tOSU Linebackers History (Merged)

[Purity]

that isn't the whole story, though... the O was struggling BIG TIME, which put the D on the field for long stretches of time... nah, i just had a second thought. how much do you know about football? where is the game won? the answer is IN THE TRENCHES. i don't care if you have Lawrence Taylor back there, if the D-line struggles, the whole Defense struggles... how do you think that Tate and Basanez were able to light us up? it certainly wasn't because the LBers were playing poorly...

perhaps you forget that Hawk was #2 in the Big Ten with 141 tackles.
Carpenter had over 90 tackles
Schlegal had 84 tackles...

trust me when i state that Greenway and Hodge will not be as productive in '05 as they were in '04...

I don't want to question the ability of your linebackers, but do you think it is a possibility that their numer of tackles could be as a result of your defensive line not making the tackles that Smith, Anderson, and Scott were previously making? When a previous back in '03 would have been stopped at the line, in '04 they were able to break into the second level.

 

[jwinslow]

Not any more unfair than it is to D'Andrea. Mike was really starting to tear it up early...had he stayed healthy and kept at that level, folks would be talking about how we have the three best LBs in the country all starting next to each other.

Actually it's quite a bit more unfair to Greenway. Yay for mDa that he had a couple of good games. I'm pulling for the guy to make it back this year. But the fact is he has not done it, and greenway has, and that is all that matters. You can say that mDa could prove you right this year, but there is simply no comparison between the two to this point.

How doesn't he compare? He's faster than either of them, and although he's smaller than Carpenter, at 6'1" and 250 he's no runt (and is 15 pounds heavier than Greenway along with being faster).

Sorry, I thought I had remembered greenway being 245. I was moreso speaking about the height issue, for when he has to matchup with the monsters at TE in the pros.s

I don't want to question the ability of your linebackers, but do you think it is a possibility that their numer of tackles could be as a result of your defensive line not making the tackles that Smith, Anderson, and Scott were previously making? When a previous back in '03 would have been stopped at the line, in '04 they were able to break into the second level.

we're not arguing that. We're arguing that if your DL is ineffective, your talent at LBer is suddenly much less useful. And for your example, Wilhelm was an AA lber.

 

[lvbuckeye]

I don't want to question the ability of your linebackers, but do you think it is a possibility that their numer of tackles could be as a result of your defensive line not making the tackles that Smith, Anderson, and Scott were previously making? When a previous back in '03 would have been stopped at the line, in '04 they were able to break into the second level.

sure, that's a possibility, but it's not the reality of the situation... except for Marshall early last season, it was not so much a matter of not being able to stop the run or tackle ball carriers, it was in inability to get to the quarterback, and even moreso an inability to stop mobile QBs... the NU game and the game at Iowa are shining examples of the D-line causing the back seven all kinds of trouble due to the lack of production...

however, it must be noted that when you have two D-linemen who need double teams, as Iowa did last year, it certainly frees up the LBers to just wreak havok and tackle people... they don't have to worry about shedding blockers, because no blockers are getting to the second level... which is why they could have more numbers this year, but the unit will not be as productive...

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Not any more unfair than it is to D'Andrea. Mike was really starting to tear it up early...had he stayed healthy and kept at that level, folks would be talking about how we have the three best LBs in the country all starting next to each other.

how is it unfair to MDA? he's the one who got hurt, Greenway didn't.

 

[buckeyeboy]

I don't want to question the ability of your linebackers, but do you think it is a possibility that their numer of tackles could be as a result of your defensive line not making the tackles that Smith, Anderson, and Scott were previously making?

Not to be a wise *ss, but no, I don't think that's a possibility. Matt Wilhelm was first team AP All-American as an LB playing behind Smith, Anderson, and Scott in '02.

And for your example, Wilhelm was an AA lber.

Shoot. I thought I jumped on that one first. Good catch, jwinslow.

 

[zincfinger]

I don't want to question the ability of your linebackers, but do you think it is a possibility that their number of tackles could be as a result of your defensive line not making the tackles that Smith, Anderson, and Scott were previously making? When a previous back in '03 would have been stopped at the line, in '04 they were able to break into the second level.

There's no need to treat this as a hypothetical, particularly as regards Hawk, since he was in fact a starting OLB in '03 behind Smith, Anderson, and Scott. The fact that he was every bit as successful in '03 as he was in '04 puts this suggestion to bed. This point doesn't apply as directly for the others (obviously, since Schlegel didn't play in '03, and Carpenter and D'Andrea were backups, albeit solid ones - D'Andrea, sort of, he actually split time with Pagac and had some injury issues) but watching those guys play together last year demonstrated that their talents, particularly Carpenter's, are in the same ballpark.

 

[CausticMick]

Objectively, who is to say he wouldn't beat out Carpenter or Hawk?

Greenway wouldn't beat out any of them. Why? tOSU would adapt to personnel and run a 3-4 defense. It would suit our D-Line better anyhow.

Looks good to me in this order...
To maintain the trend of way off the wall comments in this thread, does anyone else think A.J. Hawk looks like Woody Harrelson?
:topic:

 

[7 45 33 48]

MililaniBuckeye,
Schlegel would have started over D'Andrea by the 2nd half of the season. He was outperforming D'Andrea by the NC State game. I didn't see much improvement in D'Andrea mentally in 2004. D'Andrea time is running out and he just hasn't shown me the instincts to have a significant impact at middle linebacker. I think it took a while for Schlegel to get acclimated because he was out an entire season. Schlegel still was 3rd in tackles, 2nd in sacks and 1st in TFL on the team while not making a start until game 5.

