Should Penn State Suspend Its Football Program?

[Buckeye86]

JOEPA [strike]DOESN'T[/strike] DIDN'T TEXT!!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEjr4eg8rA"]Charlie Don't Surf! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[AKAK]

I think this is a valid point. Hell, kids break the law every year (DUI is a big one that happens constantly) and don't miss a single second of a single game for it.

Yet, kids who sell their personal property for a profit get suspended for 3/4 of a year because it is an NCAA violation.

Like most things the NCAA does, it makes less than zero sense and the priorities are an absolute joke, but that's the way it is under the farce that is the NCAA.

No, they get suspended for 3/4 of the year for lying about it. It's always the damned coverup. Tress turns the kids in, they get 2 or 3 games, no one loses their job. Same thing here... the powers that be at PSU turn in Sandusky in '98, see here's the conspiracy theory, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it in '01 because they figured they were already fucked from '98 if it came out then, or even earlier.... you want to figure out the unsavories that Freeh is going to look for, it's probably that sort of shit... if they happen to trip across, say a recruiting violation.

As to the idea of leniency listed above... I mean we already know lots of PSU players got in trouble with the law... we already know what Joe's policies on that were... but again, not NCAA stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Freeh did turn things up... but, if I'm the NCAA... I'd be very, very careful with how I handled it. If I were them, the LAST thing I'd want, is to look like you were being extra harsh because of the Sandusky incident...

Because you'd never get it right.

You'd be forced... to say, Okay, what's the worst penalty ever handed out?

Alright, SMU... well, Craig James Hooker Killing ass aside...

Now, we must compare the administration ignoring the NCAA and paying players with harboring and enabling a child molester.

I mean, you can't give them the death penalty 4 million times, and give the whole staff a show cause for 2 centuries... especially the dead/imprisoned ones.... there is no appropriate punishment they can levy for the guilty in this case.

Let's leave the NCAA to competition leveling, etc. I understand the argument that they covered up a crime to preserve their image and as such their reputation and consequently giving themselves something of a competitive advantage (or not suffering a loss of it). But, let the courts handle the crime... and, on the other, they just ended up paying the piper later. The effect to their reputation is worse than it would otherwise have been.

What we don't need is the NCAA running around stretching rules and moralizing more than they do.

If you want the program shut down, ask someone else to do it.

 

[Buckeye86]

No, they get suspended for 3/4 of the year for lying about it. It's always the damned coverup.

I don't recall A.J. Green lying about it, although his suspension was only 1/3 of the season. Still, 4 > 0.

 

[AKAK]

Can they be cited for LOILNBSHM? (Lack of Institutional Leaders Not Being Sub Human Mutants)



Seriously, can the NCAA cite LOIC without having specific rules violations?

Sort of like how a police officer can cite you with Disorderly Conduct when you're not really guilty of anything other than general douchebaggery?

I realize it would be extremely unusual for them to do this, but this is an extremely unusual situation. (Thank God...)

I suppose they could do anything. But, why would they. They point of LOIC is to say that there are rules being broken and you either failed put in place policies and procedures to prevent a violation or failed to monitor and enforce those procedures. I see the violation as kind of key.. sort of like putting to people on trial for conspiracy to commit murder and only convicting one of them. Could you do it? I guess, but, it's kind of stupid. Having said that, yes, a bunch of minor unreported things could add up to LOIC if Freeh, or others, should uncover them (See: Broncos, State, Boise, Smurf)

 

[AKAK]

I don't recall A.J. Green lying about it, although his suspension was only 1/3 of the season. Still, 4 > 0.

Did his coach get shitcanned, with a show cause, and his University a bowl ban and slapped with FTM?

No, because Richt didn't know about it and not tell anyone.

This is the point.

Green specifically broke a rule. Did the punishment fit the crime? That's debatable... but, there was a violation...

Green probably got popped a little harder because the NCAA wanted to make a statement about the agent parties, etc... whatever.

 

[AJHawkfan]

I suppose they could do anything. But, why would they.

Because, for no other reason, it would be the right thing to do. Plain and simple.

Going out on a limb here, so bear with me.....

Let's assume that someone at the NCAA has a decent head on their shoulders AND some semblance of a moral compass.

Let's also assume that the PSU BoT does not see it necessary suspend football operations. (Given the campaign statements of several of the BoT candidates, it just ain't gonna happen.)

Let's also assume that the State of Pennsylvania does not see it necessary to administer any punishment. (Great Leader is already dead - what other punishment could you expect them to endure?)

Could we then look to the NCAA to administer the only institutional punishment for the most horrific coverup the sporting world has ever seen?

 

[Buckeye86]

Did his coach get shitcanned, with a show cause, and his University a bowl ban and slapped with FTM?

No, because Richt didn't know about it and not tell anyone.

