Scholarship Entltlement

[nwbuckeye]

I don't have time to read anymore of this thread since a page or two after the game ended. I am amazed to see posts about it being wrong to recruit "one and done" players. I don't remember anyone bitching about that last year.

As a matter of fact I did mention this last year, I love Oden and Connely as people; they both seem super nice, down to earth kids. But to me they will always be a couple of kids from Indiana that just happened to play a year at tOSU before turning pro. BUCKEYES are guys who put their heart and soul into playing for their university...give me a Mike Doss type player who sticks it out for THEIR commitment to the university before they go on to their ultimate goal of making it to the next level. I cannot identify with the one and done players and absolutely do not want college sports to turn into a semi-pro league. Chris Spielman = Buckeye, Jamar Butler = Buckeye, one and done = wasted scholarship. Do not ever forget these are supposed to be student athletes. I know that everybody that goes to college does not graduate and this of course applies to athletes on scholarship. I do not begrudge somebody turning pro a year early, especially in football. The chance of career ending injury is a very real possiblity. But name me a half dozen basketball players that have suffered that heartbreak. If they are not willing to devote more than one year of their life towards attaining the degree that some kids will never get without a scholarship, then I don't want our coaches wasting time on recruiting them.

 

[OhioSte]

As a matter of fact I did mention this last year, I love Oden and Connely as people; they both seem super nice, down to earth kids. But to me they will always be a couple of kids from Indiana that just happened to play a year at tOSU before turning pro. BUCKEYES are guys who put their heart and soul into playing for their university...give me a Mike Doss type player who sticks it out for THEIR commitment to the university before they go on to their ultimate goal of making it to the next level. I cannot identify with the one and done players and absolutely do not want college sports to turn into a semi-pro league. Chris Spielman = Buckeye, Jamar Butler = Buckeye, one and done = wasted scholarship. Do not ever forget these are supposed to be student athletes. I know that everybody that goes to college does not graduate and this of course applies to athletes on scholarship. I do not begrudge somebody turning pro a year early, especially in football. The chance of career ending injury is a very real possiblity. But name me a half dozen basketball players that have suffered that heartbreak. If they are not willing to devote more than one year of their life towards attaining the degree that some kids will never get without a scholarship, then I don't want our coaches wasting time on recruiting them.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you and think that it's crazy you expect these kids to stay all four years. They aren't Buckeyes!?!? I know one person you speak of, Conley, is planning on coming back this summer to work on his degree.

These kids are being offered millions of dollars to go pro. In your current position, if I offered you $500,000 a year to come work for me, would you take it? What about your current job? Don't you think that would put them in a predicament. Aren't there things that company expects you to complete before you leave?

How is this any different. They pay these kids in scholarships to play basketball. Someone comes along and offers more money and the kids are idiots not to take it! Could some of them develop into better players! Absolutely. Is any candidate perfect for a job, absolutely not.

What if all employers take the same approach? They aren't going to hire someone unless they stay at least X amount of years. No one out of college would get hired. The majority of kids out of college use their first job to leap frog into the next because then they have the experience.

 

[OHSportsFan]

I don't have time to read anymore of this thread since a page or two after the game ended. I am amazed to see posts about it being wrong to recruit "one and done" players. I don't remember anyone bitching about that last year.

As a matter of fact I did mention this last year, I love Oden and Connely as people; they both seem super nice, down to earth kids. But to me they will always be a couple of kids from Indiana that just happened to play a year at tOSU before turning pro. BUCKEYES are guys who put their heart and soul into playing for their university...give me a Mike Doss type player who sticks it out for THEIR commitment to the university before they go on to their ultimate goal of making it to the next level. I cannot identify with the one and done players and absolutely do not want college sports to turn into a semi-pro league. Chris Spielman = Buckeye, Jamar Butler = Buckeye, one and done = wasted scholarship. Do not ever forget these are supposed to be student athletes. I know that everybody that goes to college does not graduate and this of course applies to athletes on scholarship. I do not begrudge somebody turning pro a year early, especially in football. The chance of career ending injury is a very real possiblity. But name me a half dozen basketball players that have suffered that heartbreak. If they are not willing to devote more than one year of their life towards attaining the degree that some kids will never get without a scholarship, then I don't want our coaches wasting time on recruiting them.

wow, "THEIR commitment"?...meaning they don't satisfy you? I know Ohio State got what they wanted out of them (exposure, NCAA Title game). These are kids, everyone goes to a university in order to obtain a job, those players did that. You know they also have a commitment to themselves and their families, right? commitment to the university? ...whatever. Oden and Conley and Cook are Buckeyes to me.

