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Should semipro/college players be paid, or allowed to sell their stuff? (NIL and Revenue Sharing)

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Gizmo said:
I don't like the system, but I'm not for wage control, I'm for contracting. Lock the players into some kind of years of service requirements and punishments/payback for reneging on them; Limit NIL benefits to once ever, "sure you can transfer schools, but you already got your NIL money, so you can't go chase more money" etc.
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Up to this point it’s been a private citizen and a private business engaging in a contractual relationship. You can put whatever clawback provisions in there you want to.

The market decides on how attractive those clawbacks are however. OSU has clawbacks, Oregon money is fully guaranteed? Guess where kids might be going. Probably why we haven’t heard of them being a major sticking point for anyone. No one can out them in if everyone doesn’t put them in.
 
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Per LR poster:
Gerdeman tweeted: “Spoke with Ross Bjork about Ross Dellenger's report that third-party NIL deals will be relaxed. “Buckeye Sports Group can operate just like a collective
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Per Birm:
I've spent a lot of time talking to Bjork today and, to be honest, this really isn't that different than he/OSU have been planning for. This isn't "collectives run wild" -- the paramenters of their involvement remain the same. It does grant some additional flexibility for OSU on that front though so the clarity is good.
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Game on folks 8D
 
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They are still going to try and tell some business/collective that they can't do a deal with a player and that is interfering with that private, U.S. citizens ability to make their money. I don't care what a bunch of slimy politicians in the house have been paid enough to turn into a bill, the SCOTUS was very clear on this.

They are going to get sued day 1 they tell someone they can't have money from a private NIL deal and the people who sue them have a very high percentage chance of winning. What is worse (for them) is that there is now enough money on the table to make it worth while for lawyers to be waiting to pounce on it.

This is what happens when you try to deal with something new that comes around fast by using an old framework to do manage it. The NCAA and the University systems have zero institutional knowledge on how to set up and run a professional sports organization. What's more, they don't even have a core competency that allows this to be an easy transition to something that is merely adjacent to their core mission/competency.

It's like expecting the Catholic Church to develop AI. Just brutally ineffective and doomed to hilariously silly failures (except if you are an athlete and getting fucked by this mob).
 
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Jaxbuck said:
This my comment about them (in general) still trying to keep the money and being greedy/stupid.

I know they are all highly intelligent and successful in their field but they are used to a certain framework and it’s clouding judgements imo.

They keep making things worse by trying to build new functionality on an old platform. It’s time to reduce, not add. The old structure can’t support all the new weight.

The days when schools and the NCAA got to have their cake and eat it too are done. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just different. Fighting the obvious is the only bad decision here and so far they are doing it.
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Apologies for what some may feel is a little bit of a geek out and for asking the following if you've already dealt with them elsewhere, but I've been thinking about your structure since yesterday and I have a few questions.

1) Since everyone will have a separate LLC for each school and you will be imposing horizontal wage limits, you are going to have to form a joint venture. So who gets invited to the party? The 350 Division 1 schools, the 136 Division 1 FBS schools plus the 47 Division 1 basketball schools or some smaller number then either of those 2 options?

2) Regardless of who gets invited, is the structure of the joint venture a "one for all all for one" or more like the Premier League in England, where there is a plan and play out capacity?
 
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sflbuck said:
Apologies for what some may feel is a little bit of a geek out and for asking the following if you've already dealt with them elsewhere, but I've been thinking about your structure since yesterday and I have a few questions.

1) Since everyone will have a separate LLC for each school and you will be imposing horizontal wage limits, you are going to have to form a joint venture. So who gets invited to the party? The 350 Division 1 schools, the 136 Division 1 FBS schools plus the 47 Division 1 basketball schools or some smaller number then either of those 2 options?

2) Regardless of who gets invited, is the structure of the joint venture a "one for all all for one" or more like the Premier League in England, where there is a plan and play out capacity?
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This is just my first level of thought on it, could be important details I am missing but here is how I'd set my League up:

*Remember the sports team and the school are going to be separate entities and current formation of the B1G as an academic and sports institution will not hold up for football and men's hoops only. This is all football, I don't give a damn about basketball.

1) I invite the current B1G, SEC and ACC schools that want to play this way, shooting for a number like 30. If the Vandy's and Northwestern's don't want to participate, that is fine. They can go back to the old student athlete model like NCAA D3 is now. This is an unabashed pro sports league, comprised of 30 LLC's that have the same name as current schools we all know.

1A) If the Boise State's get butt hurt they can go form their own league, just like Euro soccer, it will be a clear next step down kind of thing.

