Scholarship Entltlement

[jwinslow]

Butler:

04 - not ranked
05 - not ranked
06 - #21
07 - 14 currently

OSU

04 - not ranked
05 - #6
06 - #2
07 - not ranked

I like OSU's chances to beat out Butler again next year.

 

[jwinslow]

What is not awesome is the kid who cannot get his degree without an athletic scholarship, you seem to forget that this is college athletics.

If the kid can play, he'll get a scholarship at School Y. You're merely asking OSU to take that kid, so BBall power X can take Oden, and the player spots trickle back down to School Y. It's merely a matter of re-routing the bodies.

We are "mediocre" now because we are left with a team who while not as talented as last year's team are also suffering from a lack of carry over players with experience because the usual crop of sophomore who would make next years team better, have bailed on their teammates for the money and glory.

The resentment comes across so vehemently in these posts with these little snips at the end.

"HE" brings in thousands of dollars to the university is fine and good, "THEY" that brought in money to the university while using their scholarship as intended is better.

Matta's job is to win ballgames. As for your money comparison, Oden brings in millions... Drew Naymick brings in thousands.

 

[billmac91]

seriously, in our down year we are a bubble team.

How many programs wish their down year left them on the bubble?

And I still can't wrap my head around busting on a kid who leaves before he graduates for taking a scholarship from another student, when in actuality, he opens up thousands of opportunities.

Trade away Greg Oden for how many students and how many millions of dollars?

 

[jwinslow]

If you really want to make this about numbers and giving kids a shot at a degree, players departing early create more opportunities for athletic scholarships.

PJ Hill never gets a shot at a school like Ohio State without Conley's departure.

 

[nwbuckeye]

How exactly is Matta supposed to have great juniors & seniors on roster this year? Your expectations are completely unfair.

With Matta's current recruiting style, we'll have upperclassmen in Lighty, Diebler, Lauderdale and maybe Turner all from these first two classes you are lamenting. Conley was intended to be another one, but shot up faster than anyone could imagine, including his own family.

In 2 years, those guys will be lining up alongside 1 and dones, and OSU will no longer have to resort to late juco offers to fill holes (Hunter, Hill).

The fact is we are in the infancy of Matta's run here at OSU, so his upperclassmen are leftovers from Obie's regime and a juco transfer.
Right, you're not making reckless, errant, wide-sweeping generalizations about my views on life and how wrong they are or anything... nothing personal there.
The degree will be there 2-3 years from now too. But it doesn't serve your preferences and interests, so you view that as poor form.

How did I make any wide-sweeping generalizations about YOUR views, I dont recall saying "JWINSLOW" I dont agree with your views on life. What I did say is that I dont agree with the money-is-everything attitude with todays athlete. If that is YOUR view, then I do disagree with that.

You said I contradicted myself with football players leaving early, while I specifically said leaving after their junior year; a far cry from kids leaving after one year in basketball. A sport by the way where the chances of suffering a career ending injury is faily minimal, but the chance is there nonetheless of course.

And my whole jumping into the end of the moaning about the lack of chemistry on this team lamentions going on in the previous thread, was my MAIN point is that if we are gonna recruit one-and-done athletes then we are gonna have to expect a team in shambles the next year.

And finally I believe there is no contesting that giving a scholarship to a kid who has no intent on using it to get to the goal of the SCHOLARSHIP which is of course a DEGREE, is a waste of that scholarship. Nobody can predict if a kid is gonna turn pro early so it is not a perfect system. But to give it to somebody who has no intent on using it for the intended purpose is a shame, if they don't want it let em play as a walk on.

And yes there are a finite number of students allowed into tOSU just like there is a finite number of scholies. How would you feel if your kid was denied entrance into a classroom taken up by somebody whose ONLY goal was to get meet the NBA requirement for attending one year of college.

 

[jwinslow]

How did I make any wide-sweeping generalizations about YOUR views, I dont recall saying "JWINSLOW" I dont agree with your views on life.

I quoted and responded to each directly. Pretty hard to miss.

But since you're pleading ignorance, here's what you've determined about me thus far:

I feel sorry for you then, I enjoyed school and maybe when you grow up you will realize money is not the most important thing in life.

Talking down to me as a child, with a scolding that couldn't be more offbase.

Once again you seemed to be fascinated by money. How about furthering your education.

I was commenting on the average student, but you make a generalization about me instead.