"one and done= wasted scholarship"...umm okay? except for the great title run and memories they gave us (as will all the rest of the future "one and dones").

I can identify with the one and dones.

Greg Oden- He's a kid who was always going to be a #1 pick and he knew that. He had a lot of respect for Thad Matta and fell in love with Ohio State. He's very personable, but a man-child to be reckoned with on the court. He played with an injured hand for his teammates and this University.

Mike Conley- superb PG, one of the best OSU has seen. He had court vision, speed, quickness, and a desire to come up big (remember the tournament games?). He was always "Greg Oden's sidekick" but Buckeye fans came to see his importance by the end of the year. He looked like he always loved to play the game and I'd say he did plenty for the University.

Daequan Cook- Ohio kid who is now in the League coming from a tough background. He was highly-regarded and showed in spurts why. He took on a role as a 6th man and eventually became the Big Ten 6th Man of the Year. No faults with what he did for the University.

You say you have a hard time identifying with the one and dones. I recommend taking some time to step back and really see who these kids are and what they do as people and as players for The Ohio State University.

 

[nwbuckeye]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you and think that it's crazy you expect these kids to stay all four years. They aren't Buckeyes!?!? I know one person you speak of, Conley, is planning on coming back this summer to work on his degree.

These kids are being offered millions of dollars to go pro. In your current position, if I offered you $500,000 a year to come work for me, would you take it? What about your current job? Don't you think that would put them in a predicament. Aren't there things that company expects you to complete before you leave?

How is this any different. They pay these kids in scholarships to play basketball. Someone comes along and offers more money and the kids are idiots not to take it! Could some of them develop into better players! Absolutely. Is any candidate perfect for a job, absolutely not.

What if all employers take the same approach? They aren't going to hire someone unless they stay at least X amount of years. No one out of college would get hired. The majority of kids out of college use their first job to leap frog into the next because then they have the experience.

First of all these kids are not employed by tOSU, they are kids who are being offered the huge gift of getting a free education in exchange for them showcasing their athletic prowess while respresenting Ohio State.

Second of all, I said that I didn't begrudge them leaving a year early, especially in football with the very real chance of a career ending injury happening. What I do resent is somebody leaving after one year and taking a scholarship from somebody who IS interested in getting their degree and if all goes well maybe taking the next step to the pros.

Thirdly I am most fortunate to make a six figure income at the moment but the time I spent in college was the best 6 years of my life and I wouldnt trade it for any amount of money. Big money does not always = happiness, as a matter of fact some of the best years of my life were spent in college where the most I ever made was probably $10,000.

And yes I still insist that Conley et al who only don the Buckeye uniform for one year because the NBA insists they have to are just robbing a spot from a kid who is there to at least try to get an education AND represent tOSU. Do not assume that everybody is as gready as some people seem to be. I would not walk across the street to see a pro football game if there was a Buckeye football game going on next door. College sports is the epitome of what I love about competition; year after year of one-and-done players feighning interest in their university and their pursuit of bettering themselves and not their pocketbook, would forever ruin my interest in NCAA anything. Let em go to a developmental league and leave the NCAA to the true scholar-athlete.

 

[billmac91]

First of all these kids are not employed by tOSU, they are kids who are being offered the huge gift of getting a free education in exchange for them showcasing their athletic prowess while respresenting Ohio State.

Second of all, I said that I didn't begrudge them leaving a year early, especially in football with the very real chance of a career ending injury happening. What I do resent is somebody leaving after one year and taking a scholarship from somebody who IS interested in getting their degree and if all goes well maybe taking the next step to the pros.

