Should Penn State Suspend Its Football Program?

[NFBuck]

Why's that fella dressed up like Roy Orbison?

 

[DaveyBoy]

so in your opinion there is no such thing as a loss of institutional control ?

it's your opinion that the institution is only a collection of individuals ?

therefore no punishment shall be handed down that brings collateral damage ?

wow.

I disagree, it is all about the actions/attitudes/decisions of individuals. Lack of institutional control is just individuals blatantly/consistantly doing the wrong thing and/or breaking the policies/rules/laws. The football team, the student body, the faculty, the alumni, and the taxpayers of the state did nothing wrong, so why punish them? Football at Penn State is a revenue producing sport and provides scholarships tp 85 young men that otherwise may not be able to afford college. Undoubtedly the money generated from football at Penn State funds all the school's other athletic programs too; without those funds you would have to eliminate may other programs or get additional funding from the state (i.e. taxpayer dollars). You don't have to start from scratch to "fix the problem"; just replace all those individuals in "the program" that were the problem.

 

[JBaney45]

Now as for PSU. This is THE most vile and corrupt thing I've ever seen in my life. When you use the term LOIC..this has got to be the mountaintop. This isn't just some dirty football program. This isn't a [censored]ing Trans Am to come play for our school. You have an assistant coach that "retired". You have a "honor first" head coach that knew of the pedophile ways of the "retired" coach. You have a school president and an athletic director that were well aware of the situation too! What did they do? Not a [censored]ing thing! To protect the image of the university and it's football program they did nothing. In fact they did worse than nothing. They let this pedophile continue to use his knowledge of the university and it's football program to lure young kids...boys...into his twisted little game.

Not only that, but how stupid they must have been to think this would NEVER come out? We're talking about living breathing victims here. I mean these kids were going to grow into adults some day. Were these administrators so arrogant/short sighted to believe none of them would EVER talk? I'm not saying that's the reason that you step up and do something..just pointing out a detail that gives an insight to the arrogance of these administrators and how unassailable they thought Penn State football was. That these victims would never speak up against the program for fear of some kind of public* retribution MUST have been their logic here. Talk about a thug mentality..


*Happy Valley doucher

 

[AKAK]

so in your opinion there is no such thing as a loss of institutional control ?

it's your opinion that the institution is only a collection of individuals ?

therefore no punishment shall be handed down that brings collateral damage ?

wow.

(DaveyBoy, not lecturing you, but, I think this needs to be pointed out, a lot of people share your view on this.)

Ok, quick thing here.

First it's lack of institutional control... second, all LOIC is, is a statement that there were ineffective policies and procedures in place... when... AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT an NCAA VIOLATION occurred.

So, stay with me...

No NCAA violation... no LOIC.

Now as for PSU. This is THE most vile and corrupt thing I've ever seen in my life. When you use the term LOIC..this has got to be the mountaintop. This isn't just some dirty football program. This isn't a fucking Trans Am to come play for our school. You have an assistant coach that "retired". You have a "honor first" head coach that knew of the pedophile ways of the "retired" coach. You have a school president and an athletic director that were well aware of the situation too! What did they do? Not a fucking thing! To protect the image of the university and it's football program they did nothing. In fact they did worse than nothing. They let this pedophile continue to use his knowledge of the university and it's football program to lure young kids...boys...into his twisted little game.

The major difference is... giving a kid a Trans Am is a violation of NCAA rules.

Diddling kids, not reporting it, and being hypocrites (mostly) aren't. They are against the laws of Pennsylvania, etc.

Much like tradign your B1G championship ring for tats is perfectly legal in Ohio, it is an NCAA violation.

So... I don't see how, unless we can point to a specific violation of NCAA rules, you can advocate for a penalty due to lack of institutional control.

Finally, this doesn't mean I advocate (or don't advocate) the closure of the Penn State football program. The NCAA probably isn't the correct body to do it. (the Universtiy itself, the PA Legislature, whatever... fine.. )

 

[Woody1968]

(DaveyBoy, not lecturing you, but, I think this needs to be pointed out, a lot of people share your view on this.)

Ok, quick thing here.

First it's lack of institutional control... second, all LOIC is, is a statement that there were ineffective policies and procedures in place... when... AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT an NCAA VIOLATION occurred.

So, stay with me...

No NCAA violation... no LOIC.



The major difference is... giving a kid a Trans Am is a violation of NCAA rules.

Diddling kids, not reporting it, and being hypocrites (mostly) aren't. They are against the laws of Pennsylvania, etc.

