Tim Tebow (Blessed)

[BB73]

You have no idea how Leinart would have fared at BC or vice versa. I think both still would have fared well.

We can do the same thing in the NFL. How would Peyton Manning fare with a team like Detroit over his career instead of Indy?

Also according to this logic I can say that Joe Flacco would have been a better QB at tOSU instead of Troy Smith.

The last three QB's you used were system QBs. No one here is saying that a Hawaii or Texas Tech QB is on a Top 10 list. I think most of us can tell the difference.

Just to be ornery, I said earlier today, in this thread, that Brennan and Harrell were both on Mandel's top-10 list.

Stewart Mandel uses fantasy football scoring to compare Tebow to other QBs of the past 25 years.

His rankings yield these scores (combining 3 charts of his):

01. 983.38 Pat White
02. 898.20 Vince Young
03. 859.28 Colt Brennan
04. 843.90 Matt Leinart
05. 831.00 Tim Tebow (still in college)
06. 828.55 Eric Crouch
07. 826.59 Graham Harrell
08. 793.09 Colt McCoy (still in college)
09. 781.58 Danny Wuerfful
10. 772.30 Ty Detmer
11. 766.61 Chase Daniel
12. 740.51 Peyton Manning
13. 736.56 Tommy Frazier
14. 695.97 Ken Dorsey

The scoring methodology is in the quote below. Sorry, Jax, but he didn't include Brad Smith.

SI.com

 

[NextBuck]

Just to be ornery, I said earlier today, in this thread, that Harrell was on Mandel's top-10 list.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You have no idea how Leinart would have fared at BC or vice versa. I think both still would have fared well.

Which is where the whole NFL thing comes in. If Leinart's talent is so transmutable why does he wear a baseball cap for a living? Ryan otoh has a decent college career and easily makes the jump to the NFL.

You switch them in college and I'm confident the cardinals could waste a draft pick on someone else because no one ever hears of Leinart.

We can do the same thing in the NFL. How would Peyton Manning fare with a team like Detroit over his career instead of Indy?

Probably about the same as Marino did on all those bad Miami teams. A legitimate all time great will rises to the top.

Also according to this logic I can say that Joe Flacco would have been a better QB at tOSU instead of Troy Smith.

He may very well have been. Using your logic Krenzel was a better college QB than Manning because he won a NC.

The last three QB's you used were system QBs. No one here is saying that a Hawaii or Texas Tech QB is on a Top 10 list. I think most of us can tell the difference.

Humor me then and tell me how they were system QB's but St. Tebow isn't?

 

[NextBuck]

Humor me then and tell me how they were system QB's but St. Tebow isn't?

Timmy Chang attempted 602 passes his senior year.
Colt Brennan attempted 510 passes his senior year.
Graham Harrell attempted 413 his senior year and 710 in his junior year.
BJ Symons attempted 719 passes his senior year.

Last year Tebow only attempted 298 and in his sophomore year he attempted 350.

System QB's are the offense. Tebow has shared the ball with guys like Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin, Deshawn Wynn, Emmanuel Moody, etc.

Tebow attempted under 20 passes six times last year, and only attempted over 30 passes twice.

He doesnt throw the ball a shit load of times to get great stats. He is far from a system QB like what we see in guys from Texas Tech, Hawaii, and old school Houston/BYU.

He may very well have been. Using your logic Krenzel was a better college QB than Manning because he won a NC.

No it doesnt. Just because Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl doesnt mean I think he is better than Dan Marino. Peyton Manning won 39 of 45 games in his career, passed for over 11,000 yards, and 89 TD's.

Do we consider Peyton overrated because he played with guys like Peerless Price, Travis Henry, Jamal Lewis, Joey Kent, and Marcus Nash?

 

[Jaxbuck]

Timmy Chang attempted 602 passes his senior year.
Colt Brennan attempted 510 passes his senior year.
Graham Harrell attempted 413 his senior year and 710 in his junior year.
BJ Symons attempted 719 passes his senior year.

Last year Tebow only attempted 298 and in his sophomore year he attempted 350.

System QB's are the offense. Tebow has shared the ball with guys like Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin, Deshawn Wynn, Emmanuel Moody, etc.

Tebow attempted under 20 passes six times last year, and only attempted over 30 passes twice.

He doesnt throw the ball a shit load of times to get great stats. He is far from a system QB like what we see in guys from Texas Tech, Hawaii, and old school Houston/BYU.

The UF offense is run through Tebow, no he doesn't have to rack up video game passing attempts to get numbers but he accounts for a huge percentage of their offense like any option QB would. I'm sure you have some out to try and explain why that's not technically a system but it is.

The great Oklahoma option QB's had good players around them too but it was still a system and they were still the offense.

 

[NextBuck]

The UF offense is run through Tebow, no he doesn't have to rack up video game passing attempts to get numbers but he accounts for a huge percentage of their offense like any option QB would. I'm sure you have some out to try and explain why that's not technically a system but it is.