Thirdly I am most fortunate to make a six figure income at the moment but the time I spent in college was the best 6 years of my life and I wouldnt trade it for any amount of money. Big money does not always = happiness, as a matter of fact some of the best years of my life were spent in college where the most I ever made was probably $10,000.

And yes I still insist that Conley et al who only don the Buckeye uniform for one year because the NBA insists they have to are just robbing a spot from a kid who is there to at least try to get an education AND represent tOSU. Do not assume that everybody is as gready as some people seem to be. I would not walk across the street to see a pro football game if there was a Buckeye football game going on next door. College sports is the epitome of what I love about competition; year after year of one-and-done players feighning interest in their university and their pursuit of bettering themselves and not their pocketbook, would forever ruin my interest in NCAA anything. Let em go to a developmental league and leave the NCAA to the true scholar-athlete.

How many scholarships have these "one and done" guys paid for??

 

[nwbuckeye]

wow, "THEIR commitment"?...meaning they don't satisfy you? I know Ohio State got what they wanted out of them (exposure, NCAA Title game). These are kids, everyone goes to a university in order to obtain a job, those players did that. You know they also have a commitment to themselves and their families, right? commitment to the university? ...whatever. Oden and Conley and Cook are Buckeyes to me.

"one and done= wasted scholarship"...umm okay? except for the great title run and memories they gave us (as will all the rest of the future "one and dones").

I can identify with the one and dones.

Greg Oden- He's a kid who was always going to be a #1 pick and he knew that. He had a lot of respect for Thad Matta and fell in love with Ohio State. He's very personable, but a man-child to be reckoned with on the court. He played with an injured hand for his teammates and this University.

Mike Conley- superb PG, one of the best OSU has seen. He had court vision, speed, quickness, and a desire to come up big (remember the tournament games?). He was always "Greg Oden's sidekick" but Buckeye fans came to see his importance by the end of the year. He looked like he always loved to play the game and I'd say he did plenty for the University.

Daequan Cook- Ohio kid who is now in the League coming from a tough background. He was highly-regarded and showed in spurts why. He took on a role as a 6th man and eventually became the Big Ten 6th Man of the Year. No faults with what he did for the University.

You say you have a hard time identifying with the one and dones. I recommend taking some time to step back and really see who these kids are and what they do as people and as players for The Ohio State University.

I do not disagree with anything you says above, remember that I said that these seemed to be great kids. Nobody is doubting the effort that they put into their short stay in a Buckeye uniform, but you are missing my point.

Don't take it personal like I have anything against the kids per se. What I see is people questioning the chemistry of THIS team in this and other post-game threads. Well get used to it, if year after year we have to suffer thru half the starters turning pro and leaving the team in chaos since they do not have the previous year of playing together to help them gel and find the chemistry.

And yes commitment is huge. When a player is offered a scholarship there is a two way street level of commitment. In exchange for their athletic skills, the university expects them to go to school and get their degree. Anything else is robbing the true student athlete who cannot get their degree without a scholarship from achieving their goals. It is COLLEGE sports and dont forget it.

Not everbody that applies to college gets in, and not everybody goes to college with the SOLE purpose of making huge amounts of money. Some people actually are there to further their education, and every one-and -done athlete is shutting out a place in the classroom for the student who was denied entrance and/or from taking their place as a true SCHOLAR/ATHLETE on the team.

 

[nwbuckeye]

How many scholarships have these "one and done" guys paid for??

Sure they put money into the university coffers, I can understand your point.

But how many spots on the team did they keep a real student/athlete from getting....three. It's COLLEGE athletics people, 3 kids out there were denied a scholarship because it was given to 3 guys who obviously had no intent on getting their degree.

 

[billmac91]

And yes commitment is huge. When a player is offered a scholarship there is a two way street level of commitment. In exchange for their athletic skills, the university expects them to go to school and get their degree. Anything else is robbing the true student athlete who cannot get their degree without a scholarship from achieving their goals. It is COLLEGE sports and dont forget it.

Not everbody that applies to college gets in, and not everybody goes to college with the SOLE purpose of making huge amounts of money. Some people actually are there to further their education, and every one-and -done athlete is shutting out a place in the classroom for the student who was denied entrance and/or from taking their place as a true SCHOLAR/ATHLETE on the team.

