Rich Rodriguez (official thread of last laughs)

[sandgk]

RRod put a spell on everyone.

We must give a Fark about this!!

 

[Mike80]

The question is are they using the term shredded to mean he actually destroyed a ton of physical files? Or is it just dumbed down to mean I took a directory on a server and dragged it into the recycle bin? WVU is a pretty big university, humor aside, shouldn't they have all of this stuff stored via document imaging or something of that nature? Who the hell goes "ok, you keep all of the important stuff in your desk, it's safe there." According to the report there's a lot of stuff missing, stuff that doesn't even have to do with football, how the hell does that happen?

Well you'd think they would have some sort of backup scheme to avoid such things (academic tampering as well come to think of it)....

The part I don't understand is shouldn't the compliance office have copies????

 

[sandgk]

Well you'd think they would have some sort of backup scheme to avoid such things (academic tampering as well come to think of it)....

The part I don't understand is shouldn't the compliance office have copies????

Key to academic tampering charges (or the defense thereof) would be good grade and attendance records per WVU spokesperson Amy Neil:

But one thing they are sure of is that the academic records of the players are secure.
University spokeswoman Amy Neil says the WVU Office of Admissions and Records maintains grade and attendance records in a separate location.

 

[Mike80]

Key to academic tampering charges (or the defense thereof) would be good grade and attendance records per WVU spokesperson Amy Neil:

That's not a surprise. I was talking more in general. If you think something was tampered with, just restore it and take a look......

 

[billmac91]

So, um, Filegate.

I know you guys prefer to believe the worst about RR, but let's think for a minute at what you have to accept in order to believe that RR was in fact shredding stuff he shouldn't have:

Supposedly he was seen by "multiple people" shoving things into a shredder. And not one of them stopped in and said, "Hey, uh, Coach, um, whadya think you're doing?" WVU claims he destroyed seven years' worth of files. Recruting data, contact info, booster info, summer camps, community service, academic records. That would take hours to shred. Supposedly RR shredded all this stuff and multiple people saw him and nobody cared?

RR cleaned out his office Dec. 18 (that's per the Detroit News.) Just after returning from the Fiesta Bowl is when WVU discovered that files that were supposed to be there, weren't. So, uh, nobody stepped into the office between the 18th and January 5th or so? None of the staff went to see if he left anything behind that would be helpful for bowl game preps? The office was closed and locked the whole time? Nobody so much as stored a spare box in it? Either that or RR went back sometime after Dec. 18, and given that he's persona non grata in Morgantown, I'd say he didn't.

Ummmmm, yeah....it's entirely possible.

Having worked in FSU's basketball offices it would be entirely possible. Very few people come through unless they are dropping off packages, coming in to see coaches, or just working there in general. It's not like the coaches offices are a swinging gate.

With that in mind, the only people at the office to stop him would be assistant coaches who were likely going to Michigan with him, and coaches secretaries. Secretaries aren't going to stop him from entering his office, and they certainly aren't going to stop him from shredding documents. If Leonard Hamilton were on his way out of FSU, he'd ask his secretary to help and she'd likely oblige not realizing what was going on.

Regarding the documnets on players, contact information, disciplanary problems, etc., at FSU, they had a large filing cabinet that looked like a clothes drawer. It had 5 or 6 drawers that slid out, just like a clothes drawer. Inside those drawers they kept files of every player they contacted, researched on the internet, got mail from, sent mail to, etc. It was sorted by last name. Obviously basketball is a different beast, as you have 12-13 players as opposed to 85 scholarship players, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar filing method.

So do I think Rich Rod could spend 3, 8, 12, 16 hous shredding documents? Absolutely, no doubt in my mind.

Is West Virginia stupid for not having security/representatives at the offices to over-see his departure. Absolutely.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and West Virginia's stupidity doesn't give anyone the right to destroy public records.

Aside from those comments though, I think it's more likely Rodriguez threw stuff he didn't deem important away, rather than hiding information and being spiteful. He really seems like the type of guy who'd pitch anything in his office away he didn't think he'd need without giving it any type of thought. I think his perception of being a dumb-luck type of guy, is a great defense in the event it's proven true he was destroying public documents.

Judge: "DRod, why did you destroy public documents?"

DRod: "I'm a native West Virginian. I didn't know any better. By the way, if you've put away any convicted felons that look athletic, please send them my way. Thanks."

