tOSU's BCS Bowl possibilities

[FWBuckeye]

Great Point...LT, Big Ben, TO, and the list can go on and on...But lets be honest...Thats all those teams had! Miami of Ohio had Big Ben....Georgia has that type of guy at qb plus they have moreno, great duo at reciever, and studs at linebackers...Same with Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Penn State, LSU, Florida, UCS and so on...Great talent is definetly found in the mid major buts its not its not in numbers compared to the big boys

I think the scholarship limit has balanced things out a bit more in recent years which is why the mid major teams have been deeper and more competitive.

I'm not going to discredit a mid major team that is undefeated just because they are a mid major. Who is to say that Boise State wouldn't have beaten Florida or Ohio State during the 2006 season when they were the only undefeated team in the nation. Nobody can give us an answer to that because the system didn't allow them to have the opportunity to play those teams. College football is the only sport where, for some teams, if you take care of business, you have no shot at winning a national championship. If college baseball used a system similar to the BCS, Fresno State would not have even had a shot at playing for a national championship.

I know everyone likes to say that Utah barely beat Michigan so there is no way they could beat a team like Texas. That doesn't fly with me. How many teams did Ohio State barely beat in 2002, some of the wins even being extremely lucky? Several. Nobody gave us a chance against Miami and we came out of that game national champions. You never know what the outcome is going to be between two opponents until they play. Utah, Boise State, and Ball State have done everything they can possibly do. Who is to say those teams wouldn't beat a team like Alabama. It's a shame that Utah is probably going to be playing in the Orange Bowl against a sub par Big East or ACC team, they could win the game convincingly, and everyone would still dog on them. They've done everything they can do at that point, the system just sucks.

 

[Elephant]

I think the scholarship limit has balanced things out a bit more in recent years which is why the mid major teams have been deeper and more competitive.

I'm not going to discredit a mid major team that is undefeated just because they are a mid major. Who is to say that Boise State wouldn't have beaten Florida or Ohio State during the 2006 season when they were the only undefeated team in the nation. Nobody can give us an answer to that because the system didn't allow them to have the opportunity to play those teams. College football is the only sport where, for some teams, if you take care of business, you have no shot at winning a national championship. If college baseball used a system similar to the BCS, Fresno State would not have even had a shot at playing for a national championship.

I know everyone likes to say that Utah barely beat Michigan so there is no way they could beat a team like Texas. That doesn't fly with me. How many teams did Ohio State barely beat in 2002, some of the wins even being extremely lucky? Several. Nobody gave us a chance against Miami and we came out of that game national champions. You never know what the outcome is going to be between two opponents until they play. Utah, Boise State, and Ball State have done everything they can possibly do. Who is to say those teams wouldn't beat a team like Alabama. It's a shame that Utah is probably going to be playing in the Orange Bowl against a sub par Big East or ACC team, they could win the game convincingly, and everyone would still dog on them. They've done everything they can do at that point, the system just sucks.

I'll agree with that.. Talent is more spread out but is it enough to make a a BYU, TCU, Utah, and Ball state competitive with the big boys all in 1 year? I don't know and we will never know. In the meantime, Im forced to watch a Georgia vs. Hawaii game in most cases. I pray that i see a Boise State vs. Oklahoma type game but chances are your not going to see that happen too often.

Not going to agree with the baseball analogy though...Baseball is the one sport where the scholarship limit has hit hard. They can only pass out what 12 or 13 total? And most of those go to pitchers. Hell there are juco teams out there that can smack around D1 schools easily.

 

[FWBuckeye]

I'll agree with that.. Talent is more spread out but is it enough to make a a BYU, TCU, Utah, and Ball state competitive with the big boys all in 1 year? I don't know and we will never know. In the meantime, Im forced to watch a Georgia vs. Hawaii game in most cases. I pray that i see a Boise State vs. Oklahoma type game but chances are your not going to see that happen too often.

Not going to agree with the baseball analogy though...Baseball is the one sport where the scholarship limit has hit hard. They can only pass out what 12 or 13 total? And most of those go to pitchers. Hell there are juco teams out there that can smack around D1 schools easily.

Some non BCS schools have had quite a bit of success against some of the big boys in college football in the last decade. It happens more often than you might think. Teams like USC, Oklahoma (one of Stoops two losses in Norman), West Virginia, Penn State, Oregon, Texas Tech, and Wisconsin just to name a few. All schools that have had a lot of success this decade have all lost games to these so called inferior programs. Many of these "big boys" as well as many others have multiple losses to non BCS schools over the last decade.

 

[Elephant]

Some non BCS schools have had quite a bit of success against some of the big boys in college football in the last decade. It happens more often than you might think. Teams like USC, Oklahoma (one of Stoops two losses in Norman), West Virginia, Penn State, Oregon, Texas Tech, and Wisconsin just to name a few. All schools that have had a lot of success this decade have all lost games to these so called inferior programs. Many of these "big boys" as well as many others have multiple losses to non BCS schools over the last decade.

