Wauseon plant to open Monday for 110-mpg car engines

[BUCKYLE]

Come on, blaming the consumer. Shame on you!

The only reason the Japanese and Koreans do well in the auto industry is because big oil holds back Joe six pack's inventions in his garage. Not only are countries that have proven to make amazing advances in technology not smart enough, but also the big 3 automakers. Only random guys (with minimal capital in comparison) who are bought up by big oil smart enough to make huge advances. It's not the marketplace. It's big oil buying up those genius small investors in the US.

Of course let's just ignore the fact Chinese, Korean, and Japanese companies copy American patents all the time. Yet when it comes to the ones Big Oil bought up, they shy away. Hell, even after the patents expire. Those big oil bastards!

If you had tied it all to George W. Bush, I'd have bought it.

 

[scott91575]

Found this on the internet. Pretty good synopsis of my replies to the conspiracy theorists (oh, and the original message sounds eerily familiar)...

The Plot to Keep the Super-Efficient Engine Off The Market


by
Dave Palmer




A correspondent wrote:

>we were sitting around talking, and he mentioned that his
>friend's father once had a car that got several hundred miles
>to the gallon, but the car company bought it back from him because
>it was using an experimental engine that never should have been
>sold -- the car companies and oil companies were conspiring to keep
this engine off the market.


Hogwash. The first company that came up with a super-efficient engine could QUIT whatever business it was doing and become fabulously wealthy just selling rights to it.

Let's look at this hoary fable in a bit of depth.

OK, first scenario: the brave, lone inventor, who just happens to have engineering knowledge decades ahead of anyone else in the world, tinkers around in his garage and invents the super-efficient engine. Suddenly, the Black Helicopters from MegaOilCorp swoop down (how did they know? Hey, they KNOW, pal...) and offer this brilliant but hopelessly naive inventor a dumptruck full of money for all the rights to his invention. Apparently not understanding the simple fact that he could make a zillion times that much by hanging onto it, he signs a big complicated legal form, one clause of which requires him to keep quiet about the whole thing in perpetuity.

With an evil laugh, the oily suits take the engine back to their Dark Lair and lock it into a safe, never to see the light of day. Brilliant! They've just stifled the threat to their livelihood.

Oooops, except two years later, an automotive engineering student in Kiev stumbles across the same principle, and hands out a press release before the Black Helicopters can get there. The oil company guys suddenly realize their big mistake: they didn't patent the thing, so they have absolutely zero legal recourse. But hey, they're MegaOil, who says they have to obey the law? They arrange to have the kid whacked, his engine dumped in the Black Sea, and all the recipients of the press release paid off. That works just fine, until six months later, when a retired Volvo engineer in Goteborg comes up with the same thing. And so it goes...

Ah, but what if they HAD patented it? Well, the problem there is that patents are in the public record, and there are all kinds of guys who do nothing but look through patent books all day looking for things they can cash in on. So, soon the patent for the engine is discovered, it becomes big news, and then a economics school student writes a master's thesis showing how MegaOil would have increased their stock price by six zillion percent if they'd marketed the damn thing. At the next stockholder's meeting, a group of livid investors corner the exec responsible for the debacle, and cut his goodies off with a dull letter opener.

Next scenario: the engineers at BigCo Motor Corp develop the super-efficient engine. They throw a big party to celebrate, their bosses give them big bonuses, everyone is happy! BigCo will OWN the automotive world! But ut-ooohhhh, there's an evil oil company guy on the BigCo board of directors. He calls up the CEO of BigCo, and the conversation goes something like this:

"Hey, Frank! Great to hear from you, fella! You read our announcement of the new engine?"

"Yes, Tom, and that's why I'm calling. Some of us on the board want you to deep-six it."

(a long, long pause)

"Um, sorry, Frank I didn't quite get that last bit."

"We want you to kill the project. Cone ON Tom, you KNOW that would hurt oil sales."

(another long pause, while the CEO idly toys with a dull letter opener)

"Errrr....Frank, that last time at the Betty Ford clinic, you DID dry out completely, didn't you? Didn't you get the financial report on this? Not only will BigCo's profits go through the ceiling, but we're projecting a 35% INCREASE in oil sales, because more people will be able to afford to drive because of this."