 

[HailToMichigan]

Ummmmm, yeah....it's entirely possible.

Having worked in FSU's basketball offices it would be entirely possible. Very few people come through unless they are dropping off packages, coming in to see coaches, or just working there in general. It's not like the coaches offices are a swinging gate.

With that in mind, the only people at the office to stop him would be assistant coaches who were likely going to Michigan with him, and coaches secretaries. Secretaries aren't going to stop him from entering his office, and they certainly aren't going to stop him from shredding documents. If Leonard Hamilton were on his way out of FSU, he'd ask his secretary to help and she'd likely oblige not realizing what was going on.

Regarding the documnets on players, contact information, disciplanary problems, etc., at FSU, they had a large filing cabinet that looked like a clothes drawer. It had 5 or 6 drawers that slid out, just like a clothes drawer. Inside those drawers they kept files of every player they contacted, researched on the internet, got mail from, sent mail to, etc. It was sorted by last name. Obviously basketball is a different beast, as you have 12-13 players as opposed to 85 scholarship players, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar filing method.

So do I think Rich Rod could spend 3, 8, 12, 16 hous shredding documents? Absolutely, no doubt in my mind.

Is West Virginia stupid for not having security/representatives at the offices to over-see his departure. Absolutely.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and West Virginia's stupidity doesn't give anyone the right to destroy public records.

I'm probably having too much fun arguing this stuff and I should stop. But for the sake of argument, this is the same facility that the entire West Virginia football team was hanging around on Sunday the 16th which should have made it easy for Rodriguez to call a player meeting prior to calling Terrelle Pryor, right? Two days later, a Tuesday, and it's a ghost town, and nobody who is there mentions a single word to anyone in charge that Coach Rodriguez is here cleaning out his office and oh by the way he's stuffing entire file cabinets into a shredder?

And - again - nobody discovered this until three weeks after the fact?

I doubt much will come of this. Assuming even the absolute worst, that RR purposely took, shredded, or otherwise stole very important (and confidential - not public) documents that belonged to the school (as the school claims), then WVU is guilty of more than galactic stupidity, they're guilty of criminal negligence in not protecting their own private documents. (I would expect, for example, that things like academic transcripts and contact info are not retreivable under FOIA.) Will WVU really want to pull that string any farther than they already have?

Besides, what was supposedly destroyed?

- Academic transcripts? WVU will have copies of those.
- Recruits' contact info? Presumably there are also many, many people who have this information.
- Scholarship files? Again, WVU will keep their own copies.
- Class attendance files? Ditto.
- Summer camp financials? Ditto. They are not Rodriguez's personal money makers. The school pays for them and collects all revenue.
- Booster data? Unless boosters were making payments directly to Rodriguez - which Dennis Franchione would advise against - the athletic department, not the coach, should be keeping the files.
- Files related to players' community service and personal conduct? Well, if it's criminal stuff, they're just copies of whatever the police department has. The rest of it, well, Bill Stewart was the associate head coach. Undoubtedly he did not have to walk to the head coach's office every time he wanted to look this stuff up.
- Strength and conditioning files? If RR and Barwis did have the only copies of this stuff, it would be fishy. But unless RR's agent is lying through his teeth (not out of the question, agents tend to do that, but this would not be one of those times) then the coaches who remained also have copies.

The long and short of it is, anything that's truly important, there will be more copies of. It is not a crime and not scandalous to destroy things that there are more copies of. I generate reports all the time, and print extra copies for people who need them, and throw away what I don't use. Not a crime. Steve, I would argue that the agent did not say that RR didn't remove stuff from the office, because RR is not accused of doing so. They are accusing him of shredding it, not stealing it.

 

[SNIPER26]

RRod put a spell on everyone.

Ty made him do it

 

[OCBucksFan]

H2M, I understand where your coming from but do me a favor, and take a step back and look at this whole situation. Really, why are you defending the guy beyond saying "God, I hope this isn't true." Right now, your putting blind faith into someone who might actually hurt your program, and not just hurt it a little but, like put an enormous black eye on it. Understand something, I hate Michigan, but I don't want to see it's football program destroyed, I may find temporary joy out of it being under NCAA investigation, but in the end, it hurts the Big10 as a whole. Now, defend all you want, but if this all comes out and there's even a hint of truth to it, you're going to feel the wrath, and I may not be leading the charge, but trust me, I will have a torch and pitchfork. On the other hand, if I am wrong, and this is just all a break-up gone bad and a huge slander campaign, you won't need to say anything because everyone here will point it out, what I am saying is you are setting yourself into a lose-only position for someone you know very little about.