This is the point.

Green specifically broke a rule. Did the punishment fit the crime? That's debatable... but, there was a violation...

Green probably got popped a little harder because the NCAA wanted to make a statement about the agent parties, etc... whatever.

My point was that the NCAA slams kids for using eBay while not lifting a finger for serious breaches in criminal law like driving while under the influence.

I was actually agreeing with your point about no NCAA violation- no NCAA action, although I suppose I shouldn't have used the Ohio State example as it hits a little too close to home and sends us on tangents.

 

[AKAK]

Let's assume that someone at the NCAA has a decent head on their shoulders

I'm gonna have to stop you right there.

And it is for that reason, you don't want them involved.

Do you really want the NCAA running around moralizing punishments?

Failure on the part of the PA AG, Legislature, Penn State's BOT (I love "BOT" I think of them like R2-D2's) do not constitute a mandate for the NCAA to act.

Besides.... there's still the civil suits to get through. There's still the full Freeh report to come out... there's still plenty of time to drag their good name through the mud... they still have Bill O'Buttchin as their coach, Joe Ped is still dead... This isn't over by a long shot. In many ways it's just begun.

 

[AKAK]

My point was that the NCAA slams kids for using eBay while not lifting a finger for serious breaches in criminal law like driving while under the influence.

I was actually agreeing with your point about no NCAA violation- no NCAA action, although I suppose I shouldn't have used the Ohio State example as it hits a little too close to home and sends us on tangents.

Yeah, I gotcha.... sorry.

 

[AJHawkfan]

Do you really want the NCAA running around moralizing punishments?

Typically, No. However, I think that in a complete systemic failure like this one, there HAS to be some punishment. If no one else will do it, then I wouldn't mind the NCAA getting into it. Better them than no one....

This isn't over by a long shot. In many ways it's just begun.

Agreed. And until this is over, I am of the opinion that they should suspend all football operations.

I am just so disgusted by the attitude of the PSU fanbase. They are outraged by this whole thing - not the behavior of their leaders that got them into this mess, but because other people around the country are so shocked and appalled by the initial abuse and the subsequent coverup.

These mutants need to learn a little bit about life without football.

 

[Taosman]

The university President will end up in prison.
The university vice President will end up in prison.
The Athletic Director.
The Icon coach died of shame. (lung cancer)
Most of the coaching staff is gone.
The whole nation will understand the nature of a massive, morally bankrupt cover up.
And the FBI is involved.
The NCAA will do something because they must show the whole world of college sports they are still relevant. This is one of the worse scandals in NCAA sports and all sports history.
This isn't over. Just like AKAK says. It's just starting.
The NCAA does have ethics rules of conduct. They will find something to punish Ped State with. The Freeh investigation has already hinted at that.
But, do not expect for one second that their football program is going away. And that's just the way things are.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Don't forget that should State Penn suspend football operations, it would adversely affect the entire conference through lost gate/TV revenue. There would then be a hole in the schedule for nearly every B1G team.

Just sayin'.

 

[Buckrock]

What NCAA violations? Name one.

Larry Johnson chewed tobacco during practices and games.

 

[AKAK]

Typically, No. However, I think that in a complete systemic failure like this one, there HAS to be some punishment. If no one else will do it, then I wouldn't mind the NCAA getting into it. Better them than no one....

Well, it's akin... without a specific violation, to saying, "Well, we know even if the NCAA and Dohrmann not finding anything at Ohio State that they're dirty and they should get "insert ridiculous punishment here". (not that this is exactly your point, but, gets to the point that they should get LOIC because you "just know" something is rotten at OSU. (or Miami, or USC, or wherever)

Agreed. And until this is over, I am of the opinion that they should suspend all football operations.

I am just so disgusted by the attitude of the PSU fanbase. They are outraged by this whole thing - not the behavior of their leaders that got them into this mess, but because other people around the country are so shocked and appalled by the initial abuse and the subsequent coverup.

These mutants need to learn a little bit about life without football.

Well, you're disgusted, because it's fucking disgusting... And, while I voted "no" in the poll... if some other "authority" were to see fit to shut them down, I'd probably applaud it on some level. However if said authorities fail to act, I don't see a place for the NCAA to do it without finding violations that fall within their purview.

Further, I'd prefer that it got shut down on their own, anyway, the subhuman mutants deserve to fall on their own sword and not have to have Emmert do it for them. Something along the lines that if indeed a pile of violations were to come to light, their self imposed sanctions included their own little death penalty... then let them have their own little Happy Valley Zombie Apocalypse.

 

[AKAK]

The NCAA does have ethics rules of conduct

Unless I'm wrong (and I may well be) don't most of these surround the general promotion of sportsmanship and fair play. (At least taken as a whole). If that's not the case, I'd be curious as to what else they might cover.