Scholarship Entltlement

[nwbuckeye]

Such bitterness. yikes.
Give me 6 figures, let alone 7... and I would have gladly left school to pursue my dream job. I would certainly be able to afford to finish up later... but can't buy opportunity.Sorry, but this blows up your soapbox in this thread. Extremely inconsistent.No, this is something made up for your own set of rules.

Technically speaking, scholarships are renewable annually. Look at the SEC.I haven't met many kids who like school. They do it for better jobs and... yep... money.

If they could get a great job out of high school with lots of money, most would jump on the chance. They can't, so they go to college first. Sound familiar?Once again you're back to the make up "facts" routine.
Please point out which ones do this consistently every year... since clearly any lapses are a sign of failure with you.

Here I thought OSU just won 3 straight big ten titles, with a great shot at one next year... and was one surprising PG departure away from competing from being in the hunt this year.
No, they allowed thousands upon thousands to get a degree. This idea that Oden is keeping out a kid is laughable... there are 50,000 spots.

With a little math skills here I would say that leaving after your freshman season would be leaving THREE years early. Hence the one-and-done theme here. I am not bitching about Ghoulston leaving after his junior year, the threat of a career ending injury is very real in football. Not so much true of the basketball genre and my main point here is not to degrade two very fine young men in Conely and Oden. My point is the post-game threads of how this years team lacks cohesiveness and unity. Well that comes from playing together as a team for 3-4 years, something you will never get with a class full of kids who are using the college experience for nothing more than a chance at the pros. We can agree to disagree then. Give me a team full of Spielmans and Butlers and Mike Doss types who honor their gift of a scholarship and you can have your glory year of one-and-done kids who cannot wait another year or two make their millions. Money is everything, or so it seems.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

First of all these kids are not employed by tOSU, they are kids who are being offered the huge gift of getting a free education in exchange for them showcasing their athletic prowess while respresenting Ohio State.

I think they gave us a "huge gift" back by nearly winning us our first NC in 46 years (and only second NC all-time).

But how many spots on the team did they keep a real student/athlete from getting....three. It's COLLEGE athletics people, 3 kids out there were denied a scholarship because it was given to 3 guys who obviously had no intent on getting their degree.

You don't think Matta knew when he offered those kids that at least two if not all three were going to bail if not after one year, two years at the latest? Right now all we have on the team are "true student athletes", and to put it bluntly, compared to last year's team they flat out aren't very good. Now, don't misinterpret that as meaning I don't appreciate the effort our current kids are putting out, but they're not in the same solar system as last year's team.

Give me world-class one-and-done ballers every year. I don't care if we have a complete turnover of players every year...if that's what it takes to challenge for, and win, a national title nowadays, then so be it.

 

[OCBucksFan]

nwbuckeye, you remind me of the goobacks episode of southpark "they took our yobs!"

 

[jwinslow]

I feel sorry for you then, I enjoyed school and maybe when you grow up you will realize money is not the most important thing in life.

Wonderful, more scolding I realize money is not everything in life... I'm pursuing a career I love (sports photography) with much less money than I could earn in graphic design, which I may return to full time later in life. Do try and respond to what I actually say, and not what stereotype you'd like to place me in. It's not going very well for you.

Kids generally do not enjoy schoolwork. Some find their passion and truly embrace it, but most treat it as a means to an end.

You may not like it, but it's the reality.

If they could get a great job out of high school with lots of money, most would jump on the chance. They can't, so they go to college first. Sound familiar?Once again you're back to the make up "facts" routine.

Once again you seemed to be fascinated by money. How about furthering your education.

Um no. If I went back to school to study sports photography as a second major, but Sports Illustrated wanted to pay me (just enough to pay bills and a mortgage really) to shoot for them full-time on a 3 year contract... I would leap at that opportunity. If that dream job also comes with financial security, that makes it a remarkable opportunity.

What is the harm in pursuing a dream, being compensated well, and then returning to school?

Won't that open up an opportunity for a "more deserving" student while I'm gone?

I am watching Gonzaga play at the moment, consistantly good, a JUNIOR leaving for the pros every now and then. Ever hear of Butler.

No, I've never heard of butler You got a power conference school for me?

 

[billmac91]

You can't win this argument. He complains about the players coming in using a scholarship for a year and leaving but then doesn't give them credit for opening up thousands of opportunities for other students.

