So... what's up with the new advertising?

[Gatorubet]

Just had the same abcjmp.com redirect from the front page trying to redirect me to a credit site...

Was it Mortgageyourassforspringdrive.com?

 

[Deety]

Alright, we've established that something is still rarely but annoyingly getting through the blocks at that network. I'm switching it out and putting another one in for now.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

What ... the ... fuck. Just got another redirect, this time to shopica.com, out of the blue while in the TSUN bickering page. Was on the page for about 20-30 seconds and then got redirected. I think www.searchtigo.com may have did it (that's also in my browser history for today).

This shit is getting old...

 

[Deety]

Recommendations and help would be welcomed, Mili. Here's the situation so you can help evaluate:

In this recent test, we've switched four ad sources since Cleve's report on the 15th and so far the results are that two networks have had 0 reports of bad ads. From over 20k impressions daily, one network had reports of bad ads from Clarity and BB73. This one has one report of a bad ad from Mili.

Is this a big enough sample size to prove those are problem networks? What about the chance that something else on the computers is causing the issue, as was the issue for BuckeyeMike80? The reports don't match each other.

I don't doubt the problem is coming from the ad networks in some cases at least, especially since those of you reporting now know how to keep a computer locked down, but the amount of data doesn't really pin anything down, and there may not be much we could do about them in any case, as everything that can be blocked in terms of unwanted ad types has been.

So do we just go ahead and dump the two networks that have paid the most or what? It's not as though these are fly-by-night operations - they're at the top of the industry, used by countless sites bigger than we are.

Seriously, advice would be welcomed. The site needs to stay up, and Clarity's bills have to be covered. As long as those two things happen, we're open for ideas and help.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Sorry for the vent, and I fully understand that C-Dog needs to income, but I've had no redirects on any other site...zero. My only advice would be to inform the ad source of the problem so they can find out who supplies them with ads related to abcjmp.com and shopica.com.

If this were occuring when I was on any other site, especially ad/pop-up intensive sites like CNNSI.com, then I could see that it's not BP-related. If the ad sources are unaware of ads with redirects buried in them, then they should be made aware...

 

[Deety]

Sorry for the vent, and I fully understand that C-Dog needs to income, but I've had no redirects on any other site...zero. My only advice would be to inform the ad source of the problem so they can find out who supplies them with ads related to abcjmp.com and shopica.com.

If this were occuring when I was on any other site, especially ad/pop-up intensive sites like CNNSI.com, then I could see that it's not BP-related. If the ad sources are unaware of ads with redirects buried in them, then they should be made aware...

It's cool, it irks me at least that much, too.

I've been trying to wrap my scrawny brain around some way to make it clear which network is sending the ad - I guess we could swap networks by day or something - we could automate one for MWF, say - but that's what we've done the past couple of days, and it's still not giving us enough data.

We actually can block specific advertisers by name in the largest network, but I have yet to find any of these domain names on the list, because of course those agencies get ads from their various clients.

If we had some way to generate a report showing what network was called and what the click URL was for the ad, that would probably be the most useful thing in terms of reporting ads. I'm not sure how to get that to happen technically, especially in such a way that it isn't noticed until needed, and then is obvious. Maybe someone will have an idea, so I'll throw that out there.

 

[Clarity]

What ... the ... fuck. Just got another redirect, this time to shopica.com, out of the blue while in the TSUN bickering page. Was on the page for about 20-30 seconds and then got redirected. I think Searchtigo.com may have did it (that's also in my browser history for today).

This shit is getting old...

We're getting paid next to nothing for the bulk of the ads. This is definitely not a case where we've loosened our standards in order to make a little extra. No, we're making basically nothing because our grip is so tight, and yet, some garbage still gets through and it's often too slippery for us to catch. The only ads as of late that really amount to anything in of themselves (in terms of CPM) are for NCAA 2010. The rest are remnant bulk-type ads from a variety of sources (as Deety said), and those sources get their ads from a variety of sources.

At the end of the day, your typical ad network automates their incoming campaigns, which means there's no human quality checking. That means the end sites (us) deal with the crap that gets through. Then it's a matter of figuring out, even though they run very very very infrequently so as to make it difficult to get caught, which ad is doing it, from which 4th party, through which ad network, through which bulk network we're using. The tragic thing is that we're using a few of the 'better' bulk groups. Platform-A through Advertising.com as an example. We've opted out of virtually every possible setting, which is to say that if their filters work, then we should never see flashing ads, 'error' ads, forced audio, forced video, pop-ups, pop-unders, uninitiated expansions, shaking, or any of the other sort of crap I've said from day one that BP must be free of.

When we had SportsWar (and I never ever thought I would actually miss being with them), I could email a great guy named Mike, who had contacts at the networks (the networks care when you're a collection of sites resulting in a huge footprint like Sw, not so much when you're a single site), who would in turn do the due diligence to track the ad down. That was when I asked for screenies and URLs, because I'd take all of that to him, and then we'd work together with the contacts (I have mailboxes just full of that old crap from just last December alone) to sort it out.