Again, how many kids do you think these "1 and done" players have put through college or will put through college? How much extra revenue did Mike Conley and Greg Oden generate last year? It's pretty cool that Ohio State has one of the largest undergrad populations in the country. I wonder how many of those undergrads have tuition being paid for by revenue generated by the athletes?? How many #20 jerseys sold last year? How much money did tOSU make for making the Final Four last year? How much of that funding went directly towards scholarship funding?? Have you thought any of this through??

The quote

"and every one-and-done athlete is shutting out a place in the classroom for the student who was denied entrance and/or from taking their place as a true SCHLOAR/ATHLETE on the team"

is just absurd. Perhaps we could pass on the "1 and done" player, become mediocre, and go back to the 5 year span where we drew half a stadium. At least then we could make sure we bring in 3 students who are serious about an education, rather than an athlete looking to make millions in the NBA.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Again, how many kids do you think these "1 and done" players have put through college or will put through college? How much extra revenue did Mike Conley and Greg Oden generate last year? It's pretty cool that Ohio State has one of the largest undergrad populations in the country. I wonder how many of those undergrads have tuition being paid for by revenue generated by the athletes?? How many #20 jerseys sold last year? How much money did tOSU make for making the Final Four last year? How much of that funding went directly towards scholarship funding?? Have you thought any of this through??

The quote is just absurd. Perhaps we could pass on the "1 and done" player, become mediocre, and go back to the 5 year span where we drew half a stadium. At least then we could make sure we bring in 3 students who are serious about an education, rather than an athlete looking to make millions in the NBA.

Of course you are assuming we will become mediocre because we pass on one-and-done. I can see quite a few top 25 teams that "settle" for lesser talent, but play as teams because they are loaded with junior and senior kids who took their scholarship seriously and stayed for their commitment.

We are right NOW a mediocre team because we decided to waste a scholarship on three kids who wouldnt stay past their freshman year. Give those 3 scholies to kids who would be sophmores this year, and we at least have a competitive team.

I dont give a shit how much money they put into the university, let em go straight to the pros if they are not interested in college. I do know they did NOT allow 3 student athletes to at least attempt to get a degree, something they may NOT have a chance to do without a scholarship.

If all you want is a great team, then pay em to be Buckeyes, dont make em go to school and be proud of your semi-pro team.

 

[jwinslow]

Such bitterness. yikes.

If they are not willing to devote more than one year of their life towards attaining the degree that some kids will never get without a scholarship, then I don't want our coaches wasting time on recruiting them.

Give me 6 figures, let alone 7... and I would have gladly left school to pursue my dream job. I would certainly be able to afford to finish up later... but can't buy opportunity.

I do not begrudge somebody turning pro a year early, especially in football.

Sorry, but this blows up your soapbox in this thread. Extremely inconsistent.

And yes commitment is huge. When a player is offered a scholarship there is a two way street level of commitment. In exchange for their athletic skills, the university expects them to go to school and get their degree. Anything else is robbing the true student athlete who cannot get their degree without a scholarship from achieving their goals. It is COLLEGE sports and dont forget it.

No, this is something made up for your own set of rules.

Technically speaking, scholarships are renewable annually. Look at the SEC.

Not everbody that applies to college gets in, and not everybody goes to college with the SOLE purpose of making huge amounts of money. Some people actually are there to further their education,

I haven't met many kids who like school. They do it for better jobs and... yep... money.

If they could get a great job out of high school with lots of money, most would jump on the chance. They can't, so they go to college first. Sound familiar?

and every one-and -done athlete is shutting out a place in the classroom for the student who was denied entrance and/or from taking their place as a true SCHOLAR/ATHLETE on the team.

Once again you're back to the make up "facts" routine.

I can see quite a few top 25 teams that "settle" for lesser talent, but play as teams because they are loaded with junior and senior kids who took their scholarship seriously and stayed for their commitment.

Please point out which ones do this consistently every year... since clearly any lapses are a sign of failure with you.

Here I thought OSU just won 3 straight big ten titles, with a great shot at one next year... and was one surprising PG departure away from competing from being in the hunt this year.

