Smart Car to US...Finally!

[sandgk]

 

[utgrad73]

Where's the flux capacitor?

 

[mercer_buckeye]

Can you believe the ass Marty McFly got?

 

[rocketman]

or anyone who isn't interested in going directly to work and directly home afterwords. i don't think people realize exactly how much freedom you sacrifice with electric. you are literally locking yourself in to only traveling as far as a "charge" can take you in a day. that may not sound like a big deal. but any trip across a state like ohio to see the parents is either going to have to be done by bus, plane, or what may have normally taken a couple hours will now take a couple of days. if i have an electric car with a range of 400 miles and i want to travel to my aunt's who lives 420 miles away. i have to stay at a motel to charge my car both on the way there and on the way back.


think about your yearly life for a moment. how many times per year do you drive somewhere that takes more than 1 tank of gas to get to? imagine that every additional tank of gas required a full nights stay at a motel.

what happens in a natural disaster? if you live in say florida and a hurricane is coming up the atlantic what on earth do you do? you can travel a max of 400 miles a day. then stop and charge for 10 or so hours. it could literally take days to get out of the state depending on where you live. let alone to a safe area. what kind of lead time would you need just to grab a change of clothes and get out in time? not to mention the logistical nightmare that would come with trying to support such a mass exodus. it takes minutes to fill up a gas tank and a gas station has the ability to fuel thousands of cars. imagine a charge station that is limited by the number of rooms it possesses because your not just charging the car. you have to have accommodations for as many as 2 adults and children. whats the ratio of charge stations to gas stations the average town/city would require? i can't imagine but its gotta be a big number.

Ok, it looks like some "outside the box thinking" is in order. First, I think you overestimate the number of people you believe need to travel across the state on a daily basis. I'm wiling to bet 70-80% of everyone's daily commuting is done within the city. I personally don't go on long road trips that would require multiple fill-ups along the way. If you're constantly logging thousands of highway miles a month on long trips a) you're part of the minority and b) electric cars aren't for you. No where did I say it would be the solution for everyone.

Second, I think you might be underestimating the capability of the newest generation of electric cars. Some of the first production electric cars to hit the market, like the Aptera, come with a series gas generator that boosts the range of the battery by keeping it charged, even while your driving it. So you have a safety net. With that system, you won't be stranded halfway between your home and your destination. You can keep chugging along on whatever reserve fuel you have. Charging times for the Tesla Roadster average about 3 hours starting from completely dead. Still not as convenient as gas, but a hell of a lot better than 10 hours. We can do this with today's technology.

If you live in a hurricane zone and you think that it's very likely that you'll have to pack up and move inland, potentially driving thousands of miles at a moments notice, guess what? Don't get an electric car.

If you live in a metropolitan area, commute mostly around the city, and don't have to drive across the state on a weekly basis, I think an electric car could work out just fine for you. I also think that quite a lot of people in this country fit that description. Added bonus if you live in the Southwest, as you could take advantage of a solar power grid to charge your car. Last I checked, quite a few people live in metropolitan areas in the Southwest. If you don't fit that description, don't buy an electric car.

 

[Taosman]

Nuke is a very viable option. :atom:

 

[utgrad73]

i have to disagree here. ive been on the lookout for a new truck for the last 3 years. specifically i am interested in a mid range turbo diesel v6 with good gas mileage. reason im interested in diesel is because of the power it produces, reliability, and the wide array of fuels it can support. at the time i was specifically interested in biodiesel. in researching biodiesel i started researching a wide array of alternative fuel sources.

Cummins is currently undergoing a new engine plant for a new diesel V8. The engine is targeted for automotive and truck applications. It's a high speed engine design producing 300 hp. I don't have any numbers other than that, as it's still in design. This engine will be produced near Indy.

Cummins turbo diesels are currently installed in Dodge trucks.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

electric - power is largely produced by burning fossil fuels or coal. net gain - 0. in fact, my understanding of the fuel problem is that our cars amount to roughly 30% of america's fossil fuel demands. the other 70% goes to industry.

Largely, but not totally (we still have a significant amount of nuclear and dam generated power), whereas cars, trucks, motorcycles, trains, planes, etc., run entirely by burning fossil fuels or coal. And, as human nature would cause, people who charged their electric cars would start trying to find ways to reduce their now-higher eletric bills and thus would be much more frugal on how they use (e.g., waste) electricity. Also, there would be fuel savings in the elimiation of trips to the gas station by consumers and elmination of gas deliveries by tanker trucks.

if we all went to electric only cars our fossil fuel consumption as a country would likely go up, not down.

How does Windex taste?

 

[utgrad73]

HydroGen Corporation Reports Results for the Fiscal 2008 First Quarter: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

HydroGen Corporation Reports Results for the Fiscal 2008 First Quarter
Thursday May 15, 8:48 am ET
CLEVELAND, May 15, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- HydroGen Corporation (NasdaqCM:HYDG - News), a designer and manufacturer of multi-megawatt air-cooled phosphoric acid fuel cell (PAFC) systems, today announced its financial results for the quarter ended March 31, 2008. HydroGen Corporation is currently in the development stage and is expected to remain so for at least the next several quarters.
Recent Corporate and Operational Highlights * Start-up of Commercial Demonstration Power Plant. HydroGen Corporation successfully started up its first full-scale commercial demonstration fuel cell power plant at ASHTA Chemicals, Inc.'s chlor-alkali facility. The start up of the PAFC plant, which uses by-product hydrogen to generate electrical power, positions the Company for near term commercial deployment of its multi-megawatt PAFC plants for the chemical industry. In the testing completed since initial startup, the plant has demonstrated expected performance during various start-up, operational, and shut-down modes and power levels.

