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The Masters Tournament 2010

BlufftonBuckeye;1688777; said:
If its such an offensive problem, why doesn't the media just, not point the boom mic's toward him? Or put it on a delay? Seriously, don't act all shocked and offended then do nothing about it. Hell, they kept replaying the clips of him swearing!

Not enough people blaming the media here because it's not the story...Tiger's outbursts are the story, headlines are headlines...oh well...

Anyone else think Mr Westwood will drop this lead like its hot? Obviously anything can happen, but you get the sense that he will struggle putting it together for 18 holes today. I think he needs to get to -15 to win it, anything less is way too close. With Tigers/Phils length, expect at least 4 eagles between the two of them,

Love this tournament!

I sure wouldn't want to be Lee in this situation...he's got arguably the MOST pressure of anyone in the top 8. I just don't see how he can follow up the round he had yesterday with one like it. He's in great shape to take it home if he plays well, and I hope he does play well...but I just don't think he's gonna put up the -2 or -3 he's gonna need to win the jacket.

I think 4 eagles between the two of them is a bit much...I'd say 2 between the two of them...probably one a piece...I don't know how the course is set today...but I'm going to assume that after the course opened up down the back 9 yesterday, the pins are going to be a bit more difficult today.
 
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THEWOOD;1688782; said:
I think Westwood gets it done. Tiger will make a charge, but I believe it will not be enough. I see Phil falling apart though.

The only way Phil has a chance is if the winning score is -12. We all know that after a round like Phil had yesterday, he usually follows it up with a REALLY sloppy one. I think the final outcome will ultimately depend on whether or not Tiger gets off to a great start.

If he's -3 on the front 9, and 1 or 2 off the lead...it's another Tiger triumph...

...but if Tiger struggles like he did Saturday, I don't think Lee will drop off far enough, and Phil will give him the chance to pass him. Maybe K.J plays the round of his life today and knocks everyone on their butts...I'd love to see that...
 
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Steve19;1688735; said:
We began with a question as to why the media only recognize Tiger's behavior on Saturday? I suppose one could consider this as evidence of a conspiracy against Tiger at one extreme. Another way to consider it is that the media gave Tiger some space to get himself under control after such a long layoff. I think the latter is more true, as shown by this example:

Clearly, in February Tiger connected the dots between his ebullient and aggressive behavior on the course and disrespect for the game. Some would argue that cursing doesn't show disrespect in a society that, after all, now includes these words regularly in television programming and daily life.

I have an alternative viewpoint, that I share as one who struggles to contain my own use of such words. I could blame my own use of foul words on (a) being an old Army sergeant, (b) growing up in the hippie era, (c) desiring to be authentic in communicating or whatever. The truth is that I don't use such word in professional contexts because it shows a lack of control and a lack of respect for others and I try very hard to not ever use them.

Sure, some things are hard to break. When I hit my thumb with a hammer, I have great difficulty not channeling my father, who only cursed in such times. But, I am making progress.

Slamming clubs into the ground and cursing is more than just a sign of emotional immaturity. If you examine the psychology literature on the use of foul language and public displays of anger, it is intended more to affect others than oneself.

Having hit a bad shot, I don't doubt that Tiger is angry with himself. But I also recognize that his display is intended to reduce the disadvantage of his bad shot by disrupting the concentration of his playing partners. Given all of his recent psychological counseling, I am quite sure that he realizes this consciously now, if he did not previously.

Take Tiger's uses of the Lord's name in vain. If you're not religious, it's no big deal. Who cares? Well, the many members of Abrahamic religions who believe God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses. They would recognize taking the Lord's name in vain as a most grievous sin with eternal implications for the person who does it.

So what, that's their problem, isn't it? Well, something that they consider to be so offensive would impact on their concentration because it is a deep affront to their sense of religious identity. Even if Tiger does not know the psychological theory behind this, he recognizes that his behavior has an effect on his opponents, which he can observe in small details such as their breathing and pupil size. Anyone who has grown up in Asia can tell you that people can and do monitor such small physiological changes in others to assess their interest and reaction in social interactions.

Take the displays of aggression (e.g., slamming clubs into the ground, into his bag, or throwing them). Again, he may well be angry with himself but he realizes that his behavior affects the composure of his opponents. Responses to aggressive behavior by others, by the way, are pre-cognitive. That is, they are automatic responses in the limbic system that elevate arousal and direct blood, hormones, and other resources to fight or flight. More importantly, they disrupt concentration by directing attention at potentially threatening stimuli.

Tiger also knows that his behavior also has an effect on the crowd, who begin to talk about it--while his opponents are planning and playing their shots. Again, this disrupts their attention. This is especially true when he does one of his fist pumping displays on sinking a putt.

This is why this type of behavior is forbidden in golf. Recognizing that golf is a game of concentration, the R&A discusses this saying, "The overriding principle is that consideration should be shown to others on the course at all times." From the USGA rules on golf etiquette:

I'd love to see a statistical comparison: Performance of Tiger's playing partners on the hole and subsequent hole when Tiger makes one of these displays versus their performance on other holes in the round. The statistic would be performance to the average score on the hole for the day by all players. I choose this comparison because wind conditions and other factors affect the difficulty of holes and Tiger may be more likely to behave like this on more difficult holes, so the analysis would control for that.