"Yes, but how would THAT look, me supporting something that uses LESS oil? It would be a PR nightmare."

"Frank, did you read my private addendum to that report? The part where I pointed out that the stock price increase in just the stock you personally own will put another $137 million in your pocket next year? Heh-heh, I called my broker before we put out the announcement, and had him buy me 50,000 shares of every oil company on the planet."

"Look Tom, don't try to fight me on this, you'll lose."

"OK, well look, thanks for calling, Frank. I've really gotta go now, the stockholders are throwing me this little ticker tape parade down Wall Street. Let's get together for a round of golf at the club one last time while you're still a member there, and not a busboy. Hey, by the way, did I tell you? I've hired a new pool cleaner. Some kid named Bill Gates."

*click*

The Plot to Keep the Super-Efficient Engine Off The Market

 

[scott91575]

If you had tied it all to George W. Bush, I'd have bought it.

Well, the chip he put in my head stops me form mentioning.....ow, ow, ow! Sorry, I must go.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Well, the chip he put in my head stops me form mentioning.....ow, ow, ow! Sorry, I must go.

Nice try. Head chip tech was bought up by big psychiatry.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Collusion between three companies--and the only three companies of their kind, essentially, in the entire country--would hardly require "a vast conspiracy that would take unimaginable genius".

You don't see Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitusbishi, Suzuki, Hyundai, Kia, etc., failing and asking their governments for bailouts. If the CEOs of the Big Three were worth anywhere near what they get paid, then GM, Ford, and Chrysler would be in the black and the taxpayers would be billions richer...

two word- contractual obligations.

(ie unions)

 

[scott91575]

Nice try. Head chip tech was bought up by big psychiatry.

What? My uncle gave me a sedative and told me that is what happened. I remember because it was right after our 300 mile trip on 3 gallons of gas.

Oh no, he, he.....he touched me! Dear God, I need psychiatric care!

Oh dear God that is just what they wanted! They got me too! Damn you big psychiatry!

 

[BUCKYLE]

What? My uncle gave me a sedative and told me that is what happened. I remember because it was right after our 300 mile trip on 3 gallons of gas.

Oh no, he, he.....he touched me! Dear God, I need psychiatric care!

Oh dear God that is just what they wanted! They got me too! Damn you big psychiatry!

The part about the 3 gallons of gas is true?!

 

[scott91575]

The part about the 3 gallons of gas is true?!

I am sorry. This is really tough for me to discuss. It's just coming back to me. Now I remember. After we got back some black helicopters showed up and had my uncle sign all kinds of documents. He was handed a briefcase full of money. They then destroyed the car. It's all coming back. Lee Iaccoca was there chuckling. He even...oh this is tough...he even watched later and said give him "the rich Corinthian leather treatment." Oh it was terrible.

So yes, it is as true as all of the above.

 

[BUCKYLE]

This world scares me.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Found this on the internet. Pretty good synopsis of my replies to the conspiracy theorists (oh, and the original message sounds eerily familiar)...

The Plot to Keep the Super-Efficient Engine Off The Market

As soon as the article author said the following, he lost all credibility:

"Errrr....Frank, that last time at the Betty Ford clinic, you DID dry out completely, didn't you? Didn't you get the financial report on this? Not only will BigCo's profits go through the ceiling, but we're projecting a 35% INCREASE in oil sales, because more people will be able to afford to drive because of this."

So, this author who gets so much delight in ridiculing any notion of big oil taking "extra interest" in super efficient engines thinks that despite a sharp increase in gas mileage that there would be a 35% increase is sales because more people would drive? WTF? Uh, how many people in America currently don't drive? Seriously. Unless US drivership would instantly double, there would be no where near enough "new drivers" to offset the far better gas mileage to the point of increasing sales 35%. Also, what are the chances of two or three inventors in completely different parts of the world coming up with the exact same design for a super-efficient engine, years apart?

If this clown wants to ridicule any "consipiracy theories" he should at least use examples that somehow approach reason.