I do know they did NOT allow 3 student athletes to at least attempt to get a degree, something they may NOT have a chance to do withouth a scholarship.

No, they allowed thousands upon thousands to get a degree. This idea that Oden is keeping out a kid is laughable... there are 50,000 spots.

 

[billmac91]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because your logic absolutely baffles me.

Of course you are assuming we will become mediocre because we pass on one-and-done. I can see quite a few top 25 teams that "settle" for lesser talent, but play as teams because they are loaded with junior and senior kids who took their scholarship seriously and stayed for their commitment.

Essentially you are saying to quit recruiting the "elite" prospect because 99% of high school athletes good enough to go to the pros will do it. We didn't recruit Mike Conley as a "1 and done". It happened after an amazing year. Let's not go after any players who may develop into a lottery pick after their freshman year. I like it. Also, now that we aren't recruiting any "1 and done" players we can rescind all of those academic scholarships we awarded with the millions of dollars they generated for the school. Good news is we have replaced the 3 "1 and done" guys with 4 year players.

We are right NOW a mediocre team because we decided to waste a scholarship on three kids who wouldnt stay past their freshman year. Give those 3 scholies to kids who would be sophmores this year, and we at least have a competitive team.

I'll trade this season for a championship appearance every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. Our final 4 appearance generates more interest in the institution and draws higher caliber players to the university. I think you can correlate the increasing SAT scores and higher caliber student with the national popularity of tOSU. Higher # of applications ='s better pool to choose from. And I'd say we do have a competetive team. Right now we are last 4 in according to Bracketologist Joe Lunardi. Does a team on the "bubble" count as competitive?

I dont give a shit how much money they put into the university, let em go straight to the pros if they are not interested in college. I do know they did NOT allow 3 student athletes to at least attempt to get a degree, something they may NOT have a chance to do withouth a scholarship.

So you bang on these kids for leaving school early because they wasted a scholarship, but then don't give a shit that these athletes generate millions of dollars for the school that allows them to give out academic scholarships to underpriveledged students, elite scholars, and other student athletes? Do you really not see a flaw in that argument? Not too mention the fact that almost every single sport outside of Football and Basketball lose the school money. Every single athletic program should be thanking the basketball/football teams for sustaining their programs.

If all you want is a great team, then pay em to be Buckeyes, dont make em go to school and be proud of your semi-pro team.

Or I will support them for the time they are at tOSU abiding by the rules. Have you listened to a Greg Oden/Mike Conley interview? Two intellectual young men I have no doubt who will return to get their degree. Mike has already planned on returning.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Such bitterness. yikes.No, this is something made up for your own set of rules.

Technically speaking, scholarships are renewable annually. Look at the SEC.I haven't met many kids who like school. They do it for better jobs and... yep... money.

I feel sorry for you then, I enjoyed school and maybe when you grow up you will realize money is not the most important thing in life.

If they could get a great job out of high school with lots of money, most would jump on the chance. They can't, so they go to college first. Sound familiar?Once again you're back to the make up "facts" routine.

Once again you seemed to be fascinated by money. How about furthering your education.

Please point out which ones do this consistently every year... since clearly any lapses are a sign of failure with you.

I am watching Gonzaga play at the moment, consistantly good, a JUNIOR leaving for the pros every now and then. Ever hear of Butler.

Here I thought OSU just won 3 straight big ten titles, with a great shot at one next year... and was one surprising PG departure away from competing from being in the hunt this year.
No, they allowed thousands upon thousands to get a degree. This idea that Oden is keeping out a kid is laughable... there are 50,000 spots.

You can spin the facts any way you want fellow, but one scholarship offered to a one-and-done, is one scholarship that a true student/athlete was denied from getting. And believe it or not some kids who want to go to school are denied admission because of numbers, and anybody who is in class because they have to be is one spot wasted. And of course OSU has a history of pulling scholarships from kids once they are on the team and making progress towards their degree, so your annual renewal is so very valid.

Do they put money in the coffers, you bet they do. But so do alumni who actually graduated from college. Dont assume it all comes from athletics and don't assume the university will close down because Oden didn't come here or a Pryor like player doesn't.