The great Oklahoma option QB's had good players around them too but it was still a system and they were still the offense.

You dont think Tebow would be decent in pretty much any shotgun offense? I mean, I agree the offense perfectly fits him but he is efficient and talented. The other guys in system "passing" offenses weren't nearly as talented and wouldnt have had near the success anywhere else.

Tebow has decent size, great arm strength, decent mobility, and doesnt turn the ball over much. He threw only 4 INT's last year, and has only tossed 11 in his career. In comparison, Graham Harrell tossed 30 in his career and Kliff Klingsbury tossed tossed 13 his senior year.

If anything I consider Sam Bradford more of a system QB.

Tebow doesnt have the responsibilities of a pro-style QB, and his system is perfect for him, but there is a difference between a shotgun QB and a system QB.

If every shotgun QB was considered a system QB then 80% of college QB's would be system QB's.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You dont think Tebow would be decent in pretty much any shotgun offense?

I think Tebow's passing prowess is largely due to his running threat. Take him out of a run first then pass offense and he'll suffer mightily imo. I don't think he can beat a defense passing that isn't geared up to stop his running and I don't think his running style gets him through an NFL season in one piece.

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but these guys are all just running the option out of the shotgun today. Option is a system offense no matter what formation you run it out of. Tebow might be one of the better option passers ever but like I said, I think that goes away once the grown ups don't have to honor the run as much.

Good kid and good player but the GOAT talk is all ESPN/Internet age driven imo.

 

[powerlifter]

Good kid and good player but the GOAT talk is all ESPN/Internet age driven imo.

So at the end of the year there is a possibility that Tebow will be the highest 1st place vote getter in the heisman 3 out of 4 years in college..That's not just the media. There is some possible "reality" to this. Can't give a full view of it til this year is over,but if a guy is already in talks of GOAT...There's a good chance he's going to add to it.

 

[NFBuck]

If he leads UF to his 2nd and their 3rd in 4 years, he's definately in the discussion.

 

[Jaxbuck]

So at the end of the year there is a possibility that Tebow will be the highest 1st place vote getter in the heisman 3 out of 4 years in college..That's not just the media. There is some possible "reality" to this. Can't give a full view of it til this year is over,but if a guy is already in talks of GOAT...There's a good chance he's going to add to it.

I would strongly disagree with anyone who tries to say the Heisman isn't 100% media driven.

As far as a guy being in talks of GOAT well that's pretty well media driven as well. Its pretty hard to take any GOAT discussions seriously when they just tried so hard to convince us it was Reggie Bush not that long ago. How many GOAT's can we have in one decade?

Like I said before, GOAT has started to mean the past 18-24 months. No individual or team can be even halfway good and not have some media whore start asking where they belong in the GOAT discussions.

Its nauseating.

 

[jwinslow]

So at the end of the year there is a possibility that Tebow will be the highest 1st place vote getter in the heisman 3 out of 4 years in college..That's not just the media. There is some possible "reality" to this. Can't give a full view of it til this year is over,but if a guy is already in talks of GOAT...There's a good chance he's going to add to it.

We've had 4 GOAT candidates in four years, 3 of which played in the same game 4 years ago.

 

[powerlifter]

I would strongly disagree with anyone who tries to say the Heisman isn't 100% media driven.

As far as a guy being in talks of GOAT well that's pretty well media driven as well. Its pretty hard to take any GOAT discussions seriously when they just tried so hard to convince us it was Reggie Bush not that long ago. How many GOAT's can we have in one decade?

Like I said before, GOAT has started to mean the past 18-24 months. No individual or team can be even halfway good and not have some media whore start asking where they belong in the GOAT discussions.

Its nauseating.

Difference being you can look at his record..You can look at his stats,and everything adds up. Does his outside world effect have a huge influence on things? Very probable,but maybe he can represent himself in a more intelligent way,then most..Nothing wrong with that.

You can start building a legitimate case for Tebow being the GOAT right now. At the end of the year who knows? Although "greatest of all time" might be referenced way too much now..He is an exception.

Has there ever been a player more people are salivating at the mouth hoping to see him fail? Doubtful,and he's done little to nothing to make people hate him on his own.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You can start building a legitimate case for Tebow being the GOAT right now. At the end of the year who knows? Although "greatest of all time" might be referenced way too much now..He is an exception.

Maybe so but he pays the price of the media GOAT overkill as far as I'm concerned. I just don't take any of these guys seriously. Let them stand the test of time and revisit it in a decade or more.

 

[powerlifter]

Maybe so but he pays the price of the media GOAT overkill as far as I'm concerned. I just don't take any of these guys seriously. Let them stand the test of time and revisit it in a decade or more.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dryden]

We've had 4 GOAT candidates in four years, 3 of which played in the same game 4 years ago.

Don't forget Barkley. Herbie's already pimping him for GOAT status.