This is not tearing it up. (UA-A-Total)

D'Andrea:
Cincinnati 1-3-4
Marshall 2-3-5
NC State 3-0-3
Northwestern 1-0-1


Schlegel
Cincinnati 0-2-2
Marshall 2-1-3
NC State 4-1-5
Northwestern 1-4-5
Wisconsin 2-7-9
Iowa 13-2-15
Indiana 2-8-10
Penn State 7-3-10
Michigan State 3-0-3
Purduen 6-6-12
Michigan 2-3-5
Okalahoma State 4-1-5

I take it the Northwestern game was when D'Andrea got injured. Take that game out and D'Andrea averaged 4 tackles a game while Schlegel averaged 7. Yes, Schlegel is a 2 down linebacker but his pass defense is not that important when you got all around linebackers like Carpenter and Hawk. Wasn't D'Andrea taken out on 3rd and long also? D'Andrea may have the physical attributes to be an outstanding linebacker but at the stage Schlegel is better than him. I would love to see D'Andrea try strong side linebacker if he gets that 5th year. Maybe that position will fit his freakish weight room numbers better.

 

[Taosman]

LBers used as rush ends.

I have a strong feeling we'll see one of our stud LBers used as a pass rush DE this year! I'm not sold on our DEs. For a speed rusher, I'll take Carp or more likely Freeman coming fast off the edge. Why not use Freeman or Carp in this capacity?

 

[crzykillernut]

I've defintely heard rumblings of both, of course I have no inside information whatsoever. My bet, would be Freeman over Carp, just to keep carp in middle 3.

I think getting Freeman on the field in this capacity, for a high-pass % down, is a very good move. Of course, just my opinion.

 

[bukIpower]

well theres a couple obvious reasons Taosman

1) Any of our linebackers aren't as big or adapted to rushing the edge like a pure Defensive end would be. Sure Carpenter is 255 but Richardson is like 280 and has been doing the rush end spot now for a while

2) Its very obvious in certain situations if we line up a LB'er at Defensive end giving the offense a chance to realize what we're actually doing

3) Our secondary is tremendous. Why does this matter? Because our secondary will be very hard to get around this year particually across the middle. This will create alot of extra time for our ends/interior line to work.

4) If our line is indeed struggling because of our talented secondary if we leave our Linebackers where they're at we can blitz a team from so many angles and positions that the offense won't know what the hell is going on. However if we move a Lb'er to end the offense knows exactly where he's going to be at all times.

While think it'd be interesting to see Carp once in a while line up something in a hybrid DE position. The Ends were young last year so lets give them a chance to see if they can do the trick, and if they can't I think it'd prolly be more effective jsut to blitz alittle more often to create the pressure. Especially since our secondary won't need as much help form the linebackers this year.

 

[High Lonesome]

1) Any of our linebackers aren't as big or adapted to rushing the edge like a pure Defensive end would be. Sure Carpenter is 255 but Richardson is like 280 and has been doing the rush end spot now for a while

If you are as good of athletes as your LB's are you can be taught to rush the qb. By the way Jason Taylor is maybe 260 and an al Pro. you do not need to be 280 to be a rush end

2) Its very obvious in certain situations if we line up a LB'er at Defensive end giving the offense a chance to realize what we're actually doing

actually moving a more athletic man to the DE spot allows you to do more things not less. i.e. zone blitzes and stunts, moving to a 3-4 in mid cadance

3) Our secondary is tremendous. Why does this matter? Because our secondary will be very hard to get around this year particually across the middle. This will create alot of extra time for our ends/interior line to work.

It is tough to ask even the best secondaries to cover for more than a few seconds. If you are truely having trouble getting a good rush(don't have to get sacks but make the qb think about you) then your secondary will struggle at times.

4) If our line is indeed struggling because of our talented secondary if we leave our Linebackers where they're at we can blitz a team from so many angles and positions that the offense won't know what the hell is going on. However if we move a Lb'er to end the offense knows exactly where he's going to be at all times.

See my response to #2 and #3

The Ends were young last year so lets give them a chance to see if they can do the trick, and if they can't I think it'd prolly be more effective jsut to blitz alittle more often to create the pressure. Especially since our secondary won't need as much help form the linebackers this year.

Nothing wrong with this idea in my oppinion but if it is not working then moving an athletic LB to DE is not only an option it is probably what will happen. There is a reason that the highest paid players on defense in the NFL are Corners and Pass Rushers and its not because they are easy to find. These guys are typically two of your best athletes and huge parts of your success

 

[sandgk]

The Patriots seem to thrive by using LBs in a variety of non-traditional roles. I'd guess that aside from the physical demands a very bright and coachable athlete is a pre-requisite to bring this off to perfection.

 

[lvbuckeye]

I have a strong feeling we'll see one of our stud LBers used as a pass rush DE this year! I'm not sold on our DEs. For a speed rusher, I'll take Carp or more likely Freeman coming fast off the edge. Why not use Freeman or Carp in this capacity?

100% correct, though not all the time...
i just read an article today, though i can't remember where, that stated that the coaches will definitely use Carp as a rush end in certain situations, and that we will go with a 3-4 look at times in order to get Freeman on the field...
Kulda is solid at his strong side position, but the weak side will most certainly have a very interesting rotation...

Heacock and Fickell are very serious about attacking on D this year... i don't think that either one of them were happy with Snyder's passive style last year, and i don't think that the team OR the fans were really happy with it either...

we have the hosses, and we need to use them...

 

[jwinslow]

Nevada is talking about Freeman as a rush end, and mentioned carp too. A guy can play a rush end without being 280.