True...Let me ask ya this..Most of these losses have probably occurred during the first 3 weeks or so of the football season..Probably playing them before a big game more than likely. Lets be honest..Even the big boys have let downs. Those teams you mentioned texas tech, wisconsin, penn state, oklahoma, and so on..Lets say we tell those teams that they have can win the national title against Akron the 3rd week of the year. Now tell me how often those games are going to be lost now by big teams. True, a loss is a loss but I would like to see the overall record of mac type teams or wac or whatever vs. big time schools. True they have upset a number of them but whats the win loss record of those type of matchups (look at the big picture). This debate has too many sides to argue from.. I can see your point though for sure

 

[JXC]

True...Let me ask ya this..Most of these losses have probably occurred during the first 3 weeks or so of the football season..Probably playing them before a big game more than likely. Lets be honest..Even the big boys have let downs. Those teams you mentioned texas tech, wisconsin, penn state, oklahoma, and so on..Lets say we tell those teams that they have can win the national title against Akron the 3rd week of the year. Now tell me how often those games are going to be lost now by big teams. True, a loss is a loss but I would like to see the overall record of mac type teams or wac or whatever vs. big time schools. True they have upset a number of them but whats the win loss record of those type of matchups (look at the big picture). This debate has too many sides to argue from.. I can see your point though for sure

I think it'd be fun to play in an Orange Bowl one day.

 

[jwinslow]

A vote against Utah...

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

True...Let me ask ya this..Most of these losses have probably occurred during the first 3 weeks or so of the football season..Probably playing them before a big game more than likely. Lets be honest..Even the big boys have let downs. Those teams you mentioned texas tech, wisconsin, penn state, oklahoma, and so on..Lets say we tell those teams that they have can win the national title against Akron the 3rd week of the year. Now tell me how often those games are going to be lost now by big teams. True, a loss is a loss but I would like to see the overall record of mac type teams or wac or whatever vs. big time schools. True they have upset a number of them but whats the win loss record of those type of matchups (look at the big picture). This debate has too many sides to argue from.. I can see your point though for sure

And Utah's terrible game against Michigan that everyone is holding against them was in the, oh yeah, first game of the season. Even Utah has let downs.

We are going to punish Utah for winning a close game at Michigan, but give Florida a pass for losing at home to Ole Miss? That seems a little backwards to me. As FW pointed out, how many close games did tOSU win against inferior opponents in 2002? If this exact same roster with this exact same schedule and these exact same results was called Ohio State, or even Minnesota, or Arizona, or Kansas State, or Mississippi State, they would be #2 in all the human polls, and if they couldn't overcome the computer rankings to make it to the title game and some other one-loss team got it instead, there would be outrage among college football fans.

I think discounting Utah would be very unfair, and foolish, and would love to see them (and Ball State for that matter) have a shot at the BCS title. If they get blown out, they get blown out. But they at least deserve the chance to play. They have earned that.

 

[Elephant]

And Utah's terrible game against Michigan that everyone is holding against them was in the, oh yeah, first game of the season. Even Utah has let downs.

We are going to punish Utah for winning a close game at Michigan, but give Florida a pass for losing at home to Ole Miss? That seems a little backwards to me. As FW pointed out, how many close games did tOSU win against inferior opponents in 2002? If this exact same roster with this exact same schedule and these exact same results was called Ohio State, or even Minnesota, or Arizona, or Kansas State, or Mississippi State, they would be #2 in all the human polls, and if they couldn't overcome the computer rankings to make it to the title game and some other one-loss team got it instead, there would be outrage among college football fans.

I think discounting Utah would be very unfair, and foolish, and would love to see them (and Ball State for that matter) have a shot at the BCS title. If they get blown out, they get blown out. But they at least deserve the chance to play. They have earned that.

Okay...So giving Utah a shot and Ball State a shot at the title....So if you decide to do that then are we going to give a shot everytime one of these teams go undefeated? We may never see a true national championship type game ever again with that logic. There is a reason these teams like Utah and Ball State go undefeated. They are clearly better than their schedule, which means they play no one. Utah played no one this year. The one team that should have beaten them was terrible (michigan).

Comparing Ohio State of 2002 is not a good example....Big time program playing a big time schedule that year with solid teams on there.

 

[Steve19]

Computer rankings and strict comparisons of opponent win-loss records aren't everything, but it does let us be a bit more rigorous in our discussion.

I think part of the answer to this debate lies in restoring the margin of victory to the computer models, albeit with rapidly diminishing returns after a margin of victory of some appropriate number.

Utah looks very good in the computer models, until you look at the Sagarin predictor, which is the most accurate model. In that model, they rank only #14, well below Ohio State at #10.

Ball State doesn't look good in any of the models, ranking #25 in the Sagarin predictor and only #18 in the most lenient model. So, in my mind, they are not in the same conversation as Utah this year.