Then there's this ridiculous pile of assumption and hyperbole

You are probably one of those guys who want to pay college athletes beyond the gift of free room and board and a free education. Let's open that can of worms so we can see which university "pays" their athletes better, and while we are at it let's pay the band members too because some people come to the game just to see the half-time show, and how about the cheerleaders...... If you want pro sports, watch the NFL

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

We are "mediocre" now because we are left with a team who while not as talented as last year's team are also suffering from a lack of carry over players with experience because the usual crop of sophomore who would make next years team better, have bailed on their teammates for the money and glory.

You seem quite new to college athletics, so allow me to introduce you to a general principle:

College athletics is a means to an end. The end is to play professionally. Take a survey of the players on the football and men's basketball team, and I would bet a lot of money that every single one dreams of playing professionally one day. So when that end becomes available, and becomes available with millions of dollars attached, your going to say they bailed on their teammates?

Ohio State offered them a scholarship, and they accepted it. They did not enter into an agreement that they would stay 4 years and complete a degree. They chose Ohio State for whatever reasons they did, and we were absolutely elated to have them. They represented the university tremendously well, both on and off the court. They owe you absolutely nothing. They owe none of us anything at all. Stop acting like they do.

You argue they take a scholarship away from a student-athlete who would stay 4 years and get a degree. A few things here- one, they really only delay the process a year, since they only take up a scholarship for a year. The next year, that scholarship is available again. Two, if we were to only recruit players who would stay for four years, I think you would continue to see the same level of mediocrity that we now exhibit. Take KK away from this team and what do you have? 15-12. They could have more comraderie in the three years, sure, but they could also hate each others guts and we would still have the same lower talent level.

You bring up Florida as the shining example of how to run a program, and it would be great if we could do that. But Oden and possibly Cook wouldn't have come to college had the 1 year rule not been in effect. Your saying you would have rather signed some lower 4 star player than Greg Oden because he may stay for four years? That makes sense. None of Florida's players were good enough to leave after their freshman years, and only Noah would have been a lottery pick after the sophomore year. Compare that to Oden surefire 1 and Conley at 4, not nearly the same.

Lastly, comparing Oden and Conley to Doss and Hawk isn't apples to oranges. Its apples to hamburgers. First, Doss and Hawk had to stay for at least 3 years. Oden and Conley only had to stay for one. What would build longer allegiances, one year or three years? Hmmm, I wonder. Secondly, both Hawk and Doss grew up huge Buckeye fans. Oden and Conley, not at all.

I would GLADLY continue to recruit one-and-done players and make a national title appearance every 2 or even 3 years if the only negative was that the years in between were "down years" like this one because our team struggles with comraderie. You wouldn't have the best interests of The Ohio State University at heart if you thought otherwise.

So yeah, all in all, I see your point, to even mention the word Buckeye in the same sentence with guys like Cook, Conley, and Oden, who led us to the NCAA championship game, is the highest possible insult to guys like Hawk and Doss, who similarly led us to NCAA championship games.

 

[jwinslow]

BTW, you still haven't addressed how Matta's recruiting is supposed to supply upperclassmen depth when his real recruiting classes are only in their second year. There is only one 1-n-done in the current freshman class.

 

[methomps]

How did I make any wide-sweeping generalizations about YOUR views, I dont recall saying "JWINSLOW" I dont agree with your views on life. What I did say is that I dont agree with the money-is-everything attitude with todays athlete. If that is YOUR view, then I do disagree with that.

You said I contradicted myself with football players leaving early, while I specifically said leaving after their junior year; a far cry from kids leaving after one year in basketball. A sport by the way where the chances of suffering a career ending injury is faily minimal, but the chance is there nonetheless of course.

And my whole jumping into the end of the moaning about the lack of chemistry on this team lamentions going on in the previous thread, was my MAIN point is that if we are gonna recruit one-and-done athletes then we are gonna have to expect a team in shambles the next year.

And finally I believe there is no contesting that giving a scholarship to a kid who has no intent on using it to get to the goal of the SCHOLARSHIP which is of course a DEGREE, is a waste of that scholarship. Nobody can predict if a kid is gonna turn pro early so it is not a perfect system. But to give it to somebody who has no intent on using it for the intended purpose is a shame, if they don't want it let em play as a walk on.

And yes there are a finite number of students allowed into tOSU just like there is a finite number of scholies. How would you feel if your kid was denied entrance into a classroom taken up by somebody whose ONLY goal was to get meet the NBA requirement for attending one year of college.

I'm pretty sure no school has ever said, "Hey, regular Joe Student. We'd love to admit you, but we can't because we just got a verbal from a 6'9" shot blocker."

 

[nwbuckeye]

If the kid can play, he'll get a scholarship at School Y. You're merely asking OSU to take that kid, so BBall power X can take Oden, and the player spots trickle back down to School Y. It's merely a matter of re-routing the bodies.The resentment comes across so vehemently in these posts with these little snips at the end.Matta's job is to win ballgames. As for your money comparison, Oden brings in millions... Drew Naymick brings in thousands.

