Game Thread Southern Cal 18, at tOSU 15 (Sept 12th, 8 pm, ESPN)

[USCStephen]

I will agree with an SC blogger, "Pryor runs for 700 and throws for 400."

Seriously though...an improved D-line (according to reports, of course), and a hopefully drastically improved O-line for tOSU will make or break this game for us. Although you guys lost a lot on defense and some on offense, you guys reload like tOSU does, so this will come down to tOSU playing to their potential. I can see tOSU winning by more than a TD if they do that, or I can just as easily see SC leaving with another W because they show up for the big games.

In my opinion if both teams play to their potential USC will win. Of course I'm a usc fan and i'm slightly biased. If I were to try to break in down position by position USC probably wins IMO, 5-2-2 in USC's favor.

 

[zincfinger]

3 points in the first half for the offense. You can whittle any game down to several key plays but the bottom line is they didn't execute and it isn't like that's an anomaly over the past 8 years.

From a strict, bottom-line standpoint, I think your assessment is indisputable, given that the the bottom-line is, ultimately, the scoreboard. My point is, from the standpoint of assessing overall execution and play-calling creativity, I think there is a difference between an endless succession of bland 3-and-outs, vs. a half that contained two field-length drives, which were based on a highly unusual offensive strategy, but which ended in relative futility. Along those lines, I would suggest that in last year's game, while OSU continued a frustrating trend of being subpar in the red-zone against top-level opponents (with a significant contribution from back-to-back, borderline holding calls which successively erased a touchdown and a short first-and-goal), they showed a high degree of creativity and a reasonable degree of effective execution between the 20's. And the creativity was still there in the redzone (maybe too much creativity, actually), but the execution was not, in part because creativity becomes less important in the redzone and physically beating your opponent at the point of attack becomes more important. At any rate, it's not my intention to claim an ultimately meaningless moral victory for the offense, but instead I'm suggesting that the shortcomings on offense were significantly more limited in scope than what a cursory assessment of the point total might suggest, at least in the first half. The second half was, from my perspective, much more similar to the broad-based failure that you describe.

As an aside, I disagree that the difference in every game can be meaningfully whittled down to several key plays. Sometimes, it's just continuous, remorseless domination on a play-by-play basis. The '04 OSU/Iowa game would be an example of that type of game, in my mind (as would many games in which OSU was the dominator). The first half of the OSU/USC game, while the scoreboard was lopsided, was different from that scenario, in my view.

 

[Buck94]

We lose a ton at linebacker.
General consensus however is that USC linebackers are faster this year, not as big, their speed will better enable defending a Pryor who has yet to show a viable passing threat. Not that he won't.

I have heard this point of view several times from USC supporters, but with all due respect, having speed and playing fast are not the same thing. Vince Young gave a young USC defense a lot to think about and it was key to his ability to dictate the flow of the game, especially in the 4th quarter. Young was able to scramble at will in the 4th quarter, but this was set up by his ability to hit the TE. This played havoc on the strong side of the defense and had Rivers and Cushing second guessing.

It will be interesting to see what Pryor will be able to do, but he is capable of dictating the flow of the game if he is playing up to his abilities.

 

[Steve19]

I think that the team seriously lacked unity of purpose when they went to LA last year. Some of the guys felt that Todd was getting serious disrespect in favor of Pryor. Pryor had not yet earned the respect of the team. There were stories of "the young pups calling out the upperclassmen."

We have all discussed Todd's performance in the game, the failure of the line to protect him, and the like.

This year, I expect a team that is truly united and has a chip on its shoulder. The difference in the team versus USC and Texas is instructive. I expect the team to play the entire game and to win.

 

[USCStephen]

I have heard this point of view several times from USC supporters, but with all due respect, having speed and playing fast are not the same thing. Vince Young gave a young USC defense a lot to think about and it was key to his ability to dictate the flow of the game, especially in the 4th quarter. Young was able to scramble at will in the 4th quarter, but this was set up by his ability to hit the TE. This played havoc on the strong side of the defense and had Rivers and Cushing second guessing.

It will be interesting to see what Pryor will be able to do, but he is capable of dictating the flow of the game if he is playing up to his abilities.

The difference between the 2005 defense and this one is night and day. Comparing them is irrelevant to how Pryor and this years defense will play against each other.

 

[Buck94]

The difference between the 2005 defense and this one is night and day. Comparing them is irrelevant to how Pryor and this years defense will play against each other.

How so? When it comes to the linebackers, the topic of discussion, the 2005 defense is quite similar, athleticism without the experience. So please shed some light on how this is irrelevant.

 

[jwinslow]

USC Stephen, glad to have someone to talk football. That's what has made the Ok State, Texas, & LSU discussions a lot of fun, and the USC game a snoozer. We have a quality USC fan here as a mod (methomps), and a few other visitors (troy#1), but it's been pretty sparse.

I agree that the game will be decided like most games upfront. I am very confident that we know what USC OL versus OSU's DL are capable of. Obviously both units were new last season and USC came out tops last time. The question remains which unit improved more over the last year. We wont really know until the game.

OSU's DL improved a good bit as the season progressed... Gibson in particular. True frosh Nate Williams also shined in spot duty, despite enrolling just months earlier. I still think USC's OL will be a tough test, but it could be a different battle this time around, particularly if O'Dowd is out.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQgiR8-A1nA"]YouTube - ASAP at Ohio State Football Strength Training[/ame]

Cameron Heyward will fit a 3-4 DE position at the next level. Doug Worthington played better as the season progressed, as he was a bit of a tweener for much of 06 & 07. Don't be surprised to see OSU use Gibson & Williams outside with Heyward & Worthington inside.