He wants it both ways, and it isn't realistic.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Your ignorance is astonishing. You keep harping on these "one and done" kids about taking a scholarship, but refuse to admit for every scholarship they take, they open up hundreds of scholarship opportuntities for others.

You know we could just take away the basketball team, let 12 extra "normal" students in, and then not give out the thousands of scholarships the basketball program opens up.

Does that sound like something you might be interested in?

So when the rule, rather than the exception, was for a STUDENT athlete to stay the whole four years for the scholarship they were offered, Ohio State was just barely making it along and was really close to shutting the doors of higher education. Give me a break. Does the one-and-done player bring excitement and money to the university, without a doubt. But by the same token, so do players who stay the full four years of their eligibility. I suppose nobody bought AJ Hawk jerseys or came to watch him play football year after year, not just ONE year. If you want a player on your team for one year, then fine welcome to the free-agent, I switch my loyalty at the drop of the hat NFL/NBA semi-pro NCAA.

 

[jwinslow]

With a little math skills here I would say that leaving after your freshman season would be leaving THREE years early. Hence the one-and-done theme here. I am not bitching about Ghoulston leaving after his junior year, the threat of a career ending injury is very real in football. Not so much true of the basketball genre and my main point here is not to degrade two very fine young men in Conely and Oden.

Last I checked Greg Oden suffered back to back serious injuries... the latest of which some players never fully recover from.

Either way, players can take out insurance policies for injuries in both sports.

My point is the post-game threads of how this years team lacks cohesiveness and unity. Well that comes from playing together as a team for 3-4 years, something you will never get with a class full of kids who are using the college experience for nothing more than a chance at the pros.

I saw some pretty remarkable teamwork last year, a lot coming from the underclassmen. Michigan was the epitome of players sticking together for 3-4 years, but they were anything but united this season in football.

Give me a team full of Spielmans and Butlers and Mike Doss types who honor their gift of a scholarship and you can have your glory year of one-and-done kids who cannot wait another year or two make their millions. Money is everything, or so it seems.

Stereotypes are everything to you, or so it seems. Do you really have to degrade and package everything I say into your box for me?

You can have 5 butlers on this team, and the camaraderie would still be suffering... that's not a guess, but from those close to the program. We'd finally have justification for our love for settling on the perimeter, tho.

The seniors are as much to blame for the lack of cohesion and direction in the locker room.

 

[OCBucksFan]

With a little math skills here I would say that leaving after your freshman season would be leaving THREE years early. Hence the one-and-done theme here. I am not bitching about Ghoulston leaving after his junior year, the threat of a career ending injury is very real in football. Not so much true of the basketball genre and my main point here is not to degrade two very fine young men in Conely and Oden. My point is the post-game threads of how this years team lacks cohesiveness and unity. Well that comes from playing together as a team for 3-4 years, something you will never get with a class full of kids who are using the college experience for nothing more than a chance at the pros. We can agree to disagree then. Give me a team full of Spielmans and Butlers and Mike Doss types who honor their gift of a scholarship and you can have your glory year of one-and-done kids who cannot wait another year or two make their millions. Money is everything, or so it seems.

You are upset that this years team isn't consistent, so your solution is to not take top recruits because they would leave early, but your upset that this years team isn't consistent, but we should not take top recruits because they would leave early....

Your logic baffles me, enjoy arguing in circles, I am going to hit my head with something hard to try and wipe the memory of this thread away.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

WTF dude is this serious...

Let me get one thing straight you say a one and done is taking a spot for one kid to get into college...They allow 50,000 in...And the spot would be taken by another bball player anyway so that goes out the window...

Now the question is can you win with 4 year players...Well of course you can...But then the question is how do you compete on a regular basis with the teams that are brining in the one and dones along with 4 year guys...

That is what you shoot for...Recruit the best of the best and let it play out...As long as you can continue to recruit at a high level year and year out and fill the holes where they are good things will come...

This year is a struggle mainly due to losing Conley who was not a one and done recruit...He turned himself into a top 5 pick during the season and then chased his dream...Can't fault a kid for chasing a dream...

