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Vince Young (unemployed)

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So you want me to reread your statement, but accept your generalizations after skimming mine? Try some of your own advice
Our defense will take a big step back. That doesn't mean they can't be a good defense, but you have to drink some serious koolaid to think we won't notice a difference.
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On paper, we should be ok on D, but we will have to see how all of these new, somewhat untested faces do as a unit for an entire season. This is not to suggest we can't win against texas or that we won't do well next year, I'm just talking about the dropoff at D (I think our O will carry us occasionally, at least moreso than in years past).
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I stated that both teams lose a lot, and you wrote it off as nothing b/c we have all these great guys waiting in the wings. You asked who we lost, and I answered. I missed the part where I said the sky was falling.
 
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jwinslow said:
So you want me to reread your statement, but accept your generalizations after skimming mine? Try some of your own adviceI stated that both teams lose a lot, and you wrote it off as nothing b/c we have all these great guys waiting in the wings. You asked who we lost, and I answered. I missed the part where I said the sky was falling.
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Texas loses more than we do across the board. Yeah, we lose the best LB trio in the country, but other than that we don't lose more than any normal year. Again, with a solid DL, our new trio can hold their own. You said, quote: "Our defense will take a big step back." Well, I'm tellin' ya the step back won't be near as what many people think.
 
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fair enough, but that was why I followed that statement with "that doesn't mean they can't be a good defense." if their OL takes some time to gel, it will be a much easier win. They still have a ton of weapons on offense if the line holds up. Young, Charles, Melton, Taylor are all back, as well as Sweed & Pittman.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Who do we lose that can't be replaced by someone nearly as good, if not as good, as them, aside from our LBs?

Defense (other than LBs):
Kudla (probably replaced by Gholston)
Green (replaced by Patterson)
Salley (replaced by Mitchell)
Everett (already replaced by Jenkins)

We lose little by graduation at those positions (no offense to the seniors, but rather props to their replacements)

Offense:
Mangold (most likely replaced by Cordle)
Sims (no definite replacement)
Holmes (not a senior, but he's good as gone...most likely replaced by Hall or Dukes)

The offense should be solid next year. With Smith's return after his great improvement this season, an OL that should be as good or better with the return of Cordle and the addition of Connor Smith, and our WR corps all but intact, we should be able to put up more quite a bit more than 22 points on Texas next year.
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You forgot a very important position:

Kicker:
Josh Huston (most likely replaced by Ryan Pretorius) could be a big drop off there.
 
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I'm with JW on this one.

This year with our LB's they forced VY to beat us throwing and unfortunately he did. Next year he's going to be a 2 dimensional threat again and no defense in CFB can hold up to that. Especially one thats going to be as inexperienced as ours will be in 2006.

Call me fair weather or whatever but my biggest hope for next years trip to Austin is to avoid an embarrassing blowout. With a healthy VY back I see no way we can win.
 
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jwinslow said:
The kicking game decided the game this year. it wasn't the only thing, but it clearly played a big role this year.
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How's that? Because Huston missed a 50-yarder? Jesus Christ, the kid hit 5 out of 6. Even Nugent didn't go 6-for-6 in any of his games. Two plays were clearly pivotal in us losing: Hamby's dropped TD pass, and A. Smith not tackling the Texas returner in the end zone...either, let alone both, of those plays happen and the missed 50-yarder is totally moot. Hell, if both happen we almost blow Texas out.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
How's that?
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IIRC, one of their kicks bounced thru (I think it was a FG, I might be wrong). We kicked the ball 6 times. Therefore the kicking game was a huge deciding factor in this game. I'm not blaming him for the loss at all (that is on the offense), but with two stout defenses, the FGs accounted for a large portion of the scoring.

We missed a game winning FG. They bounced thru a game winning FG IIRC (it happened earlier in teh game, but without it they would not have won).
 
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jwinslow said:
IIRC, one of their kicks bounced thru (I think it was a FG, I might be wrong). We kicked the ball 6 times. Therefore the kicking game was a huge deciding factor in this game. I'm not blaming him for the loss at all (that is on the offense), but with two stout defenses, the FGs accounted for a large portion of the scoring.

We missed a game winning FG. They bounced thru a game winning FG IIRC (it happened earlier in teh game, but without it they would not have won).
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And your point is? That the loss of Huston will be as much of an impact as the loss of our LBs?

Texas losses four starters minimum on defense (DT Wright, MLB Harris, CB Griffin, SS Huff), while we lose Mangold, Sims, Hamby, and probably Holmes. Hamby has been all but non-existant this season (aside from the dropped TD), and Frost has been pretty impressive, so I don't think we're really losing anything there. Sims has been alright, but not a world-beater, so his loss won't be very big. We lose one big player for sure (Mangold) but with the raves Cordle was getting in camp, the dropoff may not be as much as feared. The loss of Holmes, if it does indeed happen, will hurt but our WR corps is deep and talented enough to remain very dangerous. Troy Smith will have another spring and fall camp under his belt, and I think may be a legit Heisman candidate. We'll have Pittman back, along with Beanie Wells joining the stable. The offense should have little, if any, dropoff from right now.

I'm not saying we're going to waltz into Texas and hand them their ass, but I'm in now way ready to throw in the towel just because Young stays around and we lose our LBs.
 
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Nor am I, and I have never suggested this (tho JaxBuck seems to think I agree its a hopeless cause). I was merely stating that we lose a lot on defense, and VY's offense will be a big challenge. I think we will score at least 10 more points in next year's contest, and that should be enough to win.

We have two backup kickers, and Huston describes one as being extremely accurate, and the other as having a huge leg. Not that they cannot develop as kickers (ie Nuge), but we don't have a great backup right now. Skeete would have provided a much better option.

I think our O will carry our D a few times next year, which will be a welcome change (this was actually stated in the post that got you all worked up). I think we can beat Texas. Thing is, our LBs were the ones that slowed down VY. We should still field a good defense, but I think you need a great one, and a rare blend of speed/size to take down VY.
 
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jwinslow said:
Nor am I, and I have never suggested this (tho JaxBuck seems to think I agree its a hopeless cause).
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If you read my post I clearly said I agree with you that the loss of our LB corp and the return of VY would probably be too much to overcome.

I also clearly stated what my personal opinion on the game was and didn't say a thing about you or your opinion in doing so.

I know you don't like to miss a chance to take a shot at me but if your going to do it at least read the post.
 
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I think Young deserves the Heisman. I feel that way because I believe he would be a fool to stay at Texas if he wins it. I would like to see him go.

I think we can beat Texas with or without him next year because we will have something that we didn't have this year: an explosive offense.

I don't think we have any reason to walk in there talking smack but I think next year's Buckeyes will be capable of taking care of business.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
If you read my post I clearly said I agree with you that the loss of our LB corp and the return of VY would probably be too much to overcome.

I also clearly stated what my personal opinion on the game was and didn't say a thing about you or your opinion in doing so.

I know you don't like to miss a chance to take a shot at me but if your going to do it at least read the post.
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you said you agreed with me, and then went on to explain that the LBs slowed down VY and that next year would be horrible. sorry if I got the wrong impression from that, but it was how it read the first time thru.
 
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