ttun Shenanigans and Arguments (2015 official thread)

[Beaver]

As noted, Sam Webb has completed taking over TMI (The Michigan Insider). He claims that he offered Tom a role, though given that he was recently banned from talking about the coaching search (until Sam invented a rumor board where he was permitted to speak without running it past Sam first), I doubt it was a very good one.

He has had some, interesting takes lately. He puts a positive spin on almost everything and frequently leaves out the parts that paint UM in a bad or pessimistic light (like only asking questions that won't brush on how heavily they are leaning towards other schools). That's what makes some of his semi-critical warning posts pretty interesting.

Harbaugh's reputation in-state

There were some pretty odd posts about Mitchell. Previously UM wasn't very interested, though the "Rutgers is out so we'll actually try" intel seemed pretty odd. I think it was actually "Rutgers is out and OSU isn't sure if they want him so we'll circle back", as seems to be the case (though it's tough to tell with the ever changing OSU recruiting world).

But that led to this absolute whopper within the next 24 hours or so

 

[Beaver]

The UM fanbase is clutching to some pretty thin threads right now, but these are widely held stances:

- Harbaugh is either the best coach in football or at worst, a top-3 coach. At any level. Which makes him better than all/most of these guys: Belichick, Carroll, Meyer, Saban. You can make a strong case that he's not the best coach with his last name.

- Harbaugh is the most prominent coach in football

- Recruiting doesn't matter because Harbaugh, who will win big. You'll see.

- Missing on _____ recruits is not a big deal because those kids failed before at UM (one of my favorite inconsistent stances). Some examples: Cass Tech, Midwest kids, highly rated recruits, etc.

Recent thread from Sam Webb:
What if OSU and MSU got the pick of the litter...

in the state of Michigan every year? If Michigan got a few in the 5-15 range in-state, the Buckeyes and Spartans got split the best...would it be that big a deal?

I'm NOT asking the question because I think that's on the verge of happening or because I think Michigan is willing to concede the point. I'm just trying to get an accurate feel for how important you guys think in-state recruiting is. The other day I felt like many of the folks chiming in were making too much of what I think is a short term issue. Today I feel like many here are making too little of what it would mean if in-state recruiting allowed to become a long term issue. Or maybe I'm misreading the tone of the board today??

Sam, if Michigan starts winning again, consistently winning, that's all I care about. Recruits will come.

The brand of Michigan, combined with Harbaugh and Nike (or even UA) will be too much.

If this is the trend for the next two years, so be it. Just win

I don't think it matters where Harbaugh gets his recruits. He's going to win. It's what he does.

Not important, i just want good players. I dont care where they are from. Dominating the state under hoke and having a lot of success in Ohio got UM no where under hoke.

If Jimmy comes in an wins right away we will be able to recruit nationally it won't matter about the in state talent. I think these in state coaches feel to entitled. Wilcher basically bowed down to urban meyer after they screwed Weber, and now things are cool with them. Sam I have a question do you feel like some of the coaches in the metro Detroit area are upset that they weren't offered jobs like Partridge and Finnoti?

For example right now I would certainly take Brad Hawkins and Ahmir Mitchell or Austin Mack over Corley and Fitzpatrick.

I look at it like this....the well is poisoned right now for one extremely large reason....

We have SUCKED for 7 out of the last 8 years now....and the last two years have been complete abominations. I mean not only have we lost a LOT of games but we've looked completey overmatched, outcoached, lazy, disorganized, and SOFT when losing...and that makes matters far worse.

Now, OSU has won big, and so has MSU....but IMHO this is more about MICHIGAN than it is about OSU and MSU...

So I'm not worked up about it....because we just brought in a coach that will definitely rectify us looking completely overmatched, outcoaches, lazy, disorganized and soft.

That will translate into more wins....

The well is poisoned right now because all these kids have seen is Michigan lose and look bad doing it...

Harbaugh will rectify that....and slowly Michigan will regain instate dominance IMHO.

I'd let it be known right now that Michigan will no longer recruit players from King. If players from King are interested in Michigan, they will have to show it.

Cut ties. Make kids who like Michigan, who want a chance at going to Michigan, have second thoughts about playing for that program until those coaches leave.

Recruit all other programs normally. Don't kiss anyone's arse.

There are some reasonable folks with takes like this, but they are rare

It is very important, I'd disagree with some here and say it's MORE important in these early years than late. I've heard several on here say the Michigan brand/appeal has suffered in recent years because of our record, rise of MSU/OSU, etc. If that's the case and a cause of major issues instate and locally, you can double the affect nationally. Kids with no prior affinity, from long distance, that can't get on campus often and get comfortable are LESS likely to come not more. I expect our appeal nationally to rise higher later, once we've piled up wins and hopefully ships, not as much early. This is the time when you need to raid heavily in your local area, those are the kids you have the best chance with.