 

[scott91575]

As soon as the article author said the following, he lost all credibility:



So, this author who gets so much delight in ridiculing any notion of big oil taking "extra interest" in super efficient engines thinks that despite a sharp increase in gas mileage that there would be a 35% increase is sales because more people would drive? WTF? Uh, how many people in America currently don't drive? Seriously. Unless US drivership would instantly double, there would be no where near enough "new drivers" to offset the far better gas mileage to the point of increasing sales 35%. Also, what are the chances of two or three inventors in completely different parts of the world coming up with the exact same design for a super-efficient engine, years apart?

If this clown wants to ridicule any "consipiracy theories" he should at least use examples that somehow approach reason.

To tell you the truth, not sure why him or I try. You guys do it all on your own without an help. You honestly think there are IC engine technologies invented by one guy that double or triple efficiency (making it almost impossible per all known physical models of our universe), and the oil companies got to him. Of course you already stated one guy patented his idea (which any normal person would do). Yet I am still waiting on the patent and proof big oil bought it up. It is amazing the amount of moles big oil has that find these amazing inventions and then squash it. Of course just continue to ignore the glaring fact I keep pointing out and you ignore...patents are public record.

BTW...here is some math for you to think about. Let's say this guy decided to patent his idea and not sell to big oil. For arguments sake let's say he sells his technology for use in the auto industry. There are approx. 70 million vehicles sold world wide (ignoring other engine uses like farm/lawn equipment, boats, generators, etc). Then let's assume he sells it for $500 per engine sold (pretty bottom basement considering how huge of an advancement it is). Any company would easily buy his technology for that, and any company that did not would have a huge disadvantage. So essentially every company would do it. That would be $35 billion dollars a year he would be foregoing by taking some buyout. That is close to the entire profit Exxon made last year (a record profit). So either that guy is immensely stupid (despite being a genius), or his invention never worked as advertised and duped the big bad oil companies.

Over a 14 year lifespan he is giving up $490 billion dollars. So in order to buy him out the oil companies would have to at least get somewhere in the neighborhood of that dollar amount. Mind you, from the span of 2001-2007 major oil companies combined made around $550 billion. Let's say they get a deal and pay him $100 billion (making him the richest man in the world, but no one hears about him). How the eff does a publicly traded company hide that? How do they justify the cost? Who ends up buying the patent? Certainly they are not pooling their money and trusting one company to keep is secret. Mind you a secret that would in a normal year multiply their profits 10 fold, and even last year doubled profits. Nope, they would forego 1/2 trillion dollars as a company to lose maybe 25-50% of their profits (which over a 30 year timespan might be about the same amount). Of course they are out the $100 billion they paid the guy. So even more than 30 years. Not exactly a sound fiscal policy.

Oh, and in many developing nations they would sell more cars and those people would buy more oil.

More than likely this guy and oil companies would be giving up trillions. Yes, trillions. Considering the use of IC engines, a few hundred dollar surcharge for super technology would not be much to ask. Then assume over 500 million IC engines sold. Nope, instead of making trillions this guy would rather take a minor percentage and oil companies, who could make more profit with this invention than they have made in decades of selling oil, decide to bury it so they can make an extra 10 billion a year on average. Mind you these are the same companies that refuse to build more refineries because the payback is 10 years and would rather put the money elsewhere. Nothing like protecting profits so your payback is over 100 years. Makes no [censored]ing sense.

Yeah, one big conspiracy by big oil. Honestly, do you actually think about the ramifications of these "buying up" of super patents and then sitting on them?

 

[Jake]

How long before the big three and/or big oil find a way to shut his ass down? vBets?

The big three and big oil will have to find a way to beat big union and big government since they now own the big three.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

The big three and big oil will have to find a way to beat big union and big government since they now own two of the big three.

fify
(plus the banks, and largest auto lender in gmac)

 

[scott91575]

not scott and certainly don't have his expertise. but heat being the enemy isn't exactly a new revelation. heat reduces hp and thereby fuel efficiency. but their is a glass ceiling on how efficient you can make an engine just by keeping it cool. most cars (especially sports cars) have aftermarket parts that can help keep your engine cooler. in fact, the best thing you can do for fuel efficiency is get your car dyno'd and tuned to the 200-100 rpm level. all cars leave the factory floor running rich to keep you from doing damage to the engine when running wot. optimizing your fuel mixture for a factory car will almost always increase your fuel mileage.

