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"Top Senior" / NFL Lists (Is Troy Smith an NFL QB?)

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Ahiacitian said:
Regarding Troy's draft stock, I think that his draft stock might take a hit due to his off the field problems in his couple of year at Ohio State.
Click to expand...

He's not going to get dinged for issues that occurred during his fresh/soph years as long as he continues to mature and learn from his mistake.

ie If he doesn't screw up again it's a non-issue.
 
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Couple of things I want to add here.

#1) I do not believe you need gaudy numbers to win the Heisman. You need hype. Troy Smith, as QB for the preseason #1 team in the nation, well known for his leadership and his highlight reel plays, will get the hype. If he wants to win the Heisman, he cannot lose a game for us, and it would help if he won one. But he already has two UM games and the Fiesta Bowl in his corner to help his case, even though those are previous years.

#2) Troy Smith has exceeded VY's career path #s wise to date, but this is the year he falls short. That won't be due to his failings. That will be due to two things, #1 the stable of top notch running backs we have to tote the rock and #2 the Tresselball philosophy that will not allow us to run up the score on teams. Whoever the backups are this year at all positions, they will be getting a lot of time IMO. I think Troy could win Heisman, but he won't have over 2500 yards and 2000 might be pushing it.

#3) Here is my analysis of Smith from an NFL perspective
Pros
Excellent Leadership, Good Interview
Cannon for an arm, can make all the throws
Great escapability within the pocket (he started to prove this in UM game with Gonzo play and I think will continue to improve that)
Great understanding of game (with all his film study, he gets it now)
Tremendous experience at highest level (2+ years of starting experience)
No injury problems (assuming a clean year)
Experience and success in several different offensive sets, including pro style (I firmly believe with our RB stable, we will be in pro style much of the year)
Good speed for QB

Cons
Character (if he stays clean this year, this is probably a non issue, but if he doesn't, it is a big deal)
Size - he is a couple of inches too small
Heismann jinx :)
 
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Todd McShay's (Scouts) Top 12 Seniors:

--- these are rated by "NFL draft potential," not college achievements ---

Now that the 2006 NFL draft is in the books, it's time to take a look forward to next year's class. The following is a sneak peek at my initial list of the top 12 senior prospects for the 2007 draft:

1. Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
By returning to school for another season, Quinn avoided the logjam of quarterbacks that was atop the 2006 draft board. He also should benefit from another season of tutelage under head coach Charlie Weis, who performed magic with sixth-round pick Tom Brady as coordinator of the New England Patriots. Quinn enters his fourth season as a starter at Notre Dame and boasts an impressive blend of arm strength, size and leadership skills. If his coverage reads and prudence continue to progress at a similar pace in 2006, Quinn could become the top pick in next year's draft.

2. Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin
Thomas was rumored to be leaning toward leaving school early for the 2006 draft, for which he projected as a mid-to-late first-round pick. But his decision was made easy when he suffered a right knee injury in Wisconsin's win over Auburn in the Capital One Bowl. Coincidentally, the injury occurred while he was subbing in as a defensive tackle along the Badgers' injury-riddled defensive line. If Thomas can return to form after offseason rehabilitation, he could become the top offensive lineman off next year's draft board.

3. Drew Stanton, QB, Michigan State
Stanton shows the potential to emerge as a dynamic starting quarterback in the NFL. He has all the physical tools, including the size, arm strength and athletic ability. Most important, Stanton has the "it" factor, showing rare intangibles as a leader and competitor. Durability has been an issue in the past. But if he can stay on the field and perform more consistently in 2006, Stanton will become Quinn's biggest competitor for top-dog honors in the 2007 draft.

4. Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
Bush rushed for 1,143 yards and 23 touchdowns on 205 carries as a junior in 2005 despite missing two games with an ankle sprain. On top of his outstanding combination of size and speed, Bush shows good versatility as a receiver and blocker. Bush grades out as the top senior running back prospect in next year's draft class and could give Oklahoma RB Adrian Peterson a run for his money should Peterson elect to leave school after his junior year.

5. Paul Posluszny, OLB, Penn State
Posluszny tore two ligaments in his right knee during Penn State's victory over Florida State in this year's Orange Bowl, but the injury did not require surgery. If he can rebound fully and continue to dominate the college ranks the way he did with 116 total tackles as a junior last season, Posluszny could be the top linebacker selected in the 2007 draft.

6. Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
Adams was seriously considering taking the NFL plunge, but he was getting mixed signals from the league's advisory board, his college coaches, potential agents and other counselors. Instead of risking disappointment, Adams made the wise decision to return to Clemson for his final season in 2006. If he picks up where he left off as a junior (15 tackles for loss, including 9½ sacks), Adams will rank among the top defensive prospects in the 2007 class.

7. Kenny Irons, RB, Auburn
After breaking out with 1,259 rushing yards in Auburn's final 10 games last season, Irons has emerged as a legitimate prospect to monitor at running back next year. With a good combination of size and speed to go with his punishing north-south running style, Irons could be a perfect fit for teams employing power-run offensive schemes (see: Panthers and Steelers).

8. Justin Blalock, OT, Texas
Blalock is a monster of a man. Overshadowed by teammate Jonathan Scott the past couple of seasons, Blalock finally will get his due recognition as the best offensive lineman not only in Texas but arguably in the nation. Blalock might never be a great fit as a left tackle in the NFL, but he should quickly emerge as a dominant force on the right side. Quicker feet as a senior could land him in the top 10 of next year's draft.

9. LaRon Landry, DS, LSU
Landry has been terrorizing opposing quarterbacks and ball carriers since showing up on Baton Rouge's campus as a freshman in 2003. Three years later and with far more experience under his belt, Landry should rank among the elite defensive prospects in the 2007 draft. Landry checks in at only 190 pounds, but he fills hard versus the run and hits like a linebacker. Landry shows as much range as any safety in college football and is a true ball hawk with nine career interceptions leading up to his senior campaign. The NFL is looking for versatile playmakers at safety, and Landry embodies those qualities.

10. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia
Moses possesses impressive natural athleticism and continues to improve his size, strength and technique. He played basketball for the Bulldogs early in his collegiate career but has since turned his full focus to the gridiron. Moses played in a rotation early in his career but finally took over as a full-time starter once David Pollack moved on to the NFL (Bengals). In 2005, Moses had a breakout campaign with 44 tackles, 20½ tackles for loss and 11½ sacks. If he gets stronger versus the run while continuing to make a tremendous impact rushing the passer as a senior in 2006, Moses will earn himself a spot in the top half of the first round in next year's NFL draft.

11. Levi Brown, OT, Penn State
Brown began his career as a defensive tackle but moved to the offensive line as a redshirt freshman in 2003. He has been essentially a full-time starter since and will graduate with four years of starting experience. At 6-foot-5, 325 pounds, Brown has adequate mobility but still has room to improve in terms of his overall technique and foot quickness. Regardless whether it's on the left or right side, Brown projects as a starting offensive tackle in the NFL, which is why he ranks as one of the elite senior prospects early in the 2007 draft process.

12. Jeff Samardzija, WR, Notre Dame
Not heavily recruited out of high school, Samardzija has used his size, quickness, instincts, hands and toughness to overcome a lack of elite speed. Samardzija's draft stock is likely to slip once some of the supremely talented junior skills players get thrown into the mix, but another productive year like 2005 (77 catches, 1,249 yards, 15 TDs) could secure him a spot in the first round of next year's draft.
Click to expand...

As for Troy, McShay does have him in his Top-12 by position (includes underclassmen):

Quarterbacks:
1. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame
2. Brian Brohm*, Louisville
3. Drew Stanton, Michigan State
4. Jordan Palmer, UTEP
5. Kyle Wright*, Miami-Fla.
6. Chad Henne*, Michigan
7. Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh
8. Troy Smith, Ohio State
9. Trent Edwards, Stanford
10. John Beck, BYU
11. Chris Leak, Florida
12. Sam Kellar, Arizona State
 
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Dryden said:
Todd McShay's (Scouts) Top 12 Seniors:

--- these are rated by "NFL draft potential," not college achievements ---



As for Troy, McShay does have him in his Top-12 by position (includes underclassmen):

Quarterbacks:
1. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame
2. Brian Brohm*, Louisville
3. Drew Stanton, Michigan State
4. Jordan Palmer, UTEP
5. Kyle Wright*, Miami-Fla.
6. Chad Henne*, Michigan
7. Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh
8. Troy Smith, Ohio State
9. Trent Edwards, Stanford
10. John Beck, BYU
11. Chris Leak, Florida
12. Sam Kellar, Arizona State
Click to expand...

