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Southern Cal football

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Lsu Nat'l Champs!

Bucklion said:
Yes BSH, but the "title" game is only for one champion, that of the BCS and the coaches' poll. AND THE AP POLL. It is one of 3 formulas used to determine who plays in the BCS Title game and is crowned the champ.

The AP poll, which has always awarded a NT that counted just as much as that poll, is the other. If we (or anyone) wins the AP title, I expect they'll count it as a shared NT and won't bow in deference to a concocted formula set up to generate money, not determine a champion. Penn State got screwed out of a shot at a title in 94 NO BCS THIS YEAR
, and everyone screamed. Nebraska got a share handed to them on a platter in 97 AGAIN, NO BCS THIS YEAR.
by the coaches that they didn't deserve (AFTER screwing Penn State out of 1994) and everyone screamed louder. Nebraska AGAIN played for the title in 2001 without even winning their DIVISION, let alone conference, and everyone screamed "never again" INDEED THEY DID. AND I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO WIN YOUR CONFERENCE. SEEMS SIMPLE NO?.
Then USC finished atop BOTH polls at the end of last season, and did not qualify for the "title" game somehow.THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE BCS IS FOR ISN'T IT? THINK ABOUT IT - IF WE JUST WANT #1 TO PLAY #2 WHY HAVE A BCS. IT DID ITS JOB. IT PICKED THE TWO BEST TEAMS BASED ON ALL OF THE DATA AVAILABLE. So they'll change it again. UNFORTUNATELY

My point is that no matter how many times they change it, these things will keep happening, so if USC won half the title, they won half the title. THEY WON THE AP #1 BUT THEY DID NOT WIN THE BCS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. I WOULD GLADLY GIVE ANY TEAM THAT IF I CAN HAVE THE BCS TITLE EVERY YEAR WOULDN'T YOU? I don't if ABC tells me otherwise...if you don't believe in the system (which really no one does)I GUESS HAVE SPLIT NATIONAL CHAMPS LIKE IN PREVIOUS YEARS WAS BETTER? AT LEAST NOW THEY CAN PIT # 1 VERSUS # 2. I THINK IT WORKED WELL FOR OHIO STATE NO? WE WOULND'T BE NATIONAL CHAMPS IF NOT FOR THE BCS. then it can't be a valid detrminant of the national champion, especially if the older poll (AP) says otherwise.
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THANK YOU!
 
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BuckStocksHere said:
I THINK IT WORKED WELL FOR OHIO STATE NO? WE WOULND'T BE NATIONAL CHAMPS IF NOT FOR THE BCS
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I think I found someone's motivation for insisting on the BCS as infallible and absolute. Forgive me, I made the mistake of assuming you were arguing from logic. I won't dare try to challenge your latitude of rejection.
 
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This argument is pointless. The National Title this past season (like ALL other seasons before it) is MYTHICAL. The NCAA doesn't have a Championship for D1-A football. Some folks will like one rating system better than another. This (IMO) is one of the great things about college football. The passion is fueled by all the uncertainty of the system. What would have happened if so and so played this team. What could have been, what should have been.

FWIW, NCAA Football (The NCAA Official Site for College Football) lists BOTH the BCS and AP champions. Which is better? Which is the MOST recognized? That's for each fan to decide ... and argue.


http://www.ncaafootball.net/0,5717,1_142_0_27661,00.html
 
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If you were to take a poll I firmly believe that most fans would pick USC over LSU as the champ last year and without them playing on the field public perception is all there is. As good as USC was last year they were better at the end of 2002 and will probably be better in a year or two than they were last year as well.
 
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3yards: "The NCAA Official Site for College Football) lists BOTH the BCS and AP champions. Which is better? Which is the MOST recognized? That's for each fan to decide ... and argue."

Agreed. There are two polls that award the "Mythical" National Championship, as you say, in College Football: the AP and the Coaches Polls. If you finish # 1 in both, then you are the CONSENSUS National Champion. If you finish # 1 in one of the polls and not the other, you are CO-National Champions. It's that simple, and its been that way forever.

To simplify, the BCS Title game guarantees the winner that they will be awarded the # 1 ranking in the Coaches Poll. It guarantees nothing in the AP poll.

IMO, both polls are of equal value, but if someone thinks otherwise, that's their opinion, and their perrogative. But, to favor one and then act as if the other doesn't exist is living outside of reality.

This is like having an argument with TomInDayton. I'm calling Tress right now and telling him to burn the AP Trophy because it means nothing. I wonder how "meaningless" the AP National Championship would be if OSU was in USC's shoes.
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
If you were to take a poll I firmly believe that most fans would pick USC over LSU as the champ last year and without them playing on the field public perception is all there is. As good as USC was last year they were better at the end of 2002 and will probably be better in a year or two than they were last year as well.
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Yeah they might even be good enough to actually go undefeated one of these years.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
3yards: "The NCAA Official Site for College Football) lists BOTH the BCS and AP champions. Which is better? Which is the MOST recognized? That's for each fan to decide ... and argue."

