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Tiger Woods (Offical Thread)

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ImFrigginFly;1974820; said:
Thanks, I was sarcastically pointing out that nearly every golfer in history gets frustrated and curses, throws a club, slams a club, whatever. For anyone to dislike him over that is a clown.
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Tiger's "greatness" can be attributed in large part to his "working the galleries". Go back and watch his behavior and you will see how he used good and bad shots to get the gallery involved in the game and to impact negatively on his opponents ability to concentrate.

It always struck me as odd that a man, who threw tantrums just because someone clicked a picture or moved slightly in his field of view, would be so disrespectful of those that he played by whipping crowds into a frenzy so that they talked, moved, and otherwise disrupted his opponents.

Make no mistake, players loved Jack Nicklaus even though they were in awe of him. Players despise Tiger Woods.

His "greatness" has become quite pedestrian since the PGA and his fellow professionals told him that they would no longer tolerate his on-course behavior. It's not his swing. It's not his coach. It's being treated like everyone else for the first time in his life.
 
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ImFrigginFly;1974819; said:
For some perspective, I am a 19 year old guy who got into golf mostly BECAUSE of Tigger as I suspect many golfers of my generation are like.
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:tongue2:

tigger-001.jpg
 
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Steve19;1974827; said:
His "greatness" has become quite pedestrian since the PGA and his fellow professionals told him that they would no longer tolerate his on-course behavior. It's not his swing. It's not his coach. It's being treated like everyone else for the first time in his life.
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Great observation Steve. And, being told by everyone how great he was (and NOT being told what an ass he was when he was acting like an ass) for so long left him significantly unprepared to handle it psychologically when he received his first rations of [Mark May] from people when the scandal blew. He could not handle the criticism, never having seen it.

For me, it was less the banging the hos that lowered my opinion of him, than it was the revelation that he skipped out on bills, stiffed wait staff on tips, and treated service industry folks genuinely like dirt. The first behavior, though stupid and hurtful to his wife, might be explained by his celebrity and the fact groupies gonna be groupies. The latter is the true expression of his character and personality. He was just a very, very big douche bag who played golf very, very well.
 
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MaxBuck;1974863; said:
That's not really consistent with what I've heard from people close to the tour. Mickelson is another matter.
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I overheard a group of professionals who were most unimpressed with him. After his ex-wife kicked his rear with a golf club, tour professionals felt it was time to confront Woods' on-course antics. The cursing. The club throwing. The disruptions of other players concentration by whipping up the crowd. Spitting. Scheduling press interviews opposite other tour events.

Make no mistake, the players resent him a lot, especially the international players, and it's not because of his golf skills.

Think back to Jack Nicklaus' comments about Tiger not even having the decency to call him personally when dropping out of The Memorial. Ever heard Jack talk badly about another player? Tom Watson's interviews are the most easily available (link). I never heard Ernie Els (link) ever say anything bad about another player until Woods. These are guys that could comment because they had nothing to lose if Tiger Woods turned on them in a PR battle back then. There was a program on TV a couple of years ago in which other players faces were shown while Woods went through his antics. It wasn't pretty stuff.

When he was good for golf and put eyeballs on screens, Woods got away with a lot. Those days are gone (link). The European Tour and PGA did not discipline Woods because of administrators, its because players have had enough of his nonsense.

Tiger's looking nothing like the world-beater he once was, now that he has been told to stop his on-course antics. Personally, I don't think he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Jack Nicklaus.
 
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Steve19;1974896; said:
I overheard a group of professionals who were most unimpressed with him. After his ex-wife kicked his rear with a golf club, tour professionals felt it was time to confront Woods' on-course antics. The cursing. The club throwing. The disruptions of other players concentration by whipping up the crowd. Spitting. Scheduling press interviews opposite other tour events.

Make no mistake, the players resent him a lot, especially the international players, and it's not because of his golf skills.

Think back to Jack Nicklaus' comments about Tiger not even having the decency to call him personally when dropping out of The Memorial. Ever heard Jack talk badly about another player? Tom Watson's interviews are the most easily available (link). I never heard Ernie Els (link) ever say anything bad about another player until Woods. These are guys that could comment because they had nothing to lose if Tiger Woods turned on them in a PR battle back then. There was a program on TV a couple of years ago in which other players faces were shown while Woods went through his antics. It wasn't pretty stuff.