Of course I'm biased, but this is a terrible list. How the hell can you put Palmer, Wright, Henne, and Palko ahead of Troy? Of course I'm a pretty biased guy, and I think he's deserving of at least number 2, but that is one shitty list. I think that he's capable of being a great NFL QB, due to the fact that he is not only very mobile, but has great arm strength, as well. Once scouts get over the fact that he's too short (6'1"), then it'll be clear skies ahead.
 
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BCSBust said:
Of course I'm biased, but this is a terrible list. How the hell can you put Palmer, Wright, Henne, and Palko ahead of Troy? Of course I'm a pretty biased guy, and I think he's deserving of at least number 2, but that is one shitty list.
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Well, if you're following this thread, they're rated higher because they grew at least four inches taller than Troy did. :tongue2:

NOTE: I changed the thread title from "Kiper's Top 10 Seniors" to accomodate all the Top Lists that are coming out and omitting Troy as a realistic pick, not just in the first round of the 2007 draft, but apparently even the first day.
 
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Dryden said:
Todd McShay's (Scouts) Top 12 Seniors:

--- these are rated by "NFL draft potential," not college achievements ---



As for Troy, McShay does have him in his Top-12 by position (includes underclassmen):

Quarterbacks:
1. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame
2. Brian Brohm*, Louisville
3. Drew Stanton, Michigan State
4. Jordan Palmer, UTEP
5. Kyle Wright*, Miami-Fla.
6. Chad Henne*, Michigan
7. Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh
8. Troy Smith, Ohio State
9. Trent Edwards, Stanford
10. John Beck, BYU
11. Chris Leak, Florida
12. Sam Kellar, Arizona State
Click to expand...


:sick1: That list sucks.

1. Brady Quinn
2. Brian Brohm
3. Drew Stanton
4. Troy Smith

The rest I'm not too high on. I think Troy has as much potential as the 3 I listed above him but I gave them the edge due to height. Tyler Palko and Kyle Wright are big WTF's. What the hell has Kyle Wright done besides have one great game against a crappy Wake Forest team? Shame on you, Todd.
 
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Henne ahead of Smith? GTFOH. Let's make some comparisons:

Career record as starter:
Henne: 16-8
Smith: 13-2

Bowl record:
Henne: 0-2
Smith: 1-0

Head-to-head:
Henne: 0-2
Smith: 2-0

2005 Passing stats:
Henne: 223-382-8 (58.38%), 2526 yards, 23 TD, 129.6 rating (#50)
Smith: 149-237-4 (62.87%), 2282 yards, 16 TD, 162.7 rating (#4)

2005 Total offense:
Henne: 212.6 ypg (#60)
Smith: 263.0 ypg (#23)

Yeah, Henne's the better guy at the QB position... :roll1:
 
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I'm sure Palko will play his way off this list. Dave Wannstedt has never met a QB that's not been made stupider for Wanny having coached him.

Exhibit A: Chicago Bears
Exhibit B: Miami Dolphins
Exhibit C: University of Pittsburgh ?
 
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2 things work against Troy being an early round pick.

1) height

only 2 QB's in last 9 years 6'1" or shorter in the 1st round (Vick, Grossman)

2) The NFL shows no love for Big Ten QB's,,,

Since 1990 when Jeff George went #1 overall There has only been 1 QB from the big ten taken in the 1st round (Kerry Collins in '95)

and only 5 others on the 1st day ((Drew Brees 2nd rd in '01, Brian Greise 3rd in '96, Bobby Hoying 3rd in '96, Todd Collins 2nd in '95 and Tony Sacca 2nd in '92. That's 16 drafts and only 6 Big Ten QB's on day 1.


Neither bodes well for Troy almost no matter what his stats look like.
 
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OregonBuckeye said:
:sick1: That list sucks.

1. Brady Quinn
2. Brian Brohm
3. Drew Stanton
4. Troy Smith

The rest I'm not too high on. I think Troy has as much potential as the 3 I listed above him but I gave them the edge due to height. Tyler Palko and Kyle Wright are big WTF's. What the hell has Kyle Wright done besides have one great game against a crappy Wake Forest team? Shame on you, Todd.
Click to expand...