Agreed. There are two polls that award the "Mythical" National Championship, as you say, in College Football: the AP and the Coaches Polls. If you finish # 1 in both, then you are the CONSENSUS National Champion. If you finish # 1 in one of the polls and not the other, you are CO-National Champions. It's that simple, and its been that way forever.

To simplify, the BCS Title game guarantees the winner that they will be awarded the # 1 ranking in the Coaches Poll. It guarantees nothing in the AP poll.

IMO, both polls are of equal value, but if someone thinks otherwise, that's their opinion, and their perrogative. But, to favor one and then act as if the other doesn't exist is living outside of reality. The only reality missing is yours. I don't think anyone on here said it doesn't exist. IN fact, if you will look at what I said previously, you will note time and time and time again, that it is part of the BCS process. one part out of three. The BCS takes into account the AP so how could it "not exist"? your logic is the only thing not in reality. Since the BCS incorporates ALL of those polls + the computer, it is the national championship. It is the best system we have currently. Would you rather have just one piece of a greater picture, OR the whole damn picture? You can have your AP title... I'll take a BCS any day. And since you would rather be in the Orange Bowl like every other Division 1-A team.... you know what is more important. Now if you will admit it.... well ... nevermind..... you just can't seem to admit when you are wrong.

This is like having an argument with TomInDayton. I'm calling Tress right now and telling him to burn the AP Trophy because it means nothing. I wonder how "meaningless" the AP National Championship would be if OSU was in USC's shoes.
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you're welcome

MililaniBuckeye said:
Sloops, don't try to use reasoning and facts when debating with BrainStoppedHere.
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I haven't seen one reasonable logical statement from you yet. You have over two thousand posts..... but hey.... if you keep trying hard enough...soon you will.

I guess you didn't learn your lesson from previously. Why don't you go find Tibor and let him bitch slap you around a little.... I'm already tired of your drivel...
 
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Both LSU and USC were able to play Bowl games close to home, and not face each other. They both won a mythical NC, and they both bitch about being the real NC.

They were both fortunate in 2003. I don't enter the argument with either one of them, and recommend that we let them fight with each other about something they should both be happy with.
 
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Anytime you have a split NC because you couldn't run the table its a diminished accomplishment. A concensus NC after an undefeated season is what every team is shooting for and what people think of when they say "National Champs". I know I don't give any credence to our 1970 NC.

I would even give more weight to scUM and NU in '97 when they split the title because they were undefeated. Usually at the end of the year, no matter if you like the team or not it feels like someone actually won a NC. It's a big deal.

LSU/USC were like two fat chicks at the end of the bar when they turn on the lights. "Its gonna be someone so it might as well be you" type of thing. Barely even satisfying but puts an official end to the evening so you can go in search of a real winner again the next night.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
...A concensus NC after an undefeated season is what every team is shooting for and what people think of when they say "National Champs". I know I don't give any credence to our 1970 NC...
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The National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame (which awarded us the NC in 1970) awarded their national titles after the regular season but prior to the bowl games, much like the AP did from 1936-1964 and 1966-1967, and the coaches poll from 1950-1973. Seeing as two of our AP titles (1942 and 1954) and one of our coaches titles (1957) were given to us in the exact same manner (i.e., before the bowl games), would you also consider them to be without merit had we lost our subsequent bowl games in those years?
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
The National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame (which awarded us the NC in 1970) awarded their national titles after the regular season but prior to the bowl games, much like the AP did from 1936-1964 and 1966-1967, and the coaches poll from 1950-1973. Seeing as two of our AP titles (1942 and 1954) and one of our coaches titles (1957) were given to us in the exact same manner (i.e., before the bowl games), would you also consider them to be without merit had we lost our subsequent bowl games in those years?
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IF we had lost those Bowl games then absolutely. How can anyone claim to be the best if they lose their last game of the year or any game for that matter? As I said I could see a split title between undefeateds but multiple one loss teams is just kind of weak to me as a fan.

I almost wish the polls had the balls to say "there is no #1 team this year you all sucked now go home and try again next year". :wink2:
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Both our 1942 and 1957 NC teams were 9-1.
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I am aware of that. I don't know what the landscape of CFB was back then, but if it happened today I would have serious heartburn with it.

Now if you are the only 1 loss team and everyone else has 2 or more then obviously its not as dominating as an undefeated season but would be pretty hard to argue against.
 
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