What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[Jaxbuck]

The talent up front was excellent. There was an NFL 1st rounder at each level in the back.

That makes me wonder about coaching and, to be fair, the other 5 in the back 7.

Those two things can't even be just "ok" to have the issues we saw last year given the amount of talent that was still fielded.

Roby had his issues. Shazier was still as likely to go flying harmlessly by as blow you up right to the last game of his career, so those two weren't all world lock down defenders even if they were first rounders but it still comes down to coaching and how god awful were the rest of the back 7 in my mind.

 

[ScriptOhio]

The talent up front was excellent. There was an NFL 1st rounder at each level in the back.

That makes me wonder about coaching and, to be fair, the other 5 in the back 7.

Those two things can't even be just "ok" to have the issues we saw last year given the amount of talent that was still fielded.

Roby had his issues. Shazier was still as likely to go flying harmlessly by as blow you up right to the last game of his career, so those two weren't all world lock down defenders even if they were first rounders but it still comes down to coaching and how god awful were the rest of the back 7 in my mind.

I wondered that too. If it was coaching I hope the problem is solved with the loss of Withers and the addition of Ash and Johnson. It never came out; however, I always did think that it wasn't necessarily Wither's idea to leave. Although maybe he wanted to be a head coach so bad that he was willing to take a significant pay cut to get it.

 

[MaxBuck]

I think the Buckeyes' 2013 defense was a classic case of the whole being a lot less than the sum of the parts.

 

[OSUK]

I'm working through my 2013 games on DVR. I watched FAMU once and deleted it. I watched the Orange Bowl yesterday, and decided that was all I wanted to see of that - although it was a better game than I remembered it being. I think I was frustrated when I watched it live. I will torture myself with the BTCG one more time and get rid of that one.

But you see these moments where the defense executed and did well - interrupted by longer moments where there were bad breakdowns by one or more players. They were winning games, and I think the moments of competence made the defensive staff stick to what they were doing while they waited for more consistency to develop - which didn't happen. I just sense that the entire unit did not trust each other or their coaches - and vice-versa.

We have all seen great defenses at Ohio State and elsewhere. They are characterized by good/great coaching and plenty of talent. Maybe we didn't have enough of either last year. But there is a general aspect of the scheme factor that I think played into their struggles - that being aggressiveness, or more precisely, the lack thereof. We did this read/react, take a step back, soft coverage bull shit, and it just about made me lose my mind. Would the defense have given up any more yards and points if they got up on receivers, got more in the box, and attacked? You have to be aggressive and attack if you want to make offenses punt every now and then. Those bubble and other screens that they couldn't stop? It's a little harder to complete the pass, and get the blocks set up, when 2 DB's and a LB are 2 yards across the line of scrimmage after the ball is snapped. Please Chris Ash, if we have a bad defense in 2014, let's be aggressively bad.

Thank you. I feel better.

 

[buckeyesin07]

The talent up front was excellent. There was an NFL 1st rounder at each level in the back.

That makes me wonder about coaching and, to be fair, the other 5 in the back 7.

Those two things can't even be just "ok" to have the issues we saw last year given the amount of talent that was still fielded.

Roby had his issues. Shazier was still as likely to go flying harmlessly by as blow you up right to the last game of his career, so those two weren't all world lock down defenders even if they were first rounders but it still comes down to coaching and how god awful were the rest of the back 7 in my mind.

I think this is right. Since the end of the season, I've caught replays of several long plays (some of them TDs) against last year's OSU defense. In several of them, the same player seemed to blow coverage, take a horrible angle, etc. that sprung the big play. I don't want to name names and be accused of bashing, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[cincibuck]

Since the end of the season, I've caught replays of several long plays (some of them TDs) against last year's OSU defense. In several of them, the same player seemed to blow coverage, take a horrible angle, etc. that sprung the big play.

Re-watch the Penn State game. It could have been something other than a blowout if PSU receivers had held onto some of Hackensack's passes. They had receivers open throughout much of the first half until the front four, not the back seven, put an end to PSU's passing offense by crashing the pocket.

Next watch Wisconsin and see Abracadabra damn near win the Bilitnekoff with ROBY on him.

Both games end up in wins,

Indiana, who had just put 40+ on Penn State comes into town with hot receivers and gets smashed and I'm thinking everything is fixed.

Then the bucks give up 40 points to a QB who threw 11 interceptions and 21 TDs all season. Play Tressel Ball without the back 7 in the CCG and forget they have a 1st round running back in the bowl game.

In short, the last three games of the season, games in which the bucks were matched up against teams with comparable talent, the back 7 did not play well -- at all.

.