The difference between the 2005 defense and this one is night and day. Comparing them is irrelevant to how Pryor and this years defense will play against each other.

They are different, but the youth at LB will be similar.

That defense had a full season under it's belt. This LB unit will be starting its second game, and that can be a lot to handle. Will the mental side of the game slow down their athleticism at all, thinking too much? The same can be asked for many of our replacements.

 

[USCStephen]

How so? When it comes to the linebackers, the topic of discussion, the 2005 defense is quite similar, athleticism without the experience. So please shed some light on how this is irrelevant.

In dealing with the 05 defense, if you look at the whole defense, it was easily the least experienced defense ever at USC. If looking just at linebacker you had freshman starting and or getting large minutes against Texas. true freshman.
The 09 linebacking core have all been in the program for at least two years, all are physically matured and all have gotten various levels of experience last year.
Thats the difference.

 

[jwinslow]

The defense as a whole is certainly different, and each person is their own player. That said, there are some similar questions given the level of experience...

The 09 linebacking core have all been in the program for at least two years, all are physically matured and all have gotten various levels of experience last year.

The 05 linebackers had 12 games of experience. By the Texas game, Rey Rey & Brian were hardly freshman... and Lua/Rivers were obviously not freshmen.

Which of the new LBs have that kind of experience?

 

[Taosman]

In dealing with the 05 defense, if you look at the whole defense, it was easily the least experienced defense ever at USC. If looking just at linebacker you had freshman starting and or getting large minutes against Texas. true freshman.
The 09 linebacking core have all been in the program for at least two years, all are physically matured and all have gotten various levels of experience last year.
Thats the difference.

There has been a massive turnover and this years team is very different than last years team. Last years team was Beanie centric.
This years team is Pryor(QB) centric. See the difference?

 

[USCStephen]

USC Stephen, glad to have someone to talk football. That's what has made the Ok State, Texas, & LSU discussions a lot of fun, and the USC game a snoozer. We have a quality USC fan here as a mod (methomps), and a few other visitors (troy#1), but it's been pretty sparse.

Great, i'm happy enough to try and participate.

OSU's DL improved a good bit as the season progressed... Gibson in particular. True frosh Nate Williams also shined in spot duty, despite enrolling just months earlier. I still think USC's OL will be a tough test, but it could be a different battle this time around, particularly if O'Dowd is out.

I'm not discounting O'Dowd as a loss he is a loss but this year of all years we are capable of replacing him if just for one game. Alex Parsons is a more than able lineman who started 10 games for us. We will see closer to the date but right now I'm not overly concerned.

OL Coach Pat Ruel on Parsons:

"Both of them have very good quickness. Both of them understand the calls and stuff. The difference is that K.O.'s had a lot of experience. He's earned an all-Pac-10 honor. Parsons played a lot of right guard last year, and he's a starter in my mind," Ruel said. "He's been rotating in at the right guard spot. What I'm hoping for is for the five best players up there, and I've trained Alex to be a center and Jeff to be a center. I'm not concerned about our spots at all."

Cameron Heyward will fit a 3-4 DE position at the next level. Doug Worthington played better as the season progressed, as he was a bit of a tweener for much of 06 & 07. Don't be surprised to see OSU use Gibson & Williams outside with Heyward & Worthington inside.

Thats certainly interesting, what was the line up last year, I thought it was very similar to this?

 

[methomps]

How so? When it comes to the linebackers, the topic of discussion, the 2005 defense is quite similar, athleticism without the experience. So please shed some light on how this is irrelevant.

There is a difference between players who lack of starting experience and true freshmen, between expected new starters and backups. Cushing and Maualuga were freshmen (Cushing had actually missed most of the year with an arm injury). All three starters ahead of them were either out or ailing.

Michael Morgan is a redshirt junior (24 game appearances, 1 start, 31 tackles), Chris Gallippo a redshirt sophomore (13 game appearances, 20 tackles), and Malcolm Smith a true junior (26 game appearanes, 24 tackles). They've each had 2-3 years in the program, learning the system and going through college-level strength and conditioning.

 

[USCStephen]

The defense as a whole is certainly different, and each person is their own player. That said, there are some similar questions given the level of experience...The 05 linebackers had 12 games of experience. By the Texas game, Rey Rey & Brian were hardly freshman... and Lua/Rivers were obviously not freshmen.

Which of the new LBs have that kind of experience?

They were still freshman playing on usc's worst defense. With a mediocre DL and a horrible secondary. They were't ready, this years group is more than ready to step up.

 

[Merih]

Last year it went:

DE Gibson
DT Abdallah
DT Rose/Larimore/Heyward
DE Heyward/Rose/Williams

Or something like that; correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jwinslow]

It varied a bit... they lost Wilson a month into the season. Gibson is a converted LB, so they would move him around.

DE Wilson DT Worthington DT Larimore DE Heyward

They would slide Heyward inside at times, line Gibson outside of him. They also use Hines/Moeller as a S/LB hybrid, playing close to the LOS and used to break up horizontal plays and rush the QB. Both are better disruptors than cover guys, and obviously Moeller is gone for the year thanks to a punk from FL.

DE Nathan Williams was played in spurts, due to his limitations as a frosh (size, defensive assignments, etc). He wasn't small, but more of a speed DE size. (240-245ish?)


We saw more tinkering as the year went on... particularly as Gibson became more of a force. He had big games against PSU, UM & Texas, and Williams the latter two.