removing the catalytic converter would certainly increase your fuel mileage. anything that restricts your exhaust is going to decrease hp thereby fuel efficiency. though if he isn't using a catalytic converter i am curious how he plans to meet EPA regulations... he states he has "increased efficiency" to the point of no longer needing one. that makes me think he is doing something super nifty when igniting the fuel. i have no idea what that would be. maybe scott has some thoughts.

but if you want to know how much more efficient your car would be without cats go buy these:

QTP ? Electric Exhaust Cutouts

put em on your car, get it tuned and tell us how it goes. i suspect your going to fall "slightly" short of 100mpg...

Didn't really respond to this completely. Pretty good synopsis. Although modern engines run really close to stoichiometric* (stoic). Erroring on the rich side does help prevent damage caused by lean running engines, yet for the most part engines get really close to stoic (also running slightly rich helps the cat do it's job). This also does not include compression engines (diesels) and GDI (gasoline direct injection) engines. They run lean by design, and need structural improvements to run lean. Running lean could be something he is doing to increase fuel economy, yet it leads to those nasty NOx emissions which require a cat (of course he never once quotes NOx emmisions, so this could be part of the equation especially since he shows low CO and hydrocarbon emissions....a positive byproduct of running lean).

As far as what he does to eliminate the cat, you have to assume he is running at perfect stoic all the time. I am willing to bet he is running his dyno tests at a constant rpm, which is pretty apparent since he quotes his emmissions in ppm (emissions are done in g/mi due to the transient nature of the test...ppm makes me assume he is taking a one time measurement at a single point in time). Emmisions standards are not run at static operation. If they were, emissions would be easy to meet. The transeint nature of a IC engine makes it tough to meet emissions, especially on start up.

Yet even if we assume he has created an amazing algorithm that can keep his engine at stoic way more than today's engine, a clean burn does not produce the energy he is claiming. The big flaw in combustion is the majority of the energy is converted to heat. Keeping the engine cooler helps eliminate early combustion allowing for higher compression and hence more energy to power. Yet, when you burn a fuel most of the energy still goes to heat production. You somehow need to recapture that heat and turn it into useful energy (which would require a whole other system with even more ineffinciencies). Then add in pumping losses inherent to IC engines which are not recoverable (you need to pump out the gasses somehow). Add it all up, and 3 to 4 times efficiency does not make sense with a combustion engine.

To the exhaust thing...getting rid of the cat certainly helps (this goes to the pumping losses I mentioned...the more crap you need to push gases past the more pumping losses you have). Yet the length of the exhaust also needs to be tuned. The exhaust and intake air essentially works in waves. You want to match the waves of air for optimal flow, yet you can only pick one RPM. One cool invention is active exhaust (actually on the Dodge Viper). This can control the waves of air for optimum flow over all RPM's (there are also active intakes that do similar things). It also lowers sound so they can put on side exhaust and meet noise pass by standards. Yet this stuff is very expensive. Most active measures are really just 2 or 3 settings, and not a complete analog feedback loop. So it optomizes power/FE at 2 or 3 RPM's instead of 1. Helps overall efficiency without the severe cost penalty. This is something else this guy could be doing. Yet in the end it still only help a little and no where near his claims.

 

[martinss01]

Couldn't disagree more.

Do you remember the Chevy Citation? My uncle purchased one new when they first came out and was very concerned immediately because the gas gauge appeared to be broken. He had put about 300 miles on the car and the needle had barely moved. He "knew" the tank had to be getting close to empty so he filled up and could only get 3 gallons into the tank. I went with him to a Cincy Reds game (about 300 miles round trip) and we filled up before we left and filled up when we got back. Only took about 3 gallons.

He took the car into the dealer and said that there was something wrong with it and explained what was happening. Dealer looked at the paperwork on the sale and offered to buy the car back from him. Actually told my uncle that the car was an experimental model that was unloaded in error. Something about an experimental carburetor. Offered him more than what he paid for it. My uncle said thanks but no thanks.

Again I ask, when did the Chevy Citation come out?

does he still have the car by chance?