 

[RB07OSU]

I only rewatched the *ichigan game (and by the way, FUCK THEM)...just everything was wrong, still moreso scheme. Defenders waiting to get blocked, DE's making the proper read on options with nobody to back them, and everyone except our front 4 waiting for plays to come to them. I have never seen players so timid of such an unimpressive offense. We weren't the most talented defense ever, but we were plenty talented enough to be better than that. We literally only had to be average to be a title contender and could not even manage that. I really hope everything gets remedied this year or heads will roll.

And after watching the game it just reminded me...fuck the Bengals again for passing on Hyde. Seriously.

And P.S...had to skip the fight. Makes me want to step out there and crush those fuckers every time. That was completely planned to get one of our better players out of the game and only lose a 3rd stringer on their part. Fuck them for being dirty cheaters and I am glad they still did not prevail despite their best efforts to cheat.

 

[Taosman]

The scUM game was a horror show that we could have lost very easily. Remarkable that we didn't. But we weren't so lucky in the next 2 games.
This is all in the pass now, and I don't expect a repeat of such a badly organized defense. That being said, we could lose because of other reasons, namely youth and inexperience. But, the ceiling is very high for this bunch. I can live with a worse record and a better team!

 

[colobuck79]

There shall not be a thread titled "What's Wrong with the 2014 Defense".

 

[redguard117]

I personally am hoping to see great improvements in the backfield (obviously) but I also want to see a significant improvement in fundamentals.

The (few) times last year where the scheme actually succeeded in getting a defender in the right location to break up a pass, the defender usually could not follow through on his good fortune and prevent the completion.

Our boys looked like they had no idea how to defend a pass last year. That needs to change this year, and if doesn't, there need to be more changes on the staff.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Plummer and Winfield concentrated first on making solid tackles not glancing "kill" shots that resulted in big gains. That's what we need and, for the first time in several years, I'm inclined to think that it's what we'll get.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Re-watch the Penn State game. It could have been something other than a blowout if PSU receivers had held onto some of Hackensack's passes. They had receivers open throughout much of the first half until the front four, not the back seven, put an end to PSU's passing offense by crashing the pocket.

Next watch Wisconsin and see Abracadabra damn near win the Bilitnekoff with ROBY on him.

Both games end up in wins,

Indiana, who had just put 40+ on Penn State comes into town with hot receivers and gets smashed and I'm thinking everything is fixed.

Then the bucks give up 40 points to a QB who threw 11 interceptions and 21 TDs all season. Play Tressel Ball without the back 7 in the CCG and forget they have a 1st round running back in the bowl game.

In short, the last three games of the season, games in which the bucks were matched up against teams with comparable talent, the back 7 did not play well -- at all.

.

Yes, this is all consistent with my post. FWIW, though, the player I was talking about was not Roby.

 

[kippy1040]

I personally am hoping to see great improvements in the backfield (obviously) but I also want to see a significant improvement in fundamentals.

The (few) times last year where the scheme actually succeeded in getting a defender in the right location to break up a pass, the defender usually could not follow through on his good fortune and prevent the completion.


Our boys looked like they had no idea how to defend a pass last year. That needs to change this year, and if doesn't, there need to be more changes on the staff.

In the start of the game with Michigan State last year we seemed to have the game under control and then for the errors we gave them more chances. You can't pin the blame on the staff for the mental lapses in the beginning. We made a terrific comeback to go ahead and at that point I thought we would gain great momentum the rest of the way but did we just give up and quit playing? I really thought in the second half we were the better team. Who got he blame for this game. Was It the staff, or the players.

 

[redguard117]

In the start of the game with Michigan State last year we seemed to have the game under control and then for the errors we gave them more chances. You can't pin the blame on the staff for the mental lapses in the beginning. We made a terrific comeback to go ahead and at that point I thought we would gain great momentum the rest of the way but did we just give up and quit playing? I really thought in the second half we were the better team. Who got he blame for this game. Was It the staff, or the players.

You make a fair point, but I was taking the perspective of the entirety of the past 2 seasons and not just the Michigan State game. Cheers

 

[OSUK]

Next watch Wisconsin and see Abracadabra damn near win the Bilitnekoff with ROBY on him.

My son and I sat 20 rows up in C Deck for that game. First time I had ever sat up there. Loved it. You can see everything as it develops.

Unfortunately, what we kept seeing develop was Abracadabra getting open. If the Buckeyes were playing their standard "go ahead and take 20 yards" zone, #4 was always open. If they had a man on him, he beat him. If they had a man on and one over the top, he beat that. My son and I were screaming in every pass situation, "THE BALL IS GOING TO 4! GUARD 4!" - to no avail. I'll tell you what, Abracadabra made me believe in his magic that night.