Yeah it sucks to watch this team struggle, but if you tell me that we don't bring in Oden, Conley, and Cook last year and we bring in a couple 4 year guys we struggle last year and this year...No NC appearance and next year we wouldnt be sniffing that either as Mullens and Buford are those type of players too...Also we wouldn't have KK this year for the reason that many had him as a one and done before this year...

Butler and Gonzaga recruit the kids they do because they can't really recruit the top level kids, but if they had the chance they would...Just like Zaga took Austin Daye last year who could possibly bolt after his freshmen season this year or next year after his sophomore season...

It is the nature of the game anymore...Obrien showed that he couldn't get it done with not recruiting those types and Matta has shown that he can...

 

[billmac91]

So when the rule, rather than the exception, was for a STUDENT athlete to stay the whole four years for the scholarship they were offered, Ohio State was just barely making it along and was really close to shutting the doors of higher education. Give me a break. Does the one-and-done player bring excitement and money to the university, without a doubt. But by the same token, so do players who stay the full four years of their eligibility. I suppose nobody bought A.J. Hawk jerseys or came to watch him play football year after year, not just ONE year. If you want a player on your team for one year, then fine welcome to the free-agent, I switch my loyalty at the drop of the hat NFL/NBA semi-pro NCAA.

Did you see the crowds during the last few years of O'Brien's tenure? How about the last few years of Randy Ayers regime? I don't have the facts to back it up, but I'd imagine more scholarship money can be awarded when there is more money to spend.

So in summary, was enrollement hurting when tOSU basketball was actually "mediocre"? No, it wasn't. Was it 55,000 undergrads, and one of the higher caliber Big 10 institutions? No.

And basketball and football are apples to oranges. Football players HAVE to stay for at least 3 years. And it's Gholston, not Ghoulston.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Wonderful, more scolding I realize money is not everything in life... I'm pursuing a career I love (sports photography) with much less money than I could earn in graphic design, which I may return to full time later in life. Do try and respond to what I actually say, and not what stereotype you'd like to place me in. It's not going very well for you.

Kids generally do not enjoy schoolwork. Some find their passion and truly embrace it, but most treat it as a means to an end.

You may not like it, but it's the reality.Um no. If I went back to school to study sports photography as a second major, but Sports Illustrated wanted to pay me (just enough to pay bills and a mortgage really) to shoot for them full-time on a 3 year contract... I would leap at that opportunity. If that dream job also comes with financial security, that makes it a remarkable opportunity.

What is the harm in pursuing a dream, being compensated well, and then returning to school?

Won't that open up an opportunity for a "more deserving" student while I'm gone? No, I've never heard of butler You got a power conference school for me?

The question was give me an example of a school that recruits lesser talent and is still successful. Both of the teams I mentioned (and there are more), are currently ranked above us and many other teams because they recruit kids who are dedicated to staying in college. By the time they are juniors and seniors they are a good TEAM. We lost to Florida last year because their sophomores/juniors/seniors were better than our freshman wonder kids. Two paths to the same goal. I want to see OUR Buckeyes do just as well as the next fan. I would prefer to see kids recruited that develop into a team over the years, one that can challenge for the NC. You all seem to prefer the miracle run of the one-and-dones who leave the cubbard bare for the next year. Either way I guess you are stuck with the possible down year while we re-group. I just like our chances of being competative while rotating in years of kids progressing through their junior and senior years, rather than pinning your hopes on a freshman class that more than likely is not gonna make it all the way despite their gifted talents.

And stop taking it so personal, like I am bashing the KIDS personally. The money will be there two or three years from now, especially for the basketball players. HOW FIRM THY FRIENDSHIP...does that ring a bell. Stay in school and enjoy the experience. TG suffered through a horrendous year with the Dolphins, but he has the money so I suppose not once did he regret leaving for the pros early. And Greg Oden probably doesn't wish just once that he had stayed for his soph or jr year. It is collegiate sports and Buckeye football puts the fans in the stands and the money in the coffers. The exception once in a decade player brings in some extra excitment, but the doors arent gonna close and we can still be more than competative with kids who are commited to the college experience.

 

[jwinslow]

How exactly is Matta supposed to have great juniors & seniors on roster this year? Your expectations are completely unfair.

With Matta's current recruiting style, we'll have upperclassmen in Lighty, Diebler, Lauderdale and maybe Turner all from these first two classes you are lamenting. Conley was intended to be another one, but shot up faster than anyone could imagine, including his own family.

