What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[sparcboxbuck]

I hate him.. I have to hate him
but Lemarcus Joyner was awesome

Not so much hate for the kid, but the hanger-on was a red flag. That was a package deal that could have gone south in a hurry. It all ended for the best in my mind.

 

[pnuts34]

Unfortunately, the players we had on those defenses of the past are all gone, now. We need young talent to come in and develop, and until then, we have to make due with what we have. I expect Urban to recruit some DBs in the next few classes.

You mean like eli apple, cam burrows, vonn bell, gareon conley, jayme thompson, chris worley, damon webb, malik hooker, possibly marshon lattimore, Erick smith and mike rogers or juju smith? Its not like the coaches aren't trying... but it'll take a few years to know if they pan out

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

I've been looking for a way to pin this issue on the Chinaman, but so far no luck...

 

[OSUK]

Last year they were bad until they played a fullback at MLB and then it came together. There was more to it than that, but whatever the move is that needs to be made, let's hope they do it this week. Is Zach Boren available? :)

 

[rock454]

Last year they were bad until they played a fullback at MLB and then it came together. There was more to it than that, but whatever the move is that needs to be made, let's hope they do it this week. Is Zach Boren available? :)

This is why I think there's more to do with personnel. By making this one move last year and putting Boren's leadership on defense, the defense improved immensely. Who is the leader of the defense now? I know Shazier is the best player, but is he managing the defense on the field? I don't know anymore than what I see on tv, but I don't know that there's a game manager on that side of the ball like we've had with dominant defenses in the past.

 

[Woody1968]

This is why I think there's more to do with personnel. By making this one move last year and putting Boren's leadership on defense, the defense improved immensely. Who is the leader of the defense now? I know Shazier is the best player, but is he managing the defense on the field? I don't know anymore than what I see on tv, but I don't know that there's a game manager on that side of the ball like we've had with dominant defenses in the past.

Bryant was the leader.

 

[Woody1968]

I've been looking for a way to pin this issue on the Chinaman, but so far no luck...

Neither the issue, nor the preferred nomenclature

 

[Dryden]

This is why I think there's more to do with personnel. By making this one move last year and putting Boren's leadership on defense, the defense improved immensely. Who is the leader of the defense now? I know Shazier is the best player, but is he managing the defense on the field? I don't know anymore than what I see on tv, but I don't know that there's a game manager on that side of the ball like we've had with dominant defenses in the past.

Sounds like one of those ads you read on the Web:

Find out how Ohio State coaches used this one weird trick to fix their defense!

 

[Wadcutter]

TTFWIW as I got this second hand. Was sitting beside a guy at the Iowa game who was talking on a phone to a friend of his who was sitting somewhere close enough to the field to hear some interaction between Meyer and Shazier after the team came onto the field just before the start of the 2nd half. Supposedly Meyer tells Shazier that this game is the defense's to win or lose now go out and do one or the other. He also tells Shazier that he expects someone on defense to step up and be a leader. If this is close to being accurate then that tells me what part of the problem is on the defensive side of the ball. Don't think it is the only thing, may not be the biggest problem but it appears that we may be having some of the same issues as the 2012 defense pre-Boren.

 

[OHSportsFan]

Good point. You can also add LB Scott McVey and DE Jamel Turner from the 2010 class, both of whom were very highly ranked recruits.


An interesting point about the communication, or lack thereof. I wonder what the coaching staff would say about this (in a private moment, of course).


And yet the defense has already (through seven games) given up 8 plays of 30+ yards (all passes), including 4 plays of 60+ yards, with a long of 85 yards.

By comparison, the 2010 defense (in thirteen games) gave up only 9 plays of 30+ yards, with a long of 42 yards.

In the poll, I added option number four (B1G offenses are unstoppable) sort of as a joke, but college football has definitely changed in the past few years. In 133 games from 2005 to 2010, the Buckeyes defense gave up an average of 13.6 points per game; gave up 30+ points only 6 times (7.8%); and held their opponent to less than 10 points 31 times (40.3%).

But since 2010, many college football teams are following the Oregon model and employing an uptempo offense - this means more plays, which usually means more points for both teams. In addition, teams are passing more - this means more clock stoppages with incompletions, sideline completions, and more frequent first downs. Finally changes in rules (and rule interpretations) have helped offenses and hindered defenses - fewer holding calls, more pass interference calls, the targeting rule.

