Should semipro/college players be paid, or allowed to sell their stuff? (NIL and Revenue Sharing)

[Zander42]

What I'm not sure of, is how this law has anything to do with the NCAA. NCAA bylaws =/= state/federal laws. Our guys selling gold pants for tattoos, was not in any way illegal, but against NCAA rules.

So if a guy at a California school gets money from an endorsement, why can't the NCAA suspend him, just like always?

Seems like a possible fight between California and the NCAA.

 

[buckeyebri]

Yeah...the sanctity of college sports is going to die because the the talent wants to be paid. *eye roll*

Such a lazy take. No idea why people are so married to the idea (sham) of amateurism. How does that make the GAMES better?

Because the model that works for college baseball and hockey, couldn’t work for football????

It would be the same for basketball if it weren’t for the have to play one year or be out of high school for a year rule.

 

[cincibuck]

Just thinking off the top of what's left of my head: 1. I don't think Ive ever seen such a gap between the top 6 or 7 programs and the rest of the D-1 schools. 2. How do you keep things even - Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Notre Dame - become the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox of college football the rest become the Reds and Marlins. Or maybe, that's the way it already is/has been. I mean, WTF is the value of a player's jersey from Iowa State or Indiana in comparison to the value of one from Ohio State? It just seems to me that this will only increase the disparity between the haves and the have nots and increase the "professionalism" of what is already "semi-pro" football.

 

[ScriptOhio]

OHIO TO CONSIDER LAW TO ALLOW COLLEGE ATHLETES TO SIGN ENDORSEMENT DEALS AND PROFIT OFF OF NAME AND LIKENESS, PER REPORT

Two days after California became the first state to allow student-athletes at state schools to profit from their name and likeness, Ohio could be moving to do the same.

Ohio will consider a law allowing college athletes to sign endorsement deals and profit from their image and likeness, Ben Garbarek of WSYX ABC 6 reports. The details are not yet available, but Garbarek reports that the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus is working on a proposal similar to California's Fair Play Act, which governor Gavin Newsom officially signed on Monday.

Both Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith and university president Michael Drake have expressed concern with the California law, which will go into action in 2023.

“So we have the collegiate model of sport and the professional model of sport, and I think that my colleagues and I are devoted to keeping those appropriately distinct, and protecting those things which make college athletics so special to so many people,” Drake told Eleven Warriors in an interview earlier this month.

Smith suggested that the California state institutions will not be part of the NCAA and said Ohio State will not play schools from California after the law is implemented.

“If the California law goes into effect in ’23,” Smith told USA TODAY, “and let’s say the NCAA legislation, however it emerges, doesn’t quite meet what California wants it to be and they continue to hold that law, who’s going to play (California schools)? We’re certainly not. They won’t be members of the NCAA. I think that’s going to be the problem.”

Smith spoke more thoroughly about the new California law ahead of Tuesday's typical media availability with Ohio State football players and coaches, expressing concern about the standardization and regulation of the law from state to state.

“We can’t have a situation where we have schools and/or states with different rules for an organization that’s going to compete together,” Smith said.

Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...deals-and-profit-off-of-name-and-likeness-per

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

@Buckeyeskickbuttocks



An exception does not make the rule. Also, Craig Krenzel works in sales. Do you think he was able to maximize his time building connections and interning in his field? Are you really oblivious that this is going on?

http://dailyorange.com/2018/02/su-athletes-said-forced-majors-not-want-following-national-trend/

My point was only that you were overstating the issue. Of course I am aware certain players are funneled into less intense areas of study. Fact is, a lot of those players are not likely to have been college materiel but for their sports abilities. Your post suggested this was true of every athlete. It is not.

Is the network driving that narrative or are you making things up? There are people on both sides of the argument that are on ESPN. They literally just had Tim Tebow saying college athletes shouldn’t be paid on ESPN. Some agreed and some disagreed.

Well, here, in truth, I'll have to defer. I haven't watched much of any ESPN "talent" for going on 20 years now. However, I have seen (more the point, heard) ESPN talking heads go on about this for quite a while, whether on local sports radio or the in game commentary/halftime/post-game segments I have seen, to go along with what people say here. But, with that said, I'll remind you that it was YOU who made the claim about a certain network controlling things. It's curious to me why you're willing to believe ESPN is "controlling" college football, but you balk at them "controlling the pay em narrative."

And apparently something that has absolutely no impact on you or your pockets will be the final nail in the coffin, right?

Huh? Dude, I fucking agreed with you.

Denzel sat out because he was protecting his draft position. That has nothing to do with a player getting paid for his likeness. You can’t sit out to “protect your likeness.” Did you not think about the difference before you typed it?

This is a fair point. I did conflate the California law's allowing profiting off one's image or likeness with ideas based on a more broad "pay the players" discussion.

 

[cincibuck]

As late as 2014 the NCAA claimed that 24 out of the 53 Power 5 programs made money. We know who picks up the bill at those schools who don't make a profit. If, from that profit, schools have to pay football and basketball players, what's going to happen to non-revenue sport scholies? What are the implications if Title IX remains in force?