Even if they don't remain instate, most kids no matter what state they reside in stay semi-local. At worst, most normally go to a school in the same region, Northeast, South, Mid-West, West Coast, Southwest, etc. There are always exceptions but in most cases kids stay regional.

Here's a question I've had, when the last time Michigan DIDN'T have a class that wasn't at least half made-up of prospects from Michigan/Ohio? More importantly I guess, how good of a class can Michigan expect to sign if a significant number of players aren't from Michigan/Ohio? I know some thing we can just go grab 15 good kids from CA, TX, and FL but the odds of that are remote at best.

Here's a thread from today with examples:
Recruiting not what I expected

Didn't expect a top 5 class but if you told me after JH was hired we would still be looking for our first top 100 player I would have said no way.

Cue the chorus of canned responses

Well, if he was forming relationships with recruits before the end of December that would be news as well...

+1, dude and staff have been on the job for 5 months and most of these kids have been recruited now for several years by other programs. Harbaugh is harbaugh but at the same time he is new and new can freak some people out.

Below average so far

Sure is a shame that Signing Day is tomorrow.

Oh.

I can read. Just fine actually. Did you honestly think Jim Harbaugh was going to walk in and start pulling top 100 players left and right in 4 months on the job?

Is it too late to get Hoke or Rich Rod back? Sure, Wood-whatever's only got 5-ish posts, but he's probably just a concerned alum that saw how JH was clearly destroying all aspects of the Michigan brand and signed-up to see what he could do to help. If only more of us could adopt his obviously deep concern for the welfare of Michigan football. Anyone register FireHarbaugh.com yet?

Here's a fun one that has been sold to them a LOT by the insiders, who have also sold "UM is not pushing for commitments" as something that is their ideal situation and not making the best of a bad situation (with mediocre recruiters).

I expect that he will get some top recruits. But top recruits usually take longer to commit 'cause the can. These kids aren't just gonna have love at fist site and commit, especially when they haven't had time to get to know the new staff. Plus, many recruits are going to wait to see what UM does on the field this fall.

Completely agree with you. Let these kids see the product on the field and I think that the recruits will come.

There are certainly folks like this who disagree but they are shouted down

I'll be honest ... I did.

But, that doesn't mean I'm alarmed. JH and company are gearing up for the main recruiting season, with all of the satellite camps, the recruiting day for Michigan kids, etc...

I think this just shows that kids are into "what have you done lately", more than history and tradition. The results of our season, combined with recruiting relationships coaches are building will go a long way towards signing an elite class. We really need to win ... The rest will take care of itself.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

QB Lambert says he'll transfer from Virginia
Redshirt sophomore Greyson Lambert will transfer from Virginia, the quarterback announced Saturday on Twitter, calling it the "hardest decision" of his life.

scUM needs more QBs.. 12 is not enuf

 

[WolverineMike]

Beaver's contract expired like a month ago and he tweeted out that it not been renewed. I assume he was on a bender somewhere.

 

[Buckeye86]

Dumbast fan base in America, worst "insiders" in America.

December:
[insiders]Top 100 kids will be lining up to commit for Harbaugh![/insiders]
May:
[insiders]The staff has cooled on every single top 100 kid we had a reasonable shot at, so obviously that explains why none of them have committed[/insiders]

[dumbest fast base in America]Checks out to me![/dumbest fan base in America]


In response to getting their asses kicked for local kids and Ohio kids, the bedrock foundation they have always built their success on, they are hoping to be Iowa pre-2013 (when Ferentz decided to stop casting such a wide net) on the recruiting trail by going after third and fourth tier Florida/Texas/Cali recruits. Genius!

In their defense, they are hoping the Michigan brand and Harbaugh will allow them to go after 2nd tier players (and are praying they can get some top tier kids from those places). In other words, their pie in the sky dream for success (assuming they continue to get their asses kicked locally) is to be the modern iteration of Notre Dame.

The elephant in the room is the mountain of evidence piling up that Harbaugh is a fucking weirdo who is scaring a lot of kids away once he interacts with them.

If true, and it seems highly plausible, that is a huge problem for them moving forward which no amount of success on the football field is going to fix. It's not like Harbaugh is the only coach who will be (hypothetically) winning football games, and most kids would rather play for someone who isn't a fucking weirdo all things being equal.

The elephant in the room some people have addressed is after a decade of sucking, the Michigan brand is on life support.

