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Thee Ohio State University News

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AKAK said:
There's definitely some of that. I know of Michigan and Purdue accepteees staying home. I mean that's another price sensitivity thing. If you're unsure if you're going to get aid out of state at say Michigan, you're basically looking at 60k a year.

I can also tell you that I know a pile of really good kids that didn't get into OSU. Including kids that never got a grade other than an A. (My current conspiracy theory is "test optional" doesn't mean they aren't using AP scores in some cases)

That said, I am paying 10K a year more for my kid to go to Ohio State compared to OU, and if she wasn't in a professional degree program we'd probably have had a serious conversation about the comparative value.
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Purdue is pretty identical to us in selectivity. tsun is obviously a notch higher, so if we're keeping kids from the dark side, that's great. I think the test optional era won't be long lived. If the Yales and Penns of the world are going back to mandatory test scores, it'll eventually filter down to the Ohio States and Wisconsins of the world.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Purdue is pretty identical to us in selectivity. tsun is obviously a notch higher, so if we're keeping kids from the dark side, that's great. I think the test optional era won't be long lived. If the Yales and Penns of the world are going back to mandatory test scores, it'll eventually filter down to the Ohio States and Wisconsins of the world.
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We were basically told to expect the test to be required for this year and prepared accordingly. Then it wasn't.

And I don't know if she submitted her score or not, honestly.
 
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I firmly believe that most universities will be shuttered in the next 50 years as globally-standardized and online AI-assisted qualifications become more advanced, widely accessible, and lower cost On one hand, this means upliftment across economic strata in society, which would be instrumental in the advancement of humankind. On the other hand, that new higher education landscape could have the potential to reduce higher education to outcomes reliant on rote memorization in some fields. In others, learning could be grounded in digitalized technologies with a short shelf life. I believe that in all cases, it seems likely that our learners four or five decades from now will experience higher education and higher educational institutions differently than we do today. It is a rather sobering thought for anyone contemplating a future in that industry.
 
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See where you are going with this Steve, and would opine it's already here. The 'hallowed halls of ivy' thing may indeed become a thing of the past. In that, on-line classes are supplanting the in-house classrooms (see effects of Covid), and the uptick on at-home learning (and working). Graduated from tOSU with MBA, many decades ago. Finagled an interview with a CEO of a Silicon Valley firm, and attempted to sell him on hiring me to do/help with company's strategic planning (a big thing back then). He patiently listened, and told me that is what he does! In his spare time, am guessing. Anyway, my parallel point is that industries rise in prominence, and others fall and fade away. Question is how to determine which career path will ascend, and which will diminish. Where universities fail miserably, is not in the teaching, but in offering courses of study that probably won't lead to a job in that field. My crystal ball is cloudy anymore, but cannot see that fields of study can work around classes that require/need labs. Medicine, engineering, music, group/team practices (MBA had projects that required people to work together, formulate answers, presentations, etc) and am certain I've forgotten several others. Heck, under your scenario (which I believe will truly happen), these stodigy institutions will fight till the bitter end. Pretty certain I won't be around to see it, but my child will be, so will watch in fascination.
 
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Steve19 said:
I firmly believe that most universities will be shuttered in the next 50 years as globally-standardized and online AI-assisted qualifications become more advanced, widely accessible, and lower cost On one hand, this means upliftment across economic strata in society, which would be instrumental in the advancement of humankind. On the other hand, that new higher education landscape could have the potential to reduce higher education to outcomes reliant on rote memorization in some fields. In others, learning could be grounded in digitalized technologies with a short shelf life. I believe that in all cases, it seems likely that our learners four or five decades from now will experience higher education and higher educational institutions differently than we do today. It is a rather sobering thought for anyone contemplating a future in that industry.
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I don't think that will be universal. I think you undersell the value of going away to college, dorms, networking, in-person learning and all that. I do think that will largely be contained to about 100 schools: say the top 40 private universities, top 30 public universities and top 30 liberal arts colleges. Beyond that, yes, I think many schools will move in the direction of what you describe. A lot of middling, small private colleges will close, and a lot of middling public schools will be forced to merge (looking at you Ohio Board of Regents).
 
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The AACSB estimated 30,000+ business schools worldwide and there are more than 25,000+ universities. I’d be surprised if 20% remained in 50 years. Further surprised if India and China do not dominate top university tables.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
I don't think that will be universal. I think you undersell the value of going away to college, dorms, networking, in-person learning and all that. I do think that will largely be contained to about 100 schools: say the top 40 private universities, top 30 public universities and top 30 liberal arts colleges. Beyond that, yes, I think many schools will move in the direction of what you describe. A lot of middling, small private colleges will close, and a lot of middling public schools will be forced to merge (looking at you Ohio Board of Regents).
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I picked your post here as a response to Steve's, maybe more than yours, but its kind of an add on to your points here.

What I do think is that there's not going to be, is a lot of appetite for spending a pile of cash on classes where the professor uses large language models to generate the course content, the kids use the same AI to do the work, and the prof uses that to grade it.

My kid is taking 5 classes this fall and only one is of the Midterm/Midterm/Final with Paper structure.

3 of the others (the last one is some gen Ed requirement and it seems like its discussion and attendance based mostly) are very workshop oriented where its mostly all project completion. Some take away, some in class, not a whole lot of tests.

Which leads me to kind of think that while yes (and I've been posting quite a bit about it) there will be closures and consolidations... I also think we will see the general liberal arts degree become more and more of a luxury item (for good or bad, I don't know) but as a result, I think we're going to transition to more professional degree programs and some existing institutions will adapt to that. I mean, it seems like a pretty big hassle to become a teacher in Ohio and we seem to be short of them, it would seem to me like we could streamline that education. (Return of the Normal Schools!) And I think there's room for other professional degree programs where you need a masters now. I think there's a lot of merit to the idea that we send too many kids to college just for the sake of it, I think we also make a lot of those folks go for too long. There have to be a bunch of roles in medical fields that can streamline into a 5 year program, especially if you can get them some trigger time in the industry at the same time. We're already over certifying as it is once you become a professional.

I'll rant on about sending kids too young to college some other time!
 
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This is a huge question, and don't know that anyone has a clear crystal ball into the future. Probably some of all of the above. Doubt seriously that education will go downstream (into K-12) or community college (13-14). California education was built around first two years at a cc, then last two at a four year university, for a major. Just an FYI. Some majors, say Education, require a degree, now with a master, which includes the experience component before receiving credential (with a test or two). Business has evolved, where a master's (MBA) is pretty much ground floor. Medical school and lawyer schools are requiring advanced degrees before being able to practice in their industries. In my day, Marketing Research was a thing. Now, MR has been fragmented into more than several specialty studies, for instance Data Analytics, which was spawned with the incredible bout of data from the computer age. Find AKAK's thoughts to be humerous, prof using AI to generate curriculum, and students using AI to write their papers/research etc. Could be prophetic. Mostly see the libral arts consolidating/going away. Or anything not having a defined credential/professional path. How many people take courses, to get a degree, and become an Indiana Jones, searching for antiquities? Heck of a lot more than actually find a paying position, I'll bet. As I've said, I won't live to see it, but our children will. Will probably depend on the funding model. Not many universities can survive without some form of state/federal aid. And some of the smaller private universities might find their funding drying up, as the current generation of givers pass on. Will be interesting to watch.
 
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