Considering Utah, BYU looks like their most recent quality win but BYU played teams with a combined record of 67-73. Discounting Northern Iowa (FCS, lower division and their own weak schedule), BYU played teams with a combine record of 57-71 (44%).

If TCU is your quality win of choice, consider that they played only 4 teams with a winning record and lost two of those games (Oklahoma and Utah). They played teams with a combined 71-71 schedule and when you drop FCS Stephen Austin, they played a schedule with a combined 67-63 record (52%).

Utah played 6 teams with a winning record and a schedule with a combined 71-71 record. Discounting FCS Weber State, the combined record is 62-68 (47%).

How does Ohio State compare? We played 7 teams with a winning record, losing two of those. Michigan State and Northwestern would probably count as quality wins, but we lost to both top ten teams we played. Our combined schedule had a record of 78-62. Discounting Youngstown State (FCS), we played teams with a 74-54 record (58%).

In all of the meaningful computer rankings, our SOS is much higher than Utah or Ball State--there is no comparison.

So, in my opinion, if any of these teams deserves to play in a BCS bowl, then Ohio State would be the most qualified but I don't think even they have a strong argument to be there.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

They "earned it?"

Show me their annual budget, how much they've spent on football over the years. Then compare that to the amount a scratch the "big" programs have spent over the same time frame.

Then we'll talk about what's been "earned" Utah probably makes more going to the BCS than is their annual athletic budget. And, truthfully, I have no idea if that statement is an exaggeration or not. Point is, these schools all want a bite of the big money pie, but don't want to pay for it.

Fuck them.

 

[BB73]

am i correct in this?

we have two possibilities right now. fiesta vs UT or cap1 vs UGA. if that is correct i don't see how we lose (from an entertainment standpoint). both of those would be wonderful football games to watch and to attend!

The Sugar is still a possibility, the opponent probably being the Bama-Florida loser.

That could happen if Oregon beats Oregon State, putting USC in the Rose, and if the Fiesta picks an undefeated, nearby Utah team to face the Big 12 rep, which could be either Texas or Oklahoma.

To summarize: If Oregon State wins, tOSU goes to the Capital One, most likely against Georgia.

If Oregon State loses to Oregon, tOSU would probably face either Texas or Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl, but a Sugar Bowl agasinst the Bama-Florida loser is a possibility.

 

[muffler dragon]

You mean to tell me a mormon school has more talent than a georgia or an ohio state? yea believe it or not that does play a factor. They don't have steve young back there. If they did I would be be singing a different tune. Schools like TCU, UTAH, and BYU don't get top talent...they can't...the big boys do...If you put those teams in major conference such as the big 12, sec, and the big 10 and they wouldn't be where they are now and the only reason they are where they are at now is because of schedule. Hell the local high school team down the road from here is 12-0 so do they deserve a shot at the BCS?

The MWAC is 6-1 against the Pac-10 this year. Enough said.

Getting back to the original fallacy, your denigration of BYU because of its religious affiliation is a farce. There are pockets of talent throughout the US where young Mormon men are quite good. Does this mean they are elite? Not necessarily; however, they play for a pride and passion (and sometimes inferiority complex) that allows them to compete at a very high level.

I'm not a MWAC alum nor apologist, and I'm not even Mormon; but your argument doesn't have legs.

Provide nothing...I know a good deal of coaches in this state from the college level all the way to the pro level. Not going to get into this, especially with you or anyone else on a web site.

Yet, another fallacy.

[sarcasm]Way to present valid points of view. :thumbsup: [/sarcasm]

 

[muffler dragon]

Sorry muffler dragon - definitely a weekend for Bucks to cheer Ducks.

LOL! I understand why it's beneficial to root for the Ducks. I just have chosen my in-state allegiance. 'Tis all.

 

[Steve19]

The MWAC is 6-1 against the Pac-10 this year. Enough said.

...your denigration of BYU because of its religious affiliation is a farce.



[sarcasm]Way to present valid points of view. :thumbsup: [/sarcasm]

You make some good points, but I have a different perspective that you may want to consider.

The PAC10 is in a real down year and are the #6 conference in the power ratings, just ahead of the Mountain West. Let's be frank. Neither conference is much good this year, with the exception of a couple of teams and the MW guys played far weaker schedules.

I just looked to see who MW teams beat in the PAC10. I see five wins, so maybe I am missing one? Doesn't matter, BYU beat Washington (0-10) and UCLA (4-6), New Mexico beat Arizona (6-4), TCU beat Stanford (5-6), Utah beat Oregon State (7-3). So, one quality win in the bunch? Not much for bragging rights, is it?

On the other hand, look at their power ratings and SOS, which I summarized earlier.

The MW really doesn't have much of a case to make.

 

[BayBuck]

The lone emboldened word shows just how poor you are at debate/discussion.

O RLY?