And, by the way, Tiger tries to bury it behind acknowledging fans, but he agrees completely with what I say, as evidenced by his pre-Masters presser:

Dude, if you think him dropping a God @#$% is trying to distract his playing partner, I'm not sure what to tell you. I don't think he's trying to get in his playing partners mind on Thursday. And I definately don't think he's trying to get in his playing partners mind on Friday of a tournament where said playing partner isn't even going to make the cut (I've seen him drop all sorts of curse words regardless of the tournament and time). His cursing is a natural reaction for him. I do the same on the course...hit a bad shot and drop "Bill, you suck...what the #@!@ are you doing?" Only difference is I'm not essentially mic'd up for millions of viewers. And most of the time, I doubt Tiger's playing partner even hears the curse...they're normally already walking down the fairway, or across the fairway at their own ball. Most of Tiger's curses are from the fairway once he hits a bad shot and he's not screaming them...he's just getting picked up by the mic's that are 2 feet from him. If K.J. Choi heard the "Tiger, you suck...God ^%&*()" he has rabbit ears.

And yes playing in front of and behind Tiger is a pain in the ass. Thats what happens when you're in front of or behind one of the most recognizeable athletes in the world though. People are constantly putting themselves in position to see him, so you get crowd movement and noise...I don't see how that is Tiger's fault though. No more than the crowd going nuts after a great shot or putt...I think it's off base to say Tiger is intentionally trying to rile up the crowd with a fist-pump. The crowd is going crazy no matter what Tiger's reaction is...Phil was fairly calm after making 2 eagles in a row, and whoever the commentator was (think David Feherety) said it was as loud as he's ever heard Augusta. Does that make Phil a bad guying trying to get in his opponents heads? For holing out an iron shot and then almost making a third eagle in a row??

There should be some emotion in golf. I imagine Tiger would prefer not dropping "God @#$%" all the time, but it's not a switch he can turn on and off. He has to teach himself something new to replace those words after a bad shot...hell, he's been doing it since I saw him play as a senior in high school, and likely WAY before that. Years of cursing at himself and the ball...no different than most golfers. I agree it makes him look bad, but it's stupid for people to care. Take the mics off the players if they're concerned about it. Tiger is far from the only player dropping f-bombs and GD's. He's just caught the most b/c he has a camera and mic on him for every step of the course.

Not talking to your playing partner is a psychological tactic. Asking your playing partner what they made on a par 3 after a hole in one (Ben Hogan did this in the final round of a tournament) is a psychological tactic. Dropping "god #$%^" after a terrible shot is not. It's disappointment in yourself for not executing a shot.
 
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TheRob8801;1688783; said:
The only way Phil has a chance is if the winning score is -12. We all know that after a round like Phil had yesterday, he usually follows it up with a REALLY sloppy one. I think the final outcome will ultimately depend on whether or not Tiger gets off to a great start.
No. We don't all know that. You sound like an SEC fan claiming the Buckeyes will get rolled by Oregon because we got blown out by Florida 4 years earlier. Phil has been playing good golf lately. I think we'll continue to see that carry over and I bet he wins the damn thing.
I'm pulling for Phil and Tiger to make this thing very exciting. I don't see Freddie Couples getting back in there but that would be sick!
 
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Tiger's problem on tour is with his personality. He has recently been scolded for his mannerisms. Golf was always thought of as a "gentleman's " game, not a street Playa's game. Those golf purists who are trying to uphold the traditions and perception of the game are not happy with him in re.
I for one think all pros should conduct themselves as gentlemen. They should not throw clubs, or tantrums, or go after fanes in the stans ala Artest or Sir Charles, or spit on refs and others, or have fans go after players.
Or even worse Boo in the 'Shoe.
IMO there is too much of people just doing want they want without regard for others in sports.

In keeping, I am against Tiger and his tantrums. It's time to grow up and add all he can to the game not tear parts of it down.
It's not Tiger's game but rather everyone's game so he would do better to leave it alone and join the club.
Besides, golf isn't a real sport.:biggrin:
 
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southcampus;1688789; said:
No. We don't all know that. You sound like an SEC fan claiming the Buckeyes will get rolled by Oregon because we got blown out by Florida 4 years earlier. Phil has been playing good golf lately. I think we'll continue to see that carry over and I bet he wins the damn thing.
I'm pulling for Phil and Tiger to make this thing very exciting. I don't see Freddie Couples getting back in there but that would be sick!

Yea, you're right...

Phil hasn't been nearly as prone to his meltdowns this year as he has in years past. Lemme just say that we all know he has been prone to that sort of failure in the past...and I wouldn't be surprised if after a round like yesterday, he goes the opposite direction.

That being said, I'm all for lefty winning this one. I've been extremely impressed with his game since the '04 Masters and how he's used that confidence and grown as a golfer...I've just got a "gut" feeling about today, here's hoping I'm wrong though...
 
