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The Ohio State University Marching Band (TBDBITL)

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AKAK said:
Look, I get it. Pornograohy has consequences. Drinking does too. Drugs. I know people whose marriages were ruined by World of Warcraft. But, that's not, in any way shape of form what's caused what's gone on here. Are there new cultural twists to it? Sure. Boys and girls are gonna fuck, and they're going to talk like they want to fuck and they're gonna make dirty jokes, they're gonna flirt. the 20 year old that's been around is gonna haze the 18 year old that hasn't. There are going to be overtones to it. This is the reality of the last few millennia, not the digital porn age.
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Of course kids are going to do this shit. I don't think that is the point at all. The administration and leadership simply cannot be (explicitly or implicitly) endorsing it or willfully turning an blind eye to it.

I agree with others that Waters is taking the fall for a culture that was not of his creation, but, if the administration wants to distance themselves from the culture and the possibility of lawsuits, they have to make a stand against it and this is an emphatic and resounding way to do it.

I would bet good money that this stuff will continue to go on, but I bet the students will be more subtle about it and the future leaders of the band will be more attentive to making certain that lines are not crossed into territories that can leave the university open to liability.
 
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OSUK said:
All valid points. But I assure you, I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I read about this stuff all the time because you have to get beyond your WYSIATI to understand what you are dealing with.

Particularly germaine is the distinction you make between casual users of porn and those addicted. No, you will not necessarily ruin your life if you peeked at a boob last week. When I talk about men who have been broken by porn, I'm talking about chronic and compulsive use. I agree with your alcohol comparison. Alcohol is addictive and socially costly. Many people use it and are fine. Others end up under a bridge. Total abstinence is the only sure way to avoid the negative consequences that can come with a porn addiction or with alcoholism, but we do like our freedom.

I always find it interesting that when you bring up the worst effects of pornography, people automatically think you are advocating censorship or something. Nope. Not here. It's out there and I don't think it's even possible to get rid of it, even if you want to. My appeal would be to individual men to stop poisoning their minds so that they can be good dads and fathers. I believe I said that this is about acknowledging the dangers, making choices, and understanding the consequences of those choices. That girl in that picture or video that you are masturbating to was/is someone's little girl. She had a future that had nothing to do with helping men ejaculate semen, but somehow, that's where she ended up finding her level of self-value. If you don't want that to be your little girl's future, why would you want to create a demand for someone else's little girl to be used in that way?
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I'm sorry, but all of this comes across to me as extremely naive. People are not ruining their lives because of pornography. They either have pre-existing sexual preferences that aren't fulfilled with their partners, or they are pure sex addicts who try to use pornography as an alternative. I say people because men are not the only compulsive users of pornography.
 
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AKAK said:
Then why more psychobabble?

This is indeed cultural... its called, as was pointed out 18-23 year olds spending a lot of time together.

Especially 18-23 year olds forging a common identity and being part of a unit. Boys and girls. They're gonna haze, they're gonna prank, they're gonna fuck, and they're gonna do all those things a lot. This is reality.

(Waters may or may not have drawn the appropriate line between himself and the behaviour, and I don't have an opinion on whether he deserved to be fired. Probably did. But if he did, its apparently for his actions, the rest of it will continue in the future.)

There are almost 9 billion people on the planet, boys and girls are gonna do, what boys and girls are gonna do. Along with all the attendant juvenile BS that goes along with being 19. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
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Fungo Squiggly said:
Of course kids are going to do this [Mark May]. I don't think that is the point at all. The administration and leadership simply cannot be (explicitly or implicitly) endorsing it or willfully turning an blind eye to it.

I agree with others that Waters is taking the fall for a culture that was not of his creation, but, if the administration wants to distance themselves from the culture and the possibility of lawsuits, they have to make a stand against it and this is an emphatic and resounding way to do it.

I would bet good money that this stuff will continue to go on, but I bet the students will be more subtle about it and the future leaders of the band will be more attentive to making certain that lines are not crossed into territories that can leave the university open to liability.
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See bolded comment above.
 
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Woody1968 said:
I'm sorry, but all of this comes across to me as extremely naive. People are not ruining their lives because of pornography. They either have pre-existing sexual preferences that aren't fulfilled with their partners, or they are pure sex addicts who try to use pornography as an alternative. I say people because men are not the only compulsive users of pornography.
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And that's what's great about forums and opinions. Everyone has their own experiences and understandings.

Interesting thing is, while there are obviously those who do not see a connection between a mindset where forcing a girl to perform a faux sexual act is OK and how pornography results in degradation of girls and women, and also there are clearly those who don't really take seriously the potential consequences of porn, I haven't heard someone make the case of how porn is helpful to men, women, children, families, and society as a whole. If it's not bad, or more accurately, not that bad, then it must be good is some respects, or some good. I really want to hear that case.
 
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OSUK said:
And that's what's great about forums and opinions. Everyone has their own experiences and understandings.

Interesting thing is, while there are obviously those who do not see a connection between a mindset where forcing a girl to perform a faux sexual act is OK and how pornography results in degradation of girls and women, and also there are clearly those who don't really take seriously the potential consequences of porn, I haven't heard someone make the case of how porn is helpful to men, women, children, families, and society as a whole. If it's not bad, or more accurately, not that bad, then it must be good is some respects, or some good. I really want to hear that case.
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Great, make up a "why porn is bad" thread. This is about the band. And really, its about Waters.

'Cuz guess what, he may, and probably is in the wrong, but, one whining mommy isn't the reason.

Edit: A good place for the affermentioned thread: http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/forums/romper-room.139/
 
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Posted by a friend, who was a TBDBITL trumpet player in the mid-'90s, on his FB wall:

For my Ohio State family in CBus, Hawaii and abroad. I'll try to keep this as controlled and mild as possible.

In Hawaii, we get news a little late. VERY sad day for TB*BITL. I'm still trying to take in the awful news. I'm so ticked off and sick to my stomach. OSU lost an amazing man at the OSUMB helm and my heart goes out to him. Very proud to call "Clark" my friend. (wow - that nicknam...e is SO offensive, right?)

As for the ones (rookies) who cannot take a freaking joke and have to be pull this PC crap, my wife said it best at dinner tonight. "If you don't like it, then leave. If you don't want to leave, then suck it up!" WB honey!

Oh yeah....for those who knows what WB means, I hope I didn't offend you. If I did, well then FU! Really.
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