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SimPLLLLLLLe Jim "6-13" Harbaugh (B1G Suspenders McKhakiPants, Cheater Cheater Booger Eater)

Glad to see this from a *ichigan fan because I have thought the same thing as an avid recruiting follower. The last two years have absolutely sucked for us because we have lost with better talent on paper, and badly. 2 years ago I can get with a do or die situation that Harbaugh faced, plus being at home and our defense was atrocious even against MAC schools. This year it was unacceptable at home with a supposedly improved defensive scheme.

But the part I very much agree with is that the recruiting gaps take a little time to show up and I think Harbaugh is not particularly adept to bring in blue-chip guys every year, even with the recent success. He seems to develop players well, but I think he would get over the hump if he got the talent up in recruiting and then developed that talent, rather than developing 3* types into better players than they were as recruits. Not trying to pile on or anything, I just tend to agree that the recent success is not sustainable if the recruiting doesn't get better.

As to the recent investigation, it will be interesting to see what the NCAA can actually do here, or will try to do. OSU has consistently fucked itself on recruiting violations by admitting everything and bending over voluntarily. Everyone just needs to tell the NCAA to go fuck itself and carry on. Poor Tressel tried to be a choir boy and got demolished for it. Everyone follow the SEC script in either denying allegations, or just refuse cooperating with the NCAA. It has worked out very well for every team that has taken that approach. But if the NCAA tries to make an example of *ichigan and try to show they have teeth, I will start buttering the popcorn.

Slight correction. Tressel wasn't the choir boy by any stretch. He tried to lie about things to the ncaa and to his bosses but got busted. It's not like he turned himself in to the NCAA. Gee and Smith turned him in to the NCAA. Should they have done that? I can see the arguments against it, but I'll always believe that they did the right thing. Whatever the rules are now, lying to your employer still gets you fired 99% of the time, and JT got what was coming to him.
 
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The biggest secret nobody knows about Michigan is that for all of our "training up the 3 stars" cred, the reality is the 12-2 team, and the 13-1 team were built around 4 and 5 star athletes we recruited BEFORE 2021. You can fill in the holes with 3 star super seniors, you can train up a Ronnie Bell once in a while, but imagine this year's Michigan team without:

JJ McCarthy, Blake Corum, Donovan Edwards, Mazi Smith, Will Johnson, Cornelius Johnson, Roman Wilson, Mason Graham, and a couple other key backups.

That's an 8-4 team even with a dogcrap schedule. And that's where we're headed after this season, based on those last two recruiting classes. It's very, very awkward and it's why I won't be sad to see Harbaugh go if this really is his last ride.

I knew McCarthy and Will Johnson were highly rated, but were the rest top 100 guys in ratings or 4* guys below that? OSU takes plenty of recruits that are 4* and not top 100, I just can't recall much about the other names when they were recruits.
 
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I knew McCarthy and Will Johnson were highly rated, but were the rest top 100 guys in ratings or 4* guys below that? OSU takes plenty of recruits that are 4* and not top 100, I just can't recall much about the other names when they were recruits.

Lol; I can't tell if you're roasting me, but if so, it's a pretty good one.

Michigan does not recruit as well as OSU and the dividing line between top 5 recruiting classes, and say number 15, is way bigger than folks realize. We don't get to stack top 100 players on top of each other like you guys do. And I'm not making excuses, I wish we would just copy everything OSU does in recruiting and get on their level, but we're not at that level; even BEFORE Harbaugh started churning out classes ranked in the mid-late teens.

That having been said however, it's all relative right? Most of those guys I listed were mid four stars, and top 200 players. In our last two classes, we've actually taken a step down in terms of recruiting "level." So a typical Michigan class might include one 5 star, a few top 200 players, and then a bunch of high three star "prospects." Now we're not getting any five stars, our (handful of) big catches are low four stars, and a ton of our 3 stars are "climbers" - which is a polite way of saying they'd be low quality prospects, but since Michigan offered them, the recruiting media analysts don't want to look foolish, so they get raised up to the 3.5, 3.6 kind of level.

So for example, OSU is worried about its last class because it's a 10th overall ranked class; it's a cut below what you guys are used to getting in the Meyer-Day era. Well number 10, is a pretty average class for Michigan; except this year? We're number 17 and frankly that ranking is very kind; it could have been lower but some of our rawest prospects are getting the P5 offer bump. We've fallen FUTHER than you did in your "down year" except we didn't start as high as you did, AND we've done it two years in a row now.

You can only do so much "development" - eventually classes that scream "a good year for Purdue" start producing Purdue-like results on the field.
 
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Glad to see this from a *ichigan fan because I have thought the same thing as an avid recruiting follower. The last two years have absolutely sucked for us because we have lost with better talent on paper, and badly. 2 years ago I can get with a do or die situation that Harbaugh faced, plus being at home and our defense was atrocious even against MAC schools. This year it was unacceptable at home with a supposedly improved defensive scheme.

But the part I very much agree with is that the recruiting gaps take a little time to show up and I think Harbaugh is not particularly adept to bring in blue-chip guys every year, even with the recent success. He seems to develop players well, but I think he would get over the hump if he got the talent up in recruiting and then developed that talent, rather than developing 3* types into better players than they were as recruits. Not trying to pile on or anything, I just tend to agree that the recent success is not sustainable if the recruiting doesn't get better.