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Best Buckeye;1688791; said:
Tiger's problem on tour is with his personality. He has recently been scolded for his mannerisms. Golf was always thought of as a "gentleman's " game, not a street Playa's game. Those golf purists who are trying to uphold the traditions and perception of the game are not happy with him in re.
I for one think all pros should conduct themselves as gentlemen. They should not throw clubs, or tantrums, or go after fanes in the stans ala Artest or Sir Charles, or spit on refs and others, or have fans go after players.
Or even worse Boo in the 'Shoe.
IMO there is too much of people just doing want they want without regard for others in sports.

In keeping, I am against Tiger and his tantrums. It's time to grow up and add all he can to the game not tear parts of it down.
It's not Tiger's game but rather everyone's game so he would do better to leave it alone and join the club.
Besides, golf isn't a real sport.:biggrin:

Is it a "street playa's game" when Freddie Couples hits a lady in the head with his tee ball and the bounce off her head causes the ball to go into a hazard and he drops a "you've got to be $%^&*()_ kidding me". Because I recall that happening a while back and laughing uncontrollably for several minutes.

Or any other player dropping damn...it happens ALL THE TIME. If its that big of a problem they should stop putting mics 2 feet from the players and catching what they're saying to themselves after a terrible shot. There's a reason they don't mic up football coaches and basketball coaches. And when they are mic'd up its for a show on HBO or they play it coming back from a timeout after they've had a chance to censor it. Maybe golf should go to a delay...They know it's coming. Do something about it...but don't act suprised when you hear it or feature it on ESPN like it's a story.
 
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billmac91;1688793; said:
Is it a "street playa's game" when Freddie Couples hits a lady in the head with his tee ball and the bounce off her head causes the ball to go into a hazard and he drops a "you've got to be $%^&*()_ kidding me". Because I recall that happening a while back and laughing uncontrollably for several minutes.

Or any other player dropping damn...it happens ALL THE TIME. If its that big of a problem they should stop putting mics 2 feet from the players and catching what they're saying to themselves after a terrible shot. There's a reason they don't mic up football coaches and basketball coaches. And when they are mic'd up its for a show on HBO or they play it coming back from a timeout after they've had a chance to censor it. Maybe golf should go to a delay...They know it's coming. Do something about it...but don't act suprised when you hear it or feature it on ESPN like it's a story.
So it's "ok" for Tiger to do it because others do?
Great logic..........

No, I'm not surprised it happens, it's todays mentality, which IMO isn't much good.
 
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Best Buckeye;1688796; said:
So it's "ok" for Tiger to do it because others do?
Great logic..........

I don't think that's what he was saying...

It's more about the fact that if the media is going to make a big deal out of it...either make a big deal about it when others do it...or simply stop creating the opportunities that allow it to happen...

The fact of the matter is that ESPN and CBS and the other stations that carry golf tend to "hunt" for situations like that when it comes to Tiger, or John Daly, or anyone else that's been stricken with the bad boy persona and then run with it...

Networks care more about ratings than they do the perception of the game.
 
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Best Buckeye;1688796; said:
So it's "ok" for Tiger to do it because others do?
Great logic..........

No, I'm not surprised it happens, it's todays mentality, which IMO isn't much good.

I've never heard anything but nice things about Freddy. I just wouldn't classify him as a "street playa" b/c I heard him cuss on TV. It happens. These are grown men playing a game known for cussing. You don't think Arnie, Jack, or Gary Player were cursing?? My guess is if they had the technology then for boom mics we'd have heard a few things from them as well...
 
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The 1,3,and 4 players in the world at the top of the board....I would say the cream has risen to the top at this Masters...And here I thought AK or Camillo might have made some more noise.

Phil in all black...Tiger in his traditional red and black...Would have been interesting to see Tiger shake it up a little....
 
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billmac91;1688807; said:
I've never heard anything but nice things about Freddy. I just wouldn't classify him as a "street playa" b/c I heard him cuss on TV. It happens. These are grown men playing a game known for cussing. You don't think Arnie, Jack, or Gary Player were cursing?? My guess is if they had the technology then for boom mics we'd have heard a few things from them as well...

With a few exceptions, I think your right. Faldo just said in an interview that people should be patient with Tiger and the cussing thing, because there is a mic and camera on him 100% of the time. Not as much an excuses as a reality.

buckeyebri;1688811; said:
The 1,3,and 4 players in the world at the top of the board....I would say the cream has risen to the top at this Masters...And here I thought AK or Camillo might have made some more noise.

Phil in all black...Tiger in his traditional red and black...Would have been interesting to see Tiger shake it up a little....

Really thought AK would make a run, especially after his solid 2nd round. Surprised me how much he struggled yesterday.

Somehow I doubt we will ever see Tiger in anything but red on a championship Sunday...

I would LOVE to see Freddie put it together today, make it interesting. Here we go...
 
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It will interest me to see what Kim does. I thought he would be in better position today, given his form the last month and his kamikaze attitude toward risky play. When I saw the six birdies and an eagle in his first round, I thought this guy might just put it together. If he is aggressive and very lucky, he might make a charge, but I think that seven strokes back on these guys is way too much and I don't think he has it in him to shoot the lights out on this course.
 
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