You are probably one of those guys who want to pay college athletes beyond the gift of free room and board and a free education. Let's open that can of worms so we can see which university "pays" their athletes better, and while we are at it let's pay the band members too because some people come to the game just to see the half-time show, and how about the cheerleaders...... If you want pro sports, watch the NFL

 

[OCBucksFan]

One and Done players, first off, thank the NBA, but don't expect our team to be mediocre because of them. The fact is we had a chance to win a NC last year, we made it to the last round of the tourney and we lost, those players were on a huge stage and Oden, Connely, and Cook saw a chance they couldn't pass up. I don't blame them, I choose to thank them for a great run. The only downside I see of any of it, is now we have a younger team, they show signs of greatness, but a few games later they fall short, that's what a young team does.

This year we may make the tourney, we may not, but it's experience for next year either way. We aren't building a parking lot here, it's the foundation for a house. You have to understand that good years are going to come, and in the middle will be a few bad years. It happens to everyone, and so far, this hasn't been what anyone should be calling a "bad year." We lost a few we could have won, but we see what we have, we know where we need to build, and we have a great coach who's going to do what it takes to win.

There's a lot of schools who are utilizing one-and-done players and they are making the best of it, being a great athletic university, we are going to get a lot of those as well, especially with the BTN being there. Coaches will learn how to use these players to make their teams better and not leave a hangover the next year. It's a balance when you have a great player like that, you want to do him the favor of highlighting his skills for scouts, but at the same time you don't want to hurt your team too badly when they go.

Look, if you want to bitch and complain, I can't stop you, but it's counter-productive. If you are frustrated or upset then do yourself a favor and don't watch, check out the scores the next day. I read tons of other forums on a regular basis, I have seen how negativity can spread and it just ruins everyone, it's like bacteria, soon everyone slowly gets infected. We have had a great last fear years and more great years on the horizon, not to mention this year isn't even over with yet, so everyone, just keep your scarlet and grey sweatshirts on and hope for the best.

 

[billmac91]

You can spin the facts any way you want fellow, but one scholarship offered to a one-and-done, is one scholarship that a true student/athlete was denied from getting. And believe it or not some kids who want to go to school are denied admission because of numbers, and anybody who is in class because they have to be is one spot wasted. And of course OSU has a history of pulling scholarships from kids once they are on the team and making progress towards their degree, so your annual renewal is so very valid.

Do they put money in the coffers, you bet they do. But so do alumni who actually graduated from college. Dont assume it all comes from athletics and don't assume the university will close down because Oden didn't come here or a Pryor like player doesn't.

You are probably one of those guys who want to pay college athletes beyond the gift of free room and board and a free education. Let's open that can of worms so we can see which university "pays" their athletes better, and while we are at it let's pay the band members too because some people come to the game just to see the half-time show, and how about the cheerleaders...... If you want pro sports, watch the NFL

Your ignorance is astonishing. You keep harping on these "one and done" kids about taking a scholarship, but refuse to admit for every scholarship they take, they open up hundreds of scholarship opportuntities for others.

You know we could just take away the basketball team, let 12 extra "normal" students in, and then not give out the thousands of scholarships the basketball program opens up.

Does that sound like something you might be interested in?

 

[jwinslow]

You are probably one of those guys who want to pay college athletes beyond the gift of free room and board and a free education. Let's open that can of worms so we can see which university "pays" their athletes better, and while we are at it let's pay the band members too because some people come to the game just to see the half-time show, and how about the cheerleaders...... If you want pro sports, watch the NFL

Are you done? Or would you like to sling around more absurd stereotypes?

I'm still waiting for your ideal teams that can balance your lofty standards while never suffering camaraderie issues or down years. I want some specific schools.

edit: did not see your responses in the quote... please at least bold them so they are noticeable.

Never mind the fact that Matta is only in his 2nd real year of recruiting classes (bball recruiting gets locked up years in advance)... so all of his talent is going to be very young. It's much more fun to idealize "other teams" and all of their wonderful depth & upperclassmen, and criticize a coaching career still in it's infancy.

BBall by nature of small rosters is riddled with personnel turnover and inconsistency between years. Most of the fairly consistent basketball powrs are those who go after the superstar, NBA-bound talents.