What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[MaxBuck]

Jeebus. How many chipmunks had to die so that cincibuck could waste that much Internet space?

 

[buckeyebri]

oh the bit horror...

 

[BUCKYLE]

That's BWI sig material right there.

 

[cincibuck]

Jeebus. How many chipmunks had to die so that cincibuck could waste that much Internet space?

Sorry, I'm chef d'jour and had to stop working on the post .

 

[maximumblitz]

I think he's onto something. That's pretty close to how the 2013 pass defense looked, broken down into X's and O's and a few other letters from the alphabet and beyond.

 

[cincibuck]

A bit of overkill here, I probably should have gone every 2 years, or just picked some outstanding LBs and DBs groups, but my point is that as I look this over I see a sudden, precipitous, drop in talent at LB and DB beginning in the last two Tressell years and culminating in this year's defense. I think it's reflected in the number of players drafted. Maybe that explains our varied opinions as to where Roby and Shazier stand on the All Time lists. Frankly I can see more than a few years where neither would have made it into the line up and a year or two where they would have put the defense over the top.

All that said, looking at the talent present for duty in 2012 and 2013 I think that the defensive coaching staff did a far better job than many of us have given them credit for.

1994 LBs Greg Bellisari* Craig Powell* Lorenzo Styles* Kevin Johnson, Marlon Kerner*
DBs Tim Patillo* Tito Paul* Shawn Springs* Anthony Gwinn

1995 LBs Greg Bellisari* Kevin Johnson* Ryan Miller*
DBs Anthony Gwinn* Ty Howard* Rob Kelly* Shawn Springs* Che Bryant Damon Moore
Antoine Winfield

1996 LBs Greg Bellisari* Andy Katzenmoyer* Ryan Miller* Jerry Rudzinski
DBs Ty Howard* Rob Kelly* Damon Moore* Shawn Springs* Che Bryant Ahmed Plummer
Antoine Winfield

1997 LBs Kevin Johnson*Andy Katzenmoyer* Jerry Rudzinski* Courtland Bullard Nail Diggs
DBs Gary Berry* Damon Moore* Ahmed Plummer* Antoine Winfield* Che Bryant
David Mitchell

1998 LBs Nail Diggs* Andy Katzenmoyer* Jerry Rudzinski* Courtland Bullard
DBs Gary Berry* Damon Moore* Ahmed Plummer* Antoine Winfield* Steve Bellisari Nate Clements

1999 LBs Nail Diggs* Jason Ott* Jerry Rudzinski*
DBs Nate Clements* Mike Doss* Donnie Nickey* Ahmed Plummer* Gary Berry Derek Ross

2000 LBs Courtland Bullard* Joe Cooper* Matt Wilhelm* Fred Pagac
DBs Nate Clements* Mike Doss* David Mitchell* Donnie Nickey* Derek Ross

2001 LBs Courtland Bullard* Matt Wilhelm*Joe Cooper Fred Pagac Robert Reynolds
DBs Mike Doss*Cie Grant* Richard McNutt* Donnie Nickey* Derek Ross* Will Allen
Dustin Fox

2002 LBs Robert Reynolds* Matt Wilhelm* A.J. Hawk Cie Grant
DBs Mike Doss* Dustin Fox* Richard McNutt* Donnie Nickey*Will Allen Tyler Everett E.J. Underwood

2003 LBs A.J. Hawk* Fred Pagac* Robert Reynolds* Bobby Carpenter Mike D' Andrea
DBs Will Allen* Dustin Fox* Nate Salley* Tyler Everett Brandon Mitchell Donte Whitner Ashton Youboty Nate Salley*
LBs Bobby Carpenter* A.J. Hawk* Anthony Schlegel* Mike Dandrea

2004 Bobby Carpenter*

"In order to save the post, we had to destroy it." All this data had to be pulled from a Excell file, placed in a word file, posted in a BP file. Something got lost in the translation.

The point I'm trying to make, and which I believe the list shows, is that there has been a significant drop off in back 7 defensive talent between the teams from the mid 90s and mid 2000s and the teams of the last four or five years, especially the last three years. Sorry about the red font. Can't get rid of it. The asterisks indicate starters.