In 2 years, those guys will be lining up alongside 1 and dones, and OSU will no longer have to resort to late juco offers to fill holes (Hunter, Hill).

The fact is we are in the infancy of Matta's run here at OSU, so his upperclassmen are leftovers from Obie's regime and a juco transfer.

And stop taking it so personal,

Right, you're not making reckless, errant, wide-sweeping generalizations about my views on life and how wrong they are or anything... nothing personal there.

The money will be there two or three years from now, especially for the basketball players.

The degree will be there 2-3 years from now too. But it doesn't serve your preferences and interests, so you view that as poor form.

 

[billmac91]

The question was give me an example of a school that recruits lesser talent and is still successful. Both of the teams I mentioned (and there are more), are currently ranked above us and many other teams because they recruit kids who are dedicated to staying in college. By the time they are juniors and seniors they are a good TEAM. We lost to Florida last year because their sophomores/juniors/seniors were better than our freshman wonder kids. Two paths to the same goal. I want to see OUR Buckeyes do just as well as the next fan. I would prefer to see kids recruited that develop into a team over the years, one that can challenge for the NC. You all seem to prefer the miracle run of the one-and-dones who leave the cubbard bare for the next year. Either way I guess you are stuck with the possible down year while we re-group. I just like our chances of being competative while rotating in years of kids progressing through their junior and senior years, rather than pinning your hopes on a freshman class that more than likely is not gonna make it all the way despite their gifted talents.

And stop taking it so personal, like I am bashing the KIDS personally. The money will be there two or three years from now, especially for the basketball players. HOW FIRM THY FRIENDSHIP...does that ring a bell. Stay in school and enjoy the experience. TG suffered through a horrendous year with the Dolphins, but he has the money so I suppose not once did he regret leaving for the pros early. And Greg Oden probably doesn't wish just once that he had stayed for his soph or jr year. It is collegiate sports and Buckeye football puts the fans in the stands and the money in the coffers. The exception once in a decade player brings in some extra excitment, but the doors arent gonna close and we can still be more than competative with kids who are commited to the college experience.

I'm sure Greg has no regrets leaving early, as it would have cost him millions of dollars. Greg is a great example of why you leave when you are assured of being a first rounder, especially the #1 pick. He doesn't declare, and now every GM backs off because of his injury issues, especially coming off micro-fracture surgery. Not to mention, he doesn't even know how it happened. Not exactly a rininging endoresment for longevity.

And no, the doors won't close if the basketball/football teams struggle. A good example are the sub .500 teams of Randy Ayers and mediocre teams of Jim O'Brien. The doors didn't close, but the seats were definately quite empty. I wonder how much that cost the research budget, and additional academic scholarship budget?

 

[methomps]

The one-and-done kids only take up a scholarship for that year. Its not like nobody else can use that scholarship the next year.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Did you see the crowds during the last few years of O'Brien's tenure? How about the last few years of Randy Ayers regime? I don't have the facts to back it up, but I'd imagine more scholarship money can be awarded when there is more money to spend.

So in summary, was enrollement hurting when tOSU basketball was actually "mediocre"? No, it wasn't. Was it 55,000 undergrads, and one of the higher caliber Big 10 institutions? No.

And basketball and football are apples to oranges. Football players HAVE to stay for at least 3 years. And it's Gholston, not Ghoulston.

Lets not get personel here bud, like you have never made a typo in your life.

We are "mediocre" now because we are left with a team who while not as talented as last year's team are also suffering from a lack of carry over players with experience because the usual crop of sophomore who would make next years team better, have bailed on their teammates for the money and glory.

And I have never disputed that the exception player can bring extra money into the university. What is a fact is that with a set number of scholies available offering one to somebody who has no intent on using it to get a degree, is a waste of a scholarship. If the one-and-dones want to go back and get their degree after the fact, then that is awesome. What is not awesome is the kid who cannot get his degree without an athletic scholarship, you seem to forget that this is college athletics. Not every player offered ends up graduating and you can view that as a wasted scholarship too I suppose, but like the average student population not everybody that starts school finishes it. But to give one to somebody who from the get-go is not going to use it for the set purpose is a crime.

"HE" brings in thousands of dollars to the university is fine and good, "THEY" that brought in money to the university while using their scholarship as intended is better.