Now? We turn off networks one at a time, we set the ad positions to 30 second reloads, and we watch. All day, and for me, most of the night.

There's nothing I want more for BP than for it to be free of just exactly the type of crap you're talking about. I don't think it ever will be as long as we have to run remnant ads. So why not drop them entirely and be free of the headache? Because even if they only bring in a couple hundred a month, collectively, that's a couple hundred less than the site is in the hole. Drive aside, BP is in the red every single month, and has been since March.

Solutions:

1. Local ads. If we, through our own userbase, can track down a small number of local businesses who want to advertise on the site, perhaps a few months at a time for an aggressively low rate -- then we can drop remnants completely.

2. "Premium" ads. We're partnered with Fantasy Sports Ventures, a company at least partially owned by USA Today. Other sites under their umbrella include the likes of KFFL. Come the regular season, we're hoping to see 100% of our inventory filled with ads sold by FSV. High quality, relevant, targeted campaigns, just like the aforementioned NCAA 10 campaign. However, that's just during the season, and who knows, maybe they won't come through at all?

3. No ads at all, in which case BP probably needs to run drives 2-3x as effective as our best to date (last year, full year). Old-school O-Zone type drives.

4. We partner with a commercial site, adding our community to their content, and lose our independence.

5. We charge monthly fees.

5 is absurd. Not while I have a say.

I can't and won't do 4. Any way I imagine it working, it undermines everything this site is and has been about. We had a very kind and generous offer months ago that would have covered all of our (and my) money needs. Not worth it.

3? I lose sleep over how much effort (none of it my own) goes into running the drives, let alone the generosity of everyone who contributes to it, compounded against my own guilt associated with not having the site or myself more self-sufficient. As our drives have *always* been smaller numbers of people giving more, rather than larger numbers of people giving less, 3 is impractical.

2? Everything hinges on 2 right now. If premium ads don't come in this Fall, and pay relatively quickly, then difficult decisions will probably have to be made on my end in order to assure BP keeps going.

1? One is the ideal scenario. We can give local companies more bang for their buck than any other form of advertising, I'm certain of that. A dollar spent here by a local restaurant, grocery, hardware store, bar, etc. reaches a passionate group of people who will be appreciative that the site is online because of that sponsor. When SW brought in national campaigns, BP led the charge in terms of fans letting the sponsors know they appreciated the support. A local bar wants to sponsor us? We'll see if we can arrange get-togethers there for BP locals. Someone like Snowville Creamery wants to pimp their entirely outstanding locally and naturally produced dairy products? I will gush about them more than I am even now, because I believe in what they're doing. Shit, I bet someone will try them out after reading this, just because someone else who is part of the BP family recommended it. This is the lowest impact option. The one that gives US the most control over what does and does not reach the site. It means (if it's solid enough) that we don't need remnants, don't need 3rd party premiums, that no one but us dictates content on our site. But how do we 'sell' this to local companies, and what local companies? I don't have those answers.

Make no mistake, I'm not venting back at your vent. I just want to take this opportunity to be clear about how much our current ad situation pains me, how much time Deety (for one) is devoting to it, and how desperate a situation BP's economics are.

There's little I wouldn't do right now to fix this issue. I hate associating BP with this stuff, and I fear that it's quite literally slowly killing the site and community. Our traffic this offseason is the lowest it's been in over 4 years. Is it the general malaise of the last few bowl losses? Is it the evolution of the fan community away from this form of interaction? Is it bottom-of-the-barrel ads we've suffered since late last year, and all the headaches that have gone with it? Is it that pay sites have really stepped up their games and we're just less relevant finally? Maybe it's a little of all of the above. I don't know. Our size has never been something I've really cared about. If anything, I often worried about being too big, not too small. But when things dip the way they have, a story is being told, and right now the language in which it's written is out of my grasp. It could well be that traffic this fall will be on par or higher than it was last fall, and that it's just the summer that's off. No idea.

Anyway, that's the ad situation right now. I'd love nothing more than to see a solution to the issue grow organically out the site, the way so many other positive changes have. Just hasn't happened yet, but maybe we haven't planted the right seeds. With humility and respect to the general audience, here's another.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Just for the record...if any local bar advertises on BP, they'll get a shit load of business from me.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Just had the browser lock up while it was trying to load an ad from www.crackle.com...not the first time this crackle ad had jacked stuff up. I heard a video game laser sound and then some voice starting to speak and then it just freezes. I tried to scroll up to see the ad and get a screencap, but the browser was totally unresponsive. The status bar on the lower left showed it was loading from www.crackle.com.