I agree w/ your list. I think Troy can move into first round status-between picks 10 and 25-if he has a year similar to the last few games of last season. I see absolutely no reason to believe that "Tresselball" will hang him up in the least-he will get plenty of opportunity to throw the ball deep, and as far as not running up points on opponents-Tressel lets the
Buckeye starters get into the 40s if they are on a roll. There is a big difference between beating a bad Big 10 team 45-13 and pounding SW Arkansas Bible College (or Baylor) 77-0. If I were drafting right now, I would give the edge to Stanton, based on the fact that he does have a better body of work, career-wise, than Smith. That could change after this year. If his knee is healthy, I think Brohm is a more skilled passer than Quinn
 
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Kiper debuts his 2007 Big Board -- finally featuring ... uh, Quinn Pitcock? :huh:

1. Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame (6-4, 231)
2005: 64.9 completion pct., 3,919 passing yards, 32 TD-7 INT

2. Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson (6-5, 260)
2005: 9½ sacks, 15 tackles for loss

3. Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin (6-8, 306)
2005: First Team All-Big Ten

4. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn St. (6-2, 229)
2005: Team-high 116 tackles, 3 sacks

5. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia (6-5, 250)
2005: 11½ sacks, 20½ tackles for loss

6. Michael Bush, RB, Louisville (6-3, 250)
2005: 1,143 rushing yards, 23 TD

7. Jeff Samardzija, WR, Notre Dame (6-4, 231)
2005: 78 receptions, 1,274 yards, 15 TD

8. LaRon Landry, DB, LSU (6-2, 204)
2005: All-SEC for third straight year

9. Tim Crowder, DE, Texas (6-4, 270)
2005: First Team All-Big 12

10. Brandon Meriweather, DB, Miami (6-0, 188)
2005: Led team with career-high 115 tackles

11. Drew Stanton, QB, Michigan St. (6-3, 230)
2005: 66.5 completion pct., 3,077 yards, 22 TD-12 INT

12. Kenny Irons, RB, Auburn (5-11, 200)
2005: 1,293 rushing yards, 13 TD

13. LaMarr Woodley, DE, Michigan (6-2, 268)
2005: 7 sacks, 14 tackles for loss

14. Levi Brown, OT, Penn St. (6-5, 324)
2005: First Team All-Big Ten

15. Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St. (6-1, 200)
2005: 1 INT, 7 pass breakups

16. Michael Griffin, DB, Texas (6-0, 205)
2005: 3 INT, team-high 124 tackles

17. Ryan Harris, OT, Notre Dame (6-5, 288)
2005: Started all 12 games (32 straight starts)

18. Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska (6-6, 280)
2005: 9 ½ sacks, 17 tackles for loss

19. Rufus Alexander, LB, Oklahoma (6-1, 231)
2005: 17 tackles for loss; team-high 102 tackles

20. Leon Hall, CB, Michigan (5-11, 193)
2005: Team-high 4 INT

21. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio St. (6-3, 295)
2005: 28 tackles, 3 tackles for loss

22. Victor Abiamiri, DE, Notre Dame (6-4, 260)
2005: Team-high 8 sacks, 15 tackles for loss

23. Justin Blalock, OT, Texas (6-4, 329)
2005: First Team All-Big 12

24. Jason Hill, WR, Washington St. (6-1, 210)
2005: 62 receptions, 1,097 yards, 13 TD

25. Patrick Willis, LB, Mississippi (6-2, 230)
2005: Led SEC in tackles per game (12.8)
Click to expand...
 
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stxbuck said:
Seriously, are you surprised he has Pitcock ranked that way-either too high or too low?
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I was more surprised when NFLDraftScout had Pitcock ranked 10th overall. I suppose in the 20's is more reasonable to start the season.

Really, I just find it humorous that a team could have skill players like Smith, Ginn, Gonzo, Pittman, and Wells ... and the only Buckeye who can crack a "Top" list is Pitcock.

If you went to the fan bases of the other 116 D1A schools and said that Ohio State's best returning player and surest lock for a 1st round draft pick is Quinn Pitcock -- you'd be laughed at, then asked, "Who the hell is Quinn Pitcock?"
 
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