com/Player/Zach-Harrison-46035767/
     
  5. buchtelgrad04

    buchtelgrad04 Pain is an opinion.

    3 of the last 4 sentences tell you he was a project.
     
    pnuts34 likes this.
  6. pnuts34

    pnuts34 Drunk off of wolverine tears

    You are contradicting yourself, and the report says as much, as @buchtelgrad04 pointed out.
    Harrison came to OSU definitely as a project. And his high ranking was due to his measurables, camp numbers and possibility for his upside. If someone told you they had a HS senior who was 6'5 250lb DE, who also competed in track & field... as a SPRINTER, and also was the teams WR/TE, you envision a freak athlete. But then you peel back the layers, and see a kid who never learned technique and was just bigger and faster than anyone he played. Guys like Bosas and Young worked even harder when they hit college, and it doesn't seem like Harrison is doing the same. Or the light isn't going off for him, as he needed at least 1-2yrs to even reach his potential. He's now a senior with the same great numbers, but no on field production.
     
  7. ScriptOhio

    ScriptOhio Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

    Maybe Harrison isn't developing like the Bosas or Chase Young did and/or his development could be slowed because he is just not working hard enough. Regardless, I just don't consider a 5-star recruit who is the #12 ranked guy in the country a project. The 24/7 high school scouting reports show areas they feel the recut should or needs to improve on for everybody. That's just what they do, no high school player comes into college with everything needed to be a 1st round round draft pick.

    Here are the other two 5 stars in that class:

    Garrett Wilson
    Not the biggest receiver, but plays bigger than listed size thanks to good athleticism and above average bulk relative to frame. Strong-handed wideout who plucks the ball consistently. Dangerous in the vertical game. Stretches the field with initial burst and above-average downfield speed. Very good route-runner. Can line up in multiple spots. High-level performer in games, elite camps, and school 7-on-7 competition. Provides both chain-moving possession consistency and big-play ability. Excellent body control and adjustment ability. Makes routine plays and highlight-reel grabs. Needs to add weight and strength to combat larger defenders at the next level. Polished to the point that it could ultimately limit ceiling. He'll be an early college contributor and could be a second-day NFL draft selection.

    Harry Miller
    Solid, barrel-chested build with little bad weight. Is developed from a weight-room and strength standpoint. Possesses average athleticism and length. Plays left tackle in high school but projects on the interior at the next level. Strong run blocker who plays with a nasty disposition. Does a great job getting a push in the run game and has a knack for finishing blocks. Heavy-handed and has pop at the point of attack. Shows outstanding strength once engaged with a defender. Can continue improving his footwork both in pass protection and working to the second level as run blocker. Can also stand to increase flexibility. Projects as a multi-year Power 5 starter and Day 2 NFL Draft selection.

    Would you consider them projects too?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022 at 8:47 AM
  8. buchtelgrad04

    buchtelgrad04 Pain is an opinion.

    His ranking doesn’t tell the entire story. Any recruiting analyst that watched him during his recruitment, all said that he was ranked that high based on physical traits. Not actually for production. It was widely known that Zach was raw and was a bit of project. Just go back and read the early tweets in his thread. Or read reviews of him from the All-American game.
     
    pnuts34 likes this.
  9. Onebuckfan

    Onebuckfan classof76

    Jones is going to have a new voice in his ear and he wasn’t the 5 star Harrison was so I think he can improve a lot. Harrison less optimistic..Johnson may need to have the DC have a heart to heart with Zach to see if Harrison is willing to do what it takes before he becomes a rotational player not a top d draft pick.
     
  10. ShowMeBuck

    ShowMeBuck You know what? Chicken butt.

    Rankings are not based entirely on where an athlete is at during his HS years. That partly factors in but it’s more so a guess of where they will go in the NFL draft someday.

    So, with 247 sports I believe they have 32 players as 5 stars due to that many spots in the first round. Therefore giving a kid a 5 star is projecting where they get drafted.

    In the case of Harrison he didn’t dominate in HS like others did. He had freakish measurables which could translate to being a first rounder but so far he hasn’t been able to take that talent and be productive with it. 5 stars can absolutely be projects and Harrison is a perfect example of that.

    Take the NBA draft as an example….when the Greek Freak was drafted most people had no clue who he was and if you look at pictures of him as a rookie compared to today it’s like a completely different player.

    Harrison still hasn’t come close to being able to take his natural talents and translate that into production. If I’m in his shoes and I see the situation in front of me with a new scheme being installed then I’d definitely stick around and hopefully find a way to put some good production on film. It’s a no brainer.
     
  11. Onebuckfan

    Onebuckfan classof76

    Harrison was projected as a top 20 draft pick as late as last September. In theory evaluating Harrison in September 2021 should be easier than as a Senior in HS. Why was Harrison in the top 20 in September? Why did his draft status drop? Was it scheme coaching production or attitude/ practice habits?
     
  12. Jaxbuck

    Jaxbuck I hate tsun ‘18 Fantasy Baseball Champ

    Regardless of how anyone interprets this; it'd pretty spot on, imo, except the twitch part. I just don't see that on the field.

    Pursuit speed is elite, doesn't use hands well or dominate like his measurables say he should, carrys 275 easy...all dead on the money.

    Definite P5 impact defender is a swing and a miss (so far). #1 draft pick isn't going to happen without a multi-light year type of jump forward in '22.
     
  13. billmac91

    billmac91 Senior

    The way it reads and the way he plays, you almost wonder if he should’ve played TE…..I don’t mean that as a knock on him, but there just isn’t that violent aggression you prefer to see in a DE.
     
    brodybuck21 and Jaxbuck like this.
  14. Jaxbuck

    Jaxbuck I hate tsun ‘18 Fantasy Baseball Champ

    That's a great point.
     
    Onebuckfan likes this.
  15. Buckeye86

    Buckeye86 I do not choose to discuss it

    And I say this not at all as a joke, I think his strong interest in UM was a serious red flag for this exact concern.
     
    brodybuck21 likes this.

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