Let's take a look at what you have here.

1) You have a coach who's system dictates the recruits. He's not going to change things up if he can get a great set, right now he's drooling because he can get large linebackers and a big defense while running the spread. Do you think that is going to last in the Big10? How long before the entire big10 figures him out and just crushes him? This isn't the Big East, Michigan has a recruiting advantage over 9 of the other teams, but they are on par with the 10th and if he's hunting for a specific system, well that may hurt you in some areas.

2) What do you know about this guy? I mean Carr was from the Michigan system, and Bo was fucking Bo! Nothing more needs to be said, he was one of the two people who brought so much passion to this rivalry and helped make the Big10 what it is.

3) Michigan is what it is, it's a proud school, high standards and a lot of educated douchebags. I come from Ohio, I hate everything about your state, but on the other hand, your university has a lot of pride. Even with all the bad blood between the two states, I don't think you'll find an Ohioan that wants to see your program destroyed, we need your ass to kick, but we don't want to be kicking a dead puppy.

Now, sum up everything I just said, if this all comes true, what happens? If Michigan keeps this guy and any of these allegations are true then you have just lost all credibility as a program, your schools image has changed and that will show in recruiting, and why? Because fans chose to support a guy for no reason other than "He did well in the Big East." Play devils advocate all you want, but if this all blows up in your face don't be surprised.

 

[Gatorubet]

H2M, I understand where your coming from but do me a favor, and take a step back and look at this whole situation. Really, why are you defending the guy beyond saying "God, I hope this isn't true." Right now, your putting blind faith into someone who might actually hurt your program, and not just hurt it a little but, like put an enormous black eye on it. Understand something, I hate Michigan, but I don't want to see it's football program destroyed, I may find temporary joy out of it being under NCAA investigation, but in the end, it hurts the Big10 as a whole. Now, defend all you want, but if this all comes out and there's even a hint of truth to it, you're going to feel the wrath, and I may not be leading the charge, but trust me, I will have a torch and pitchfork. On the other hand, if I am wrong, and this is just all a break-up gone bad and a huge slander campaign, you won't need to say anything because everyone here will point it out, what I am saying is you are setting yourself into a lose-only position for someone you know very little about.

Let's take a look at what you have here.

1) You have a coach who's system dictates the recruits. He's not going to change things up if he can get a great set, right now he's drooling because he can get large linebackers and a big defense while running the spread. Do you think that is going to last in the Big10? How long before the entire big10 figures him out and just crushes him? This isn't the Big East, Michigan has a recruiting advantage over 9 of the other teams, but they are on par with the 10th and if he's hunting for a specific system, well that may hurt you in some areas.

2) What do you know about this guy? I mean Carr was from the Michigan system, and Bo was fucking Bo! Nothing more needs to be said, he was one of the two people who brought so much passion to this rivalry and helped make the Big10 what it is.

3) Michigan is what it is, it's a proud school, high standards and a lot of educated douchebags. I come from Ohio, I hate everything about your state, but on the other hand, your university has a lot of pride. Even with all the bad blood between the two states, I don't think you'll find an Ohioan that wants to see your program destroyed, we need your ass to kick, but we don't want to be kicking a dead puppy.

Now, sum up everything I just said, if this all comes true, what happens? If Michigan keeps this guy and any of these allegations are true then you have just lost all credibility as a program, your schools image has changed and that will show in recruiting, and why? Because fans chose to support a guy for no reason other than "He did well in the Big East." Play devils advocate all you want, but if this all blows up in your face don't be surprised.

Blah blah blah OC - have the stripper's room service charges shown up on Dickwad's Athletic Department credit card yet?

 

[Steve19]

Well you'd think they would have some sort of backup scheme to avoid such things (academic tampering as well come to think of it)....

The part I don't understand is shouldn't the compliance office have copies????

I also wonder why that hasn't been forthcoming from WVa, given the attorney statement.

I suppose they might say so long as compliance has access when requested, why would they need them? Sounds like some of the files had little to do with compliance anyway.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...But for the sake of argument...

HtM, lately I've only been scanning this thread, but that is probably the most fitting statement in it. "But for the sake of argument", what is there to say about this guy? His record speaks for itself. It is being interpreted as negatively as possible by some here, but we know you too well to think that you're surprised by that.