As to the recent investigation, it will be interesting to see what the NCAA can actually do here, or will try to do. OSU has consistently fucked itself on recruiting violations by admitting everything and bending over voluntarily. Everyone just needs to tell the NCAA to go fuck itself and carry on. Poor Tressel tried to be a choir boy and got demolished for it. Everyone follow the SEC script in either denying allegations, or just refuse cooperating with the NCAA. It has worked out very well for every team that has taken that approach. But if the NCAA tries to make an example of *ichigan and try to show they have teeth, I will start buttering the popcorn.
The extra year granted by the COVID rules has also given them a big boost.
 
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Lol; I can't tell if you're roasting me, but if so, it's a pretty good one.

Michigan does not recruit as well as OSU and the dividing line between top 5 recruiting classes, and say number 15, is way bigger than folks realize. We don't get to stack top 100 players on top of each other like you guys do. And I'm not making excuses, I wish we would just copy everything OSU does in recruiting and get on their level, but we're not at that level; even BEFORE Harbaugh started churning out classes ranked in the mid-late teens.

That having been said however, it's all relative right? Most of those guys I listed were mid four stars, and top 200 players. In our last two classes, we've actually taken a step down in terms of recruiting "level." So a typical Michigan class might include one 5 star, a few top 200 players, and then a bunch of high three star "prospects." Now we're not getting any five stars, our (handful of) big catches are low four stars, and a ton of our 3 stars are "climbers" - which is a polite way of saying they'd be low quality prospects, but since Michigan offered them, the recruiting media analysts don't want to look foolish, so they get raised up to the 3.5, 3.6 kind of level.

So for example, OSU is worried about its last class because it's a 10th overall ranked class; it's a cut below what you guys are used to getting in the Meyer-Day era. Well number 10, is a pretty average class for Michigan; except this year? We're number 17 and frankly that ranking is very kind; it could have been lower but some of our rawest prospects are getting the P5 offer bump. We've fallen FUTHER than you did in your "down year" except we didn't start as high as you did, AND we've done it two years in a row now.

You can only do so much "development" - eventually classes that scream "a good year for Purdue" start producing Purdue-like results on the field.

Definitely not roasting you, I appreciate your insight and great post. I have enough time to follow OSU closely and the top recruits we are after, so I only generally know that you guys have been down on recruiting but have hit on some big names here and there. We briefly were in on McCarthy and W Johnson, so I definitely recognize them. Just seemed like you've had a remarkably high amount over "over performer" types the last two seasons aside from the highly ranked recruits. Maybe I missed that most of the key guys were fairly highly ranked recruits.

I would be surprised if *ichigan doesn't have a much better class in '24. If they don't after two conference championships and playoff appearances, the only answer is Harbaugh is not an elite recruiter irrespective of whether he is a good coach or produces results with what he gets. Judging by your post, your fans might already think that is the case and if I am being honest I thought that after the 1st year he coached. Just seems he is better fit for the NFL without the recruiting prowess, but if I were in your shoes I would do anything to keep him at this point with recent results and him being a former player, and then try to get some ace recruiter coordinator to mostly run that front. Day is great with recruits as a HC and especially with QBs since that was his position, but we don't have the classes we had under his tenure without LJ Sr and Hartline, who are the best at what they do at their positions.

I think the good news for you guys is with your schedule you can put a lot of lipstick on the pig for at least 2/3's of the year even if you have recruited at a Purdue level. But even putting bias aside, if our recruits pan out we've got a very good team next year and I don't think 3 years in a row will happen even being at home. Then again I legit thought there was maybe a 5% of losing this year at home, so wtf do I know.
 
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Gee and Smith turned him in to the NCAA. Should they have done that? I can see the arguments against it, but I'll always believe that they did the right thing.

[PSU Cult]They should have turned him in to their boss.[/PSU Cult]
I'm not sure who Gee's boss was. Wait - he was worried whether Tressel would fire him. So maybe Tressel was Gee's boss. Gee should have reported Tressel's issues to Tressel?
Oww... this hurts my head. That cult is so weird.
 
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Slight correction. Tressel wasn't the choir boy by any stretch. He tried to lie about things to the ncaa and to his bosses but got busted. It's not like he turned himself in to the NCAA. Gee and Smith turned him in to the NCAA. Should they have done that? I can see the arguments against it, but I'll always believe that they did the right thing. Whatever the rules are now, lying to your employer still gets you fired 99% of the time, and JT got what was coming to him.
Most, if not all, employees have lied to their boss at one time or another, and not been fired for it.
 
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Most, if not all, employees have lied to their boss at one time or another, and not been fired for it.

Over something of the magnitude that it would drag the company through a national public relations nightmare, cost a shitton of money in damage control and jeapordize the cash cow that supports one of its divisions? Tressel didn't lie about stealing office supplies. He got what was coming to him.
 
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Over something of the magnitude that it would drag the company through a national public relations nightmare, cost a shitton of money in damage control and jeapordize the cash cow that supports one of its divisions? Tressel didn't lie about stealing office supplies. He got what was coming to him.
It was a public relations nightmare because OSU is the absolute worst at public relations. It didn’t jeopardize a dime, and it’s completely ignorant to believe otherwise. They should have told the NCAA to pound sand like everyone else. OSU fans, and the entire state of Ohio for that matter, hold Coach Tressel in the highest regard. Great man!

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