Well Dr Ruth, my resentment comes solely from the fact that I do not wish college athletics to become NFL/NBA/MBL junior. Just because I do not agree with you no need to get snippy. I assume you love OUR team as much as I do, and as stated previously the kids are great guys, it is the concept that i so vehemently oppose. I grew up on the NFL and MLB but am horrified at what it has degraded into. At this point I would not cross the street for a NFL game and money and me first mentality has ruined it for me.

While both of us revel in the odd NC title or just the chance to play for one, some of disagree on the ends to the means. Give me a team full of kids who take their gift of a scholarship seriously and not for granted, who wants to be in college and all that it offers over the hired gun 1-and-done types who may bring excitement but leave me with a hollow feeling.

 

[billmac91]

I'm pretty sure no school has ever said, "Hey, regular Joe Student. We'd love to admit you, but we can't because we just got a verbal from a 6'9" shot blocker."

Not only that, but without "Joe, the 6-11 shot blocker" that borderline student wouldn't even have a chance anyways. Basketball and football programs open more opportunity to students, not take away.

This is a ridiculous argument on just about every point.

 

[jwinslow]

And my whole jumping into the end of the moaning about the lack of chemistry on this team lamentions going on in the previous thread, was my MAIN point is that if we are gonna recruit one-and-done athletes then we are gonna have to expect a team in shambles the next year.

Talk about jumping off the ledges... we don't have to expect shambles any time a player or two depart. I expect a rollercoaster sport like basketball to have down years occasionally, whether they be filled with 4 year bookworms or future nba stars.

BTW, Florida is "in shambles" according to your hyperbolic measuring stick. Every team goes through down years, no matter how they recruit.

How would you feel if your kid was denied entrance into a classroom taken up by somebody whose ONLY goal was to get meet the NBA requirement for attending one year of college.

My kid is not in the running for that athletic scholarship. His spot was taken up by the other 12,000 students who got in. If you're going to blame anyone, blame holbrook & OSU for improving the school and it's entrance requirements... as acceptance is no longer expected.

But to answer your unrealistic hypothetical: I'd think he should have worked harder in school, both on his gpa, resume (& activities) & test scores.

 

[jwinslow]

Give me a team full of kids who take their gift of a scholarship seriously and not for granted, who wants to be in college and all that it offers over the hired gun 1-and-done types who may bring excitement but leave me with a hollow feeling.

Does stereotyping people, and negatively at that, make you feel better somehow? Whose to say Greg Oden doesn't love college? Butler nearly left this past offseason... I guess he didn't take his gift seriously

What about the gift of a family's support? Can't a kid take his scholarship seriously, but also take his dreams & finances seriously as well? What about not taking his family's endless time, emotional and vocational support for granted? I always love hearing players genuine excitement when they can help their parents retire to a better life... after years of hard work to get their athletic son to where he is currently.

ALL of these kids are hired guns. They are given money via scholarship (& stipends) to come win ball games for Ohio State. Some are here for a year or two (and flunk out, transfer, get hurt, or go to the NBA). Some are here for 4 years. While they are here, they pursue college degrees.

ALL of these kids dream of playing in the NBA (at least at OSU). Most of those who stick around do so because they were not afforded the realistic opportunity to turn pro.

ALL of these kids are different. To presume the mindset and impact (both in scoring and in the lockerroom) of any of these players is presumptious and based on assumptions you're projecting upon them.

 

[methomps]

Well Dr Ruth, my resentment comes solely from the fact that I do not wish college athletics to become NFL/NBA/MBL junior. Just because I do not agree with you no need to get snippy. I assume you love OUR team as much as I do, and as stated previously the kids are great guys, it is the concept that i so vehemently oppose. I grew up on the NFL and MLB but am horrified at what it has degraded into. At this point I would not cross the street for a NFL game and money and me first mentality has ruined it for me.

While both of us revel in the odd NC title or just the chance to play for one, some of disagree on the ends to the means. Give me a team full of kids who take their gift of a scholarship seriously and not for granted, who wants to be in college and all that it offers over the hired gun 1-and-done types who may bring excitement but leave me with a hollow feeling.

May I suggest adopting Navy as your new team?

 

[Mike80]

Sure they put money into the university coffers, I can understand your point.

But how many spots on the team did they keep a real student/athlete from getting....three. It's COLLEGE athletics people, 3 kids out there were denied a scholarship because it was given to 3 guys who obviously had no intent on getting their degree.

"A real student/athlete"?



Just stop seriously......