One more thing to consider: A team like Indiana is never going to be able to field a championship-level 85-man roster. But even the Hoosiers can sign enough talent to have one solid unit, and if you're going to overload one side of the ball, it might as well be the offense because (a) you will keep your fans interested, (b) you will get more media attention, (c) you will be able to sell your program to recruits who want to put up big numbers, and most importantly (d) you might actually be able to record a major upset by outscoring your opponent in a shoot out (witness Indiana's near miss against Ohio State last season and against Michigan this season).

So while there may not be any truly high-powered offenses in the B1G outside of Ohio State, it is definitely more difficult to shut down even an average offense due to changes in offensive philosophies, combined with rule changes that favor the offense. Take out the Florida A+M rout, and Ohio State is still giving up only 23.2 points per game against FBS competition, which may not be all that bad under the current circumstances.

Thought about the more plays thing, LJB. I know we have to accept that 20 points is the new 10 points. Hate it, but starting to shift my brain.

But, relative to everyone else, I've got Ohio State at 31st* in Yards Per Play allowed at 5.07. Considering the opponents, I'm not feeling great about that.

*NCAA.com's statistics page is sub-par, to say the least. Copy and pasted the tables they had and sorted in Excel. Could be user error involved here, folks.

 

[chillinvillian]

Its funny a lot of people are calling for LF to go but don't realize that if LF goes so does Vrabel.

 

[buckeyebri]

Its funny a lot of people are calling for LF to go but don't realize that if LF goes so does Vrabel.

I don't see a lot of people calling for Fick to be gone. I think people are expecting changes in the off season if things don't get better. That doesn't necessarily equate to Fick being gone.

 

[NastyNatiBuck]

Try putting a LB on a TE to at least disrupt his route. The CB would have primary coverage after the LB released him. I did not suggest putting a DE on a WR but if he could. prevent that TE from getting off the line of scrimmage it might not be a bad idea.

I know. Watch the play again. Noah Spence was covering him.

 

[kujirakira]

I did not say anything of the sort. I said that the linebackers we have are better at stopping the run than defending the pass. Some linebackers are better at defending the run, some are better defending the pass, and some do both well. Not sure why this needs explanation.

I doubt very many players are recruited to be 1-dimensional liabilities.
The Linebacker position involves dropping into coverage at a respectable competency, even if it's not their "specialty"
Carpenter, Hawk, and Schlegel were all better suited to stopping the run as well -- but they could perform their duties in coverage to a sufficient degree as well.
Your posts thus far have made it abundantly clear that you believe the LBs should have no expectations put upon them regarding this facet of their role in the defense.
The fact remains that a large part of the issue with our pass defense starts with the Linebackers.

Speaking of Spence covering a TE - I almost wonder if the repeated use of a DE in coverage isn't b/c the defensive staff have realized how weak the LBs are in coverage; thus continually dropping Spence into coverage as a move of desperation in an attempt to help shore up that weakness.

 

[Woody1968]

I doubt very many players are recruited to be 1-dimensional liabilities.
The Linebacker position involves dropping into coverage at a respectable competency, even if it's not their "specialty"
Carpenter, Hawk, and Schlegel were all better suited to stopping the run as well -- but they could perform their duties in coverage to a sufficient degree as well.
Your posts thus far have made it abundantly clear that you believe the LBs should have no expectations put upon them regarding this facet of their role in the defense.
The fact remains that a large part of the issue with our pass defense starts with the Linebackers.

Speaking of Spence covering a TE - I almost wonder if the repeated use of a DE in coverage isn't b/c the defensive staff have realized how weak the LBs are in coverage; thus continually dropping Spence into coverage as a move of desperation in an attempt to help shore up that weakness.

Once again, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that this particular group of LB has shown a lack of talent at stopping the pass. I said that because they were better suited for stopping the run, some drop off in their ability to defend the pass is expected, but that does not excuse their lack of development in pass defense. Quite the contrary, in fact. While I am disappointed in the fact that they are not developing into more of a dual role. I do not think coaching is to blame, as Fickell has not really had a problem developing the linebackers in the past. Therefore, I am suggesting that it is a talent issue. Basically, they are who they are.

And I agree about Spence.