 

[maximumblitz]

Half the back seven landed in the NFL (3/7) this year. Fully half of the secondary landed in the NFL.

 

[ScriptOhio]

Sorry about the red font. Can't get rid of it.

Highlight it as if you were going to copy it and then click on the "unlink" button. It looks like a paperclip with an X.

 

[cincibuck]

Half the back seven landed in the NFL (3/7) this year. Fully half of the secondary landed in the NFL.

I want to wait and see how many stick with the teams that drafted them. Two, Roby and Bryant, were injured when needed most, 4th quarter of the BTCCG and the Bowl game. But the pass defense was abysmal the entire season.

I just don't see how this group holds a candle to the back 7s from previous years. Maybe it was the schemes, maybe it was the talent in the front 4, but something clearly failed.

 

[RB07OSU]

I want to wait and see how many stick with the teams that drafted them. Two, Roby and Bryant, were injured when needed most, 4th quarter of the BTCCG and the Bowl game. But the pass defense was abysmal the entire season.

I just don't see how this group holds a candle to the back 7s from previous years. Maybe it was the schemes, maybe it was the talent in the front 4, but something clearly failed.

The bolded was NOT the problem...our front 4 was incredible. As to the rest, yeah...either scheme or talent. I think it was mostly scheme, we would have had much better results with the right scheme.

 

[Mike80]

I want to wait and see how many stick with the teams that drafted them. Two, Roby and Bryant, were injured when needed most, 4th quarter of the BTCCG and the Bowl game. But the pass defense was abysmal the entire season.

I just don't see how this group holds a candle to the back 7s from previous years. Maybe it was the schemes, maybe it was the talent in the front 4, but something clearly failed.

The Front 4 broke the sack record as I remember. When teams are throwing the ball 50 times a game because you're up most of the time, your secondary will be beaten up. However, the big plays allowed last year were the biggest issue and that mostly (unfortunately) fell on the back 7. I think the problem was two-fold: the superior talent was somewhat limited, and the scheme was very 'soft' in that they weren't challenging receivers for the ball but instead playing to contain, which may have been a result of the perceived or real lack of superior talent. There was a significant lack of physicality in the secondary after Christian Bryant went down though and I think that's where the defense started coming apart.

I think both of those issues will be fixed almost immediately with the new DC and the talent UFM is bringing in but time will tell.

 

[HOLYBUCKEYE10]

Simple, we need to abandon the soft cushion crap and start playing physical hit at the line of scrimmage I'm going to be all over you like flies on Mike80's morbid cor errr I mean flies on poop.

 

[Dryden]

Half the back seven landed in the NFL (3/7) this year. Fully half of the secondary landed in the NFL.

Michael Bennett is currently projected as the top DT in the 2015 draft class, and some are throwing around Spence's name as a potential first round pick too. I've seen him listed as low as 10th among all DE for next season, but in this way too early 2015 mock draft CBS's Dane Brugler has Bennett going 10th and Spence going 22nd. Doran Grant's name has been mentioned by some as he'll be out of Roby's shadow, then there's Bosa in 2016.

Possible this 2013 defense started 6 first rounders?

 

[ScriptOhio]

Michael Bennett is currently projected as the top DT in the 2015 draft class, and some are throwing around Spence's name as a potential first round pick too. I've seen him listed as low as 10th among all DE for next season, but in this way too early 2015 mock draft CBS's Dane Brugler has Bennett going 10th and Spence going 22nd. Doran Grant's name has been mentioned by some as he'll be out of Roby's shadow, then there's Bosa in 2016.

Possible this 2013 defense started 6 first rounders?

Just sayin': The 2013 defense just didn't have the football equivalent of what the business world calls "synergy".

SYNERGY is the interaction of multiple elements in a system to produce an effect different from or greater than the sum of their individual effects.

 

[Onebuckfan]

Just sayin': The 2013 defense just didn't have the football equivalent of what the business world calls "synergy".

SYNERGY is the interaction of multiple elements in a system to produce an effect different from or greater than the sum of their individual effects.

No synergy after CB went out ...we needed someone who knew everyone's responsibilities and got them on the same page. We had emotion but needed the player with knowledge.