Progress on Multi-Megawatt PAFC Plant Design for First Commercial Sale. The Company is working with an architect engineering firm to complete engineering and design efforts to support the Company's first planned sale of a multi-megawatt plant to Samsung Corporation. The design package, which includes process flow diagrams (including process simulations), process and instrumentation drawings, equipment specifications and data sheets, a preliminary hazardous operations study, and development of cost reduction strategies, is on schedule.

This is a new process still trying to find investors. It is a multi-megawatt fuel cell for use in industrial facilities. Hopefully this will take the load off power plants in the future and provide an alternative to fossil fuel power generation. Good news for Ohio and its industrial base.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

McCain has already said that one of his first moves should he become POTUS is to immediately start construction of 20 new nuclear power plants.

If we can have nuclear powered submarines, why can't we have nuclear powered cars?

 

[Taosman]

Big Oil's Big Problem.......an interesting read. Should make all angrier.

Big Oil's big 'problem' - MSN Money

 

[Taosman]

McCain has already said that one of his first moves should he become POTUS is to immediately start construction of 20 new nuclear power plants.

If we can have nuclear powered submarines, why can't we have nuclear powered cars?

Knowing his politics and "friends" it's understandable where he's coming from.
Some nuke will be necessary. But solar and gas and "cleaned" coal will be important.

 

[martinss01]

Nuke is a very viable option. :atom:

from a technology standpoint, yes i agree with you. from a political one, i don't see it happening. im not looking to debate the politics portion of it. but i am curious if you feel that with the current political landscape nuke is something that we can move forward with.

Cummins is currently undergoing a new engine plant for a new diesel V8. The engine is targeted for automotive and truck applications. It's a high speed engine design producing 300 hp. I don't have any numbers other than that, as it's still in design. This engine will be produced near Indy.

Cummins turbo diesels are currently installed in Dodge trucks.

as is ford and chevy supposedly. though ive heard ford has already scrapped their concept which was being built off the euro land rover engine. estimated fuel economy on that was something like 31 to 44mpg depending on whose reports you believe. i haven't heard anything about diesel recently which is a tad dissapointing. have you?

Largely, but not totally (we still have a significant amount of nuclear and dam generated power),

completely agree. just going off memory (says the sleep apnea guy) nuke i believe accounts for less than 20% and i can't imagine water is very high on the list at present. additionally, i believe we are still buying a lot of our power from canada.


rocketman, im not saying electic won't work under any situation. rather that i don't think it is a cure all solution. which after reading your reply i get the feeling you feel the same. if elec works for you thats great. expecially if the power for those cars is coming from wind, water, or solar. reading you and taos' thoughts it seems it may be very viable in the southwest. i really can't speak to that so i will take your word for it. i was looking at the debate from more of a nation wide point of view rather than a regional one.

 

[Taosman]

California is a huge user of energy. Nukes and natural gas and wind and solar, could all be positioned in the Mojave Desert to supply energy to So Cal. Bad idea to put nukes in So Cal(populations). You could do them safer in the desert areas. Wind and solar need space. Desert also. Natural gas is were you find it.

East coast has a different set of problems because of lack of open spaces and large populations. Natural gas and coal will have to be used primarily.
East coast power grid is in deep trouble and will need a major infusion of money from the government. $$$$$ But, it must get done. We don't have a choice.

Nuke will have to be used in some cases despite objections/politics. High price of oil makes it(nuke) a reasonable cost.

We have resources we just need governmental leadership.
It's a national security matter, now.

 

[OCBuckWife]

California is a huge user of energy. Nukes and natural gas and wind and solar, could all be positioned in the Mojave Desert to supply energy to So Cal. Bad idea to put nukes in So Cal(populations). You could do them safer in the desert areas. Wind and solar need space. Desert also. Natural gas is were you find it.

We have wind farms, Tao.

In the year 2004, wind energy in California produced 4,258 million kilowatt-hours of electricity, about 1.5 percent of the state's total electricity. That's more than enough to light a city the size of San Francisco.

Our energy commission has been using, and urging residents to use, solar power for quite awhile now. The 2005 Federal Energy bill helped by providing incentives. We have a large solar power plant in, as you guessed, the Mojave already.

We have two nuclear power plants regularly operating in California, San Onofre, and Diablo Canyon. You can't really put them in a desert area, they require large amounts of water for cooling, generally.

Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) owns the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, which consists of two units. Unit 1 is a 1,073 megawatt (MW) PWR which began commercial operation in May 1985, while Unit 2 is a 1,087 MW PWR which began commercial operation in March 1986.​

Southern California Edison Co. and San Diego Gas & Electric own the two operating units at the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station. Unit 2 is a 1,070 MW PWR that began commercial operation in August 1983, while Unit 3 is a 1,080 MW PWR that began commercial operation in April 1984.​

And of course California is a huge user of energy, as you put it, we are one of the largest, most densely populated(urban) states. Kinda goes without saying.
​

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

completely agree. just going off memory (says the sleep apnea guy) nuke i believe accounts for less than 20% and i can't imagine water is very high on the list at present. additionally, i believe we are still buying a lot of our power from canada.

Nuclear power was just under 20% (19.4%) and hydroelectric power was 7.0%. That's 26.4% of our power being generated by "clean" sources. Now, I'm not sure how "clean" natural gas is, but at 20.0% of total produced power, if it were twice as "clean" (or half as "dirty") as coal and pertroleum sources, that's an equivilent of another 10% "clean" energy. Thus, there's a 36.4% (guesstimate) chance that an electric vehicle would be charged by a "clean" source, thus having a net pollution footprint of zero.