 

[AKAK]

1? One is the ideal scenario. We can give local companies more bang for their buck than any other form of advertising, I'm certain of that. A dollar spent here by a local restaurant, grocery, hardware store, bar, etc. reaches a passionate group of people who will be appreciative that the site is online because of that sponsor. When SW brought in national campaigns, BP led the charge in terms of fans letting the sponsors know they appreciated the support. A local bar wants to sponsor us? We'll see if we can arrange get-togethers there for BP locals. Someone like Snowville Creamery wants to pimp their entirely outstanding locally and naturally produced dairy products? I will gush about them more than I am even now, because I believe in what they're doing. Shit, I bet someone will try them out after reading this, just because someone else who is part of the BP family recommended it. This is the lowest impact option. The one that gives US the most control over what does and does not reach the site. It means (if it's solid enough) that we don't need remnants, don't need 3rd party premiums, that no one but us dictates content on our site. But how do we 'sell' this to local companies, and what local companies? I don't have those answers.

Well-- here's the thing... and I think that Deety and I are trying to work through this with WMG... but... it's tough because it's a niche product and probably not the right demographic.... and not especially cheap either.

If anyone out there knows businesses that are a bit more "consumable"... like local pizza shops... Heck, I don't know... carwashes... whatever... then you could do a coupon exchange a little bit more umm... voluminous.

Don't want to tell anyone how to set it up.. but... in the back of my mind, I sort of feel like there's a kind of local trading post here... Get coupons for Pizza House or WMG or Jiffy Lube type place... or a farmers market or whatever...

Then sort of the next step is to (I think) start gettting the user base to say... "Hey, there's a printable ad (or whatever) on this site for something I think you'd be interested in... if that makes sense.

I know it seems counterintuitive-- since we're working with a website and web based advertising.. but... word of mouth is still the best advertising and within a community like this, to have someone you "sort of know" be able to recommend a product (See Snowville Creamery-- though my lactose intolerance is kicking up just reading the name. )-- that's a powerful tool for both BP and the company advertising.

Of course, now I feel like a moron.. because I should have more info on the WMG thread... or... maybe more types of coupons available.

But, let me just say this to the masses... for small businesses (especially in times like they are now) EVERY LITTLE bit helps. I mean, for me, even if I only got 2 or 3 new customers and one repeat out of that, this is worth it for me. So, if you know a small business owner that might benefit from helping BP out, don't think of it as an imposition... everyone wants to reach new audiences with their particular products... and... if you see something on hear that you think a non-member would be interested in.... please let them know.

Anyway, generally I suck a marketing... but... that's just some thoughts.

 

[Deety]

Definitely, we could set up a spot for local coupons or even rotate them through a module in the skyscraper column.

"Are you on the internet again?"

"Yes, and I'm saving us money!"

:p

It falls right into what we're doing with ads, with a friendlier flavor. If anyone wants their favorite businesses to participate, just tell them to email [email protected] for details.

Actually, I could really use a "top 10" sort of list for various categories if anyone feels inclined to pass along their personal lists. Today is "email campaign" day, and since it takes time to research email addresses for companies, it would be best to work on recommendations. For example, I can find a list of 50 car dealerships in Columbus, but have no idea which are the main ones. Another helpful bit of information would be what local companies you see advertising most often on television or billboards.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Yet again I got redirected to an abcjmp.com page, this time from the "Cookie crumbles" thread in the Reference Locker. Got sent to:

http://www.abcjmp.com/jump2/?affiliate=ezanga4&subid=57749456&terms=glutathione

 

[Clarity]

Where you're being sent doesn't really tell us much. Had the top ad already loaded when you were redirected? Had the 300x250? If so, did you see what either of them were?

While I believe you're being redirected, I don't understand why you're being hit so hard by it. I've been redirected twice over the last 4 days (loading ads literally every 30 seconds 24 hours per day), and those came while we were turning networks off trying to narrow down which one was causing it.

So we need to do the same thing with you. We need to figure out if it's coming from the 300x250, or the top banner (leaderboard), or if there's another explanation.

I imagine we'll be turning off one of the networks currently running to see if the behavior continues. Keep reporting if you see redirects, and just give us as much info as you can in regards to what loads, what doesn't, etc.

It would be great if others would report this as well, if they're seeing the same behavior.

I suppose it's possible that it's some sort of regional deal hitting you because you're in Hawaii. No idea. If that's the case, then we'll be relying 100% upon you to give us enough information to figure out where it's coming from.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I've been redirected twice in the last 20 minutes. I wasn't sure what I hit or why it happened the first time, but the second time, I had the mouse arrow on the scroll on the right. I wasn't hitting any ads the second time. It redirected me to some yellowpages site.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Where you're being sent doesn't really tell us much. Had the top ad already loaded when you were redirected? Had the 300x250? If so, did you see what either of them were?

Happened so fast I didn't get a achance. It seems to wait for a few seconds before the redirect...each time it has happened I've been in the middle of perusing the thread when, "Bang", I get redirected.

I finally got smart and downloaded the hosts file as suggested in the "Your computer - you should have total control over it" thread. I had stopped doing it since I got this computer about 18 months ago (running Vista). I won't make that mistake again.

Now, virtually none of the ads appear in their spaces...just a bunch of blank boxes or "Cannot displayed the requested page" message there.