2) I don't know enough about the Premier League structure to comment on the "all for one vs play it out" concept. I am going by the American pro sports league model where it is a partnership between, say 30, business owners to make money. Athletes are employees, employees can form a union and that union and the owners can collectively bargain around things like a draft, league operating rules, compensation etc etc etc

So OSU goes into a licensing agreement with Columbus Sports Ventures, LLC and they find a the right number to split up the money made from football (TV deals, home games, merchandise etc) Now OSU the school can concentrate on being a school, still get a very healthy income stream and not have to try and fit the round peg in the square hole and manage a completely different business model inside their primary business model.

Now do that x 30 or so at any other school that wants to play and that group of 30 entities is what Fox/ESPN promote as the CFB A league or whatever.

One last thing-I imagine a world where players get a G.I. Bill-like award to come back to the actual school they played under and get a degree. I also think the players should get lifetime health care from any University hospital in the network of 30 teams Kind of a VA set up that is actually good for them).
 
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Jaxbuck said:
This is just my first level of thought on it, could be important details I am missing but here is how I'd set my League up:

*Remember the sports team and the school are going to be separate entities and current formation of the B1G as an academic and sports institution will not hold up for football and men's hoops only. This is all football, I don't give a damn about basketball.

1) I invite the current B1G, SEC and ACC schools that want to play this way, shooting for a number like 30. If the Vandy's and Northwestern's don't want to participate, that is fine. They can go back to the old student athlete model like NCAA D3 is now. This is an unabashed pro sports league, comprised of 30 LLC's that have the same name as current schools we all know.

1A) If the Boise State's get butt hurt they can go form their own league, just like Euro soccer, it will be a clear next step down kind of thing.

2) I don't know enough about the Premier League structure to comment on the "all for one vs play it out" concept. I am going by the American pro sports league model where it is a partnership between, say 30, business owners to make money. Athletes are employees, employees can form a union and that union and the owners can collectively bargain around things like a draft, league operating rules, compensation etc etc etc

So OSU goes into a licensing agreement with Columbus Sports Ventures, LLC and they find a the right number to split up the money made from football (TV deals, home games, merchandise etc) Now OSU the school can concentrate on being a school, still get a very healthy income stream and not have to try and fit the round peg in the square hole and manage a completely different business model inside their primary business model.

Now do that x 30 or so at any other school that wants to play and that group of 30 entities is what Fox/ESPN promote as the CFB A league or whatever.

One last thing-I imagine a world where players get a G.I. Bill-like award to come back to the actual school they played under and get a degree. I also think the players should get lifetime health care from any University hospital in the network of 30 teams Kind of a VA set up that is actually good for them).
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Are the players "students" at all under your model (or maybe they have the option to be students but don't have to be?)? Part of why I ask is because, if not, is there really a rationale for limiting their eligibility in any way? E.g., would somebody like JT Barrett who was very successful in college but didn't have the talent to stick as a QB in the NFL, be able to just play 10-15 years for "Ohio State" like a AAA baseball player or lower league soccer player? If so, what does that do to high school football and current opportunities for kids coming out of it? Could NFL players who wash out of the league come back to play "college" football. E.g., would a 37 year-old CJ Stroud be able to come back and get his gold pants?

I'm not criticizing your proposal at all, but am curious as to some practicalities.
 
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Jagdaddy said:
Are the players "students" at all under your model (or maybe they have the option to be students but don't have to be?)? Part of why I ask is because, if not, is there really a rationale for limiting their eligibility in any way? E.g., would somebody like JT Barrett who was very successful in college but didn't have the talent to stick as a QB in the NFL, be able to just play 10-15 years for "Ohio State" like a AAA baseball player or lower league soccer player? If so, what does that do to high school football and current opportunities for kids coming out of it? Could NFL players who wash out of the league come back to play "college" football. E.g., would a 37 year-old CJ Stroud be able to come back and get his gold pants?

I'm not criticizing your proposal at all, but am curious as to some practicalities.
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That is a point I have thought of and don't have a great answer but here it goes:

The simple answer is "no" they are not students and they don't have a 4 year cap, but to keep it from turning into a Carmen's Crew kind of thing, I would imagine the club owners get together and decide on this as they make their league. It is similar to what the SEC and B1G have already done and alluded to doing more of where they make their own rules from the morass of what the NCAA used to do.

Personally I would set it similar to what we all know now. 4-5 years. Players either get drafted by the NFL, CFL or they are done. Have a mandatory "retirement" age or whatever (say 25). If you really want to deal with the complexity and spice things up you could have a few roster spots for older guys who want to come back. That is the level of detail you only get to once you actually started something and saw how the real world was having it unfold.

I think overall though, you set this particular league up to wash guys through in 4-5 years so the elite HS kids can come up like they do now. Lower level leagues could have different rules to allow different type of players to come through. The OSU type league I envision is just for the current best of the best model, it isn't meant to be universal to all 130 some odd teams/schools playing today.
 
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