Even if, by some miracle, the brand gets taken off life support by semi-competent management by the AD and success on the field, Harbaugh will still be a fucking weirdo who will be looking for the first ticket back to the NFL.

Ohio State fans in general, and posters here on BP in particular, nailed predictions on Rodriguez and Hoke. There are some serious storm clouds collecting over Ann Arbor. The locals are trying their best to ignore them, but barring some miracle, the writing is starting to show up on the wall for the Harbaugh experiment as HC.

 

[NFBuck]

Meanwhile, Sparty just had a huge recruiting week and isn't fading away like many of them predicted...Harbrau spent his week cleaning the walls after JayBrau scribbled all over them with crayons, and tweeting about Peruvian fisherman or some shit.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

The elephant in the room some people have addressed is after a decade of sucking, the Michigan brand is on life support.

The "Michigan brand" this millennium:

110-66 record, .625 winning percentage. Michigan honks endlessly remind us that they are the winningest CFB program of all time, but since 2001 they are only #29.

2-12 record in The Game.

2 Big Ten titles, and none since 2004.

3-8 in bowl games, including 1-3 in BCS bowl games.

This is the "Michigan brand" that recruits know, and apparently do not love.

Meanwhile, back in Columbus, the Buckeyes have a record of 150-32, .824 winning percentage, #2 overall (#1 for Power5 teams).

12-2 record in The Game.

8 Big Ten titles, and 2 undisputed national championships.

8-6 record in bowl games, including 7-4 in BCS bowls/playoff games.

The Buckeyes will enter 2015 as defending national champs, the #1 team in the country, and with several All American candidates led by perhaps the greatest head coach in CFB history.

Ohio State OWNS Michigan, and that won't be changing any time soon.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

But Fielding Yost was pretty goddamned good, you have to admit that. Won the very first Rose Bowl, you know. 49 - 0.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

The year 2001 is actually a pretty good choice for this generation of recruits coming through. In 2001 they were pre-schoolers. Not terribly likely to have been up to speed on the landscape of college football at the time. As they've aged and become aware of the college football landscape, they've seen an irrelevant Michigan. And an irrelevant ND for that matter. Seems hard for people my age (mid 40s) to imagine, but I think that's the case.

 

[NFBuck]

The year 2001 is actually a pretty good choice for this generation of recruits coming through. In 2001 they were pre-schoolers. Not terribly likely to have been up to speed on the landscape of college football at the time. As they've aged and become aware of the college football landscape, they've seen an irrelevant Michigan. And an irrelevant ND for that matter. Seems hard for people my age (mid 40s) to imagine, but I think that's the case.

But Harbrau.

 

[Buckeye86]

The "Michigan brand" this millennium:

110-66 record, .625 winning percentage. Michigan honks endlessly remind us that they are the winningest CFB program of all time, but since 2001 they are only #29.

2-12 record in The Game.

2 Big Ten titles, and none since 2004.

3-8 in bowl games, including 1-3 in BCS bowl games.

This is the "Michigan brand" that recruits know, and apparently do not love.

Harbrau's genius plan to ignore local recruits while bringing in as many cast offs transfers from other schools as possible will no doubt rectify the situation in the shortest order.

Also important to reemphasize this is totally a genius plan and not last minute damage control in response to The Harbrau instantly alienating 95% of people he interacts with.

 

[Dryden]

- Harbaugh is either the best coach in football or at worst, a top-3 coach. At any level. Which makes him better than all/most of these guys: Belichick, Carroll, Meyer, Saban. You can make a strong case that he's not the best coach with his last name.

I'm not sure he's one of the three best coaches in his own house when the family comes over for Thanksgiving.

 

[DiamondBuck]

I'm not sure he's one of the three best coaches in his own house when the family comes over for Thanksgiving.

Okay... I'll bite:

1. John
2. Jack
3. Jay
4. Jim
5. Ladies Frames?

 

[Dryden]

5. Ladies Frames?

1. Won a lot at a mid level program with little pressure and some surprising talent.

2. Appeared he would win big at his next stop, a tradition rich power that had fallen on hard times, before it all fell to shit.

3. Is, at best, bipolar, though probably really just a arrogant, aloof, hyper competitive jack hole that is categorically insane.

I think they may be tied.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

1. Won a lot at a mid level program with little pressure and some surprising talent.

2. Appeared he would win big at his next stop, a tradition rich power that had fallen on hard times, before it all fell to [Mark May].

3. Is, at best, bipolar, though probably really just a arrogant, aloof, hyper competitive jack hole that is categorically insane.

I think they may be tied.

Yeah, but Jimbo isn't half as creepy even if he is twice as scary.