When he was good for golf and put eyeballs on screens, Woods got away with a lot. Those days are gone (link). The European Tour and PGA did not discipline Woods because of administrators, its because players have had enough of his nonsense.

Tiger's looking nothing like the world-beater he once was, now that he has been told to stop his on-course antics. Personally, I don't think he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Jack Nicklaus.
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No question there are many pros who don't think highly of Tiger, but he's in no way universally disliked among tour pros; many like him a lot. But there's no question that there are a lot of PGA Tour members who now regard Tiger negatively.

You sure won't hear me defending his bad temper or on-course behavior when things aren't going well.
 
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Gatorubet;1974893; said:
Great observation Steve. And, being told by everyone how great he was (and NOT being told what an ass he was when he was acting like an ass) for so long left him significantly unprepared to handle it psychologically when he received his first rations of [Mark May] from people when the scandal blew. He could not handle the criticism, never having seen it.

For me, it was less the banging the hos that lowered my opinion of him, than it was the revelation that he skipped out on bills, stiffed wait staff on tips, and treated service industry folks genuinely like dirt. The first behavior, though stupid and hurtful to his wife, might be explained by his celebrity and the fact groupies gonna be groupies. The latter is the true expression of his character and personality. He was just a very, very big douche bag who played golf very, very well.
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How can this be, after what his father said about him?

Golf.com

"Tiger will do more than any other man in history to change the course of humanity," Earl Woods said. No kidding? Smith was understandably skeptical, so he followed up:

Would the kid do more than Buddha, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela?


"Yes, because he has a larger forum than any of them," Earl said.

​
Cont'd ...
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ImFrigginFly;1974628; said:
Fair enough. Make everyone from back then play on elongated courses with tighter fairways and longer rough. I don't know why there's such hate for Tiger. Okay, he curses on the course and slams his club. Never in my life have I seen a golfer do that...Alright, so he's playing in a different era that doesn't include Jack, Arnie, Player, Seve, etc., etc. You can't penalize a golfer for when they were born. Babe Ruth doesn't get dogged just because he played in an era where everyone's best cheese was 85 mph. He has 14 majors in however many years. That is remarkable in itself. The run he went on in the early-mid 2000's were absolutely amazing, the definition of pure domination. Any tournament he was in, you were certain he would come away the victor. This is all just a bunch of rambling.
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Penalize? No, not penalize, but you can certainly say the accomplishment isn't the same. Hey, TCU and Boise State might go undefeated too...of course they didn't play the teams that Alabama or Ohio State or Oklahoma will this year, but why penalize them? While Jack was beating Tom Watson and Arinie and Seve and the Shark, Tiger was beating Bob May and Rocco Mediate and Chris DiMarco in playoffs. Do the majors still count as majors? Yep, just like college football wins count as college football wins. But that doesn't mean it was the same thing.

As for the first comment you made, watch some tape from the 70s and 80s. Shotmaking was of much higher quality back then precisely because they didn't have the power and the courses were shorter. Guys couldn't go driver-wedge on par 5s like they can now, so they had some art to their games, which separated the good players from guys like Briny Baird back then. Watch Seve if you want to watch art, or watch Jack hit a 1-iron within 2 feet at the Masters in the final round (a club no one uses anymore, by the way). Watch interviews with Jack where he talks about taking a driver with a slightly softer shaft to St. Andrews to play the links conditions and the shifting winds. Golf was a thinking man's game back then...if anything power has made it easier to compete, not harder.
 
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Bucklion;1975160; said:
As for the first comment you made, watch some tape from the 70s and 80s. Shotmaking was of much higher quality back then precisely because they didn't have the power and the courses were shorter. Guys couldn't go driver-wedge on par 5s like they can now, so they had some art to their games, which separated the good players from guys like Briny Baird back then. Watch Seve if you want to watch art, or watch Jack hit a 1-iron within 2 feet at the Masters in the final round (a club no one uses anymore, by the way). Watch interviews with Jack where he talks about taking a driver with a slightly softer shaft to St. Andrews to play the links conditions and the shifting winds. Golf was a thinking man's game back then...if anything power has made it easier to compete, not harder.
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You are so spot on with this comment. Let's not forget these guys were doing this with forged blades as well...:yow1:
 
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