Much like tradign your B1G championship ring for tats is perfectly legal in Ohio, it is an NCAA violation.

So... I don't see how, unless we can point to a specific violation of NCAA rules, you can advocate for a penalty due to lack of institutional control.

Finally, this doesn't mean I advocate (or don't advocate) the closure of the Penn State football program. The NCAA probably isn't the correct body to do it. (the Universtiy itself, the PA Legislature, whatever... fine.. )

I think most people expect the Freeh investigation to uncover potential violations, as it has already been leaked that the PSU athletic department was resistant to any reforms that would have provided better controls being in place.

 

[AKAK]

I think most people expect the Freeh investigation to uncover potential violations, as it has already been leaked that the PSU athletic department was resistant to any reforms that would have provided better controls being in place.

Better controls being in place... to prevent... what?

I'm seriously not trying to be a pain in the ass here.

There's no NCAA violation. No violation. No LOIC. No death Penalty.

Now, might the Freeh investigation turn up something. Sure. In which case we can evaluate that.

But, outside the Paterno/Triponey stuff, which isn't new... at all.... I dont' see much the NCAA would be interested in at this point in time.

 

[Zurp]

I voted no, because I haven't seen the evidence that the entire football program tried to cover up evidence. I haven't seen the evidence that Paterno tried to cover it up. I BELIEVE that he did, but not strongly enough to warrant putting the football team to death. I'd need more proof for that. And I really am not interested in it enough to go searching, myself.

I also believe that if Ohio State got a 1-year suspension from post-season for covering up tattoos, Penn State should get a couple of tons of Mark May dumped on them. Of course, if too much happens to Penn State, they may bolt for the SEC. They might fit right in.

 

[Woody1968]

Better controls being in place... to prevent... what?

I'm seriously not trying to be a pain in the ass here.

There's no NCAA violation. No violation. No LOIC. No death Penalty.

Now, might the Freeh investigation turn up something. Sure. In which case we can evaluate that.

But, outside the Paterno/Triponey stuff, which isn't new... at all.... I dont' see much the NCAA would be interested in at this point in time.

NCAA violations.
I think it boils down to the fact that virtually no one outside of crappy valley believes that no NCAA violations ocurred under Dear Leader. With the amount of effort they expended on maintaining complete secrecy, even a small violation could provide the catalyst for the NCAA to go complete and utter apeshit on their asses.

 

[AKAK]

NCAA violations.
I think it boils down to the fact that virtually no one outside of crappy valley believes that no NCAA violations ocurred under Dear Leader. With the amount of effort they expended on maintaining complete secrecy, even a small violation could provide the catalyst for the NCAA to go complete and utter ape[Mark May] on their asses.

What NCAA violations? Name one.

 

[Buckeye86]

What NCAA violations? Name one.

I think this is a valid point. Hell, kids break the law every year (DUI is a big one that happens constantly) and don't miss a single second of a single game for it.

Yet, kids who sell their personal property for a profit get suspended for 3/4 of a year because it is an NCAA violation.

Like most things the NCAA does, it makes less than zero sense and the priorities are an absolute joke, but that's the way it is under the farce that is the NCAA.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

What NCAA violations? Name one.

State Penn football players didn't pay for their own trash bags when cleaning up Beaver Stadium, for starters.

 

[Buckeye86]

State Penn football players didn't pay for their own trash bags when cleaning up Beaver Stadium, for starters.

And a coach texted them what gate to enter to clean the stadium with their ill-gotten trash bags during a quiet period.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

State Penn football players didn't pay for their own trash bags when cleaning up Beaver Stadium, for starters.

LMAO..it wouldn't surprise me. I mean when anyone at that university that was in a position of power could turn a blind eye to child rape everything else seems trivial.

 

[sepia5]

And a coach texted them what gate to enter to clean the stadium with their ill-gotten trash bags during a quiet period.

JOEPA [strike]DOESN'T[/strike] DIDN'T TEXT!!!

 

[AJHawkfan]

There's no NCAA violation. No violation. No LOIC. No death Penalty.

Can they be cited for LOILNBSHM? (Lack of Institutional Leaders Not Being Sub Human Mutants)



Seriously, can the NCAA cite LOIC without having specific rules violations?

Sort of like how a police officer can cite you with Disorderly Conduct when you're not really guilty of anything other than general douchebaggery?

I realize it would be extremely unusual for them to do this, but this is an extremely unusual situation. (Thank God...)