Faculties are already aware of school budgets being tapped to keep sports alive, what's going to happen when that tap gets expanded so the Miamis and Bowling Greens of this world increase that stream to include salaries for programs that can't make a profit?

I'm not so naive as to believe that all the pigs get treated equally in the current set up, but what's going to happen when Fields gets more money than Chase Young? What's going to happen when Alabama offers a five star more than LSU does?

Issue of "fairness" aside, I think this will be the end of college sports as we know them.

 

[buckeyebri]

As late as 2014 the NCAA claimed that 24 out of the 53 Power 5 programs made money. We know who picks up the bill at those schools who don't make a profit. If, from that profit, schools have to pay football and basketball players, what's going to happen to non-revenue sport scholies? What are the implications if Title IX remains in force?

This is an excellent point Cinci. I was discussing this very point last night with my wife. I wonder what consideration was given by the legislature to where the money comes from for non revenue sports and the potential impact this could have.

 

[Jaxbuck]

As late as 2014 the NCAA claimed that 24 out of the 53 Power 5 programs made money. We know who picks up the bill at those schools who don't make a profit. If, from that profit, schools have to pay football and basketball players, what's going to happen to non-revenue sport scholies? What are the implications if Title IX remains in force?

Faculties are already aware of school budgets being tapped to keep sports alive, what's going to happen when that tap gets expanded so the Miamis and Bowling Greens of this world increase that stream to include salaries for programs that can't make a profit?

I'm not so naive as to believe that all the pigs get treated equally in the current set up, but what's going to happen when Fields gets more money than Chase Young? What's going to happen when Alabama offers a five star more than LSU does?

Issue of "fairness" aside, I think this will be the end of college sports as we know them.

I am in the software business. The most expensive mistake you can make is to start writing code before you have a very specific idea on what problem you are solving, for whom and exactly how they will use your solution to their problem.

Athletes free to make money off likeness does not equal paid salary from school. No?

Maybe you just let it run wide open for a bit, see what actual business people are willing to actually pay college athletes then start making rules off of all the actual good/bad/indifferent things folks do.

NCAA and P5 schools team up to offer the besic beta test speech of "you are free to participate in this, all we need is disclosure/feedback from you on what you are doing"

That's how I would do it. Zero chance in hell a bureaucracy like the NCAA is nimble enough to do something like that. Zero. (and that's why it's going to die)

 

[cjmik_75]

Time for the NCAA to give back all the wins from 2010.

 

[buckeyebri]

I am in the software business. The most expensive mistake you can make is to start writing code before you have a very specific idea on what problem you are solving, for whom and exactly how they will use your solution to their problem.

Athletes free to make money off likeness does not equal paid salary from school. No?

Maybe you just let it run wide open for a bit, see what actual business people are willing to actually pay college athletes then start making rules off of all the actual good/bad/indifferent things folks do.

NCAA and P5 schools team up to offer the besic beta test speech of "you are free to participate in this, all we need is disclosure/feedback from you on what you are doing"

That's how I would do it. Zero chance in hell a bureaucracy like the NCAA is nimble enough to do something like that. Zero. (and that's why it's going to die)

So, your recommending an Agile approach here....I like it....

 

[Jaxbuck]

So, your recommending an Agile approach here....I like it....

I'm on the business side of things, not the code side so it's more of a lean start up approach but, yeah.

Worst thing they can do is start making a bunch of processes/rules/legislation before they understand the real issues.

Mark Twain said it best (paraphrasing): "It's not what you don't know, it's what you think you know that just ain't so" as to where you can make the worst mistakes in terms of unintended consequences and wasted resources.

 

[colobuck79]

What's to keep a billionaire (Phil Knight, eg) from giving $100k each to incoming recruits to do adds for local donut shops, pawn shops, liquor stores, convenience stores, etc.?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

So, your recommending an Agile approach here....I like it....

You could call it that, but we called it proof of concept and or prototyping phases for a long time before agile was a thing

From a control engineering perspective, this is a system with a number of plants/actors/decision-makers (depending on what kind of control engineering you’re doing) that is practically unlimited. The first rule for dealing with such systems is to study their behavior before you mess with them. Then you determine a means of dealing with its emergent properties and behavior stochastically, because it is literally impossible to do it any other way without doing more harm than good. Then you set up systems to measure the effect that your interference has on the system. Only then do you actually attempt to affect the system, with a plan for immediately ending your interference if unintended emergent behavior or properties show up. No organization that is anything like the ncaa has ever even considered ending their interference. When they create problems, they invariably attempt to fix them at the same level of thinking that created them.

To put it another way, “What Jax said”

New management methods notwithstanding, people have been doing stuff like this for a long time. No one who has ever done it well works for any organization that is anything like the ncaa

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

What's to keep a billionaire (Phil Knight, eg) from giving $100k each to incoming recruits to do adds for local donut shops, pawn shops, liquor stores, convenience stores, etc.?

Oregon isn't governed by California law.

 

[zincfinger]

Oregon isn't governed by California law.

Any opinion on the extent to which the NCAA is subject to state law?