Feel free to keep defending him, just be careful that you don't end up in the position of all the Mountaineer fans who are now embarrassed by all of the message-board-love they once gave this guy.

 

[Tonyank]

I don't think you'll find an Ohioan that wants to see your program destroyed, we need your ass to kick, but we don't want to be kicking a dead puppy.

LMFAO!!!! Great Post man!!!!

 

[Steve19]

I'm probably having too much fun arguing this stuff and I should stop. But for the sake of argument, this is the same facility that the entire West Virginia football team was hanging around on Sunday the 16th which should have made it easy for Rodriguez to call a player meeting prior to calling Terrelle Pryor, right? Two days later, a Tuesday, and it's a ghost town, and nobody who is there mentions a single word to anyone in charge that Coach Rodriguez is here cleaning out his office and oh by the way he's stuffing entire file cabinets into a shredder?

And - again - nobody discovered this until three weeks after the fact?

HTM, I respect your contribution here and I am not calling you out, but let's explore this. The scenario you describe is reasonable. Being in a facility does not necessarily mean being in proximity of the head coach's offices. If Jim Tressel was in his office shredding or preparing documents to remove them, players in the Woody Hayes facility might have no idea. Head coach's offices often are a bit removed to give them some privacy and thinking space.

I doubt much will come of this. Assuming even the absolute worst, that RR purposely took, shredded, or otherwise stole very important (and confidential - not public) documents that belonged to the school (as the school claims), then WVU is guilty of more than galactic stupidity, they're guilty of criminal negligence in not protecting their own private documents. (I would expect, for example, that things like academic transcripts and contact info are not retreivable under FOIA.) Will WVU really want to pull that string any farther than they already have?

Criminal negligence? FOIA? Come on back to reality. First, his employment status was not finalized yet and he was still head coach. Second, these are student documents that are clearly not his property. Confidentiality of student documents and their ownership are well-known concepts. WVa has no string to pull. Some files were available to RR in his office. Others to the S&C coach in the training room, if I understand correctly. So long as that system had worked and the compliance office had access, you could argue that the system was open to abuse and that they were negligent, but so what? If he is guilty, then RR and his accomplices may very well have committed a crime.

Besides, what was supposedly destroyed?
Let me respond, with comments in red to make this tractable.

- Academic transcripts? WVU will have copies of those.
- Recruits' contact info? Presumably there are also many, many people who have this information. Apparently, the files contain information about recruitment, extended family and other issues beyond current contact details.
- Scholarship files? Again, WVU will keep their own copies. Says who? Maybe the University keeps the athletic scholarship files and payments information with the coaches who are directly responsible for the players?
- Class attendance files? Ditto. Nope. At Ohio State, for instance, professors typically do not keep class attendance. Professors receive a form for each player asking about class attendance and performance.
- Summer camp financials? Ditto. They are not Rodriguez's personal money makers. The school pays for them and collects all revenue. But may well have kept those files with the coach directly responsible for the players.
- Booster data? Unless boosters were making payments directly to Rodriguez - which Dennis Franchione would advise against - the athletic department, not the coach, should be keeping the files. If he was responsible for recruiting booster participation, these files probably kept details of who he contacted, what he promised, etc. Of course, with such an honest guy, what could be in files like that? Payments directly to him, haven't heard any allegations about that, but who knows at this point?
- Files related to players' community service and personal conduct? Well, if it's criminal stuff, they're just copies of whatever the police department has. The rest of it, well, Bill Stewart was the associate head coach. Undoubtedly he did not have to walk to the head coach's office every time he wanted to look this stuff up. So, are you saying that instead of that he had time to copy and file each report in his own office and that the University would pay to have two copies of student files? Why? This place isn't the size of Ohio State or TSUN. We're talking West by God Virginia.
- Strength and conditioning files? If RR and Barwis did have the only copies of this stuff, it would be fishy. But unless RR's agent is lying through his teeth (not out of the question, agents tend to do that, but this would not be one of those times) then the coaches who remained also have copies. Maybe the devil is in the details. What if there was something untoward going on and this would be revealed by the detailed data on performance included in those files? In that case, yeah, who would let multiple copies be distributed. On the other hand, what if these files just consisted of training records and etc and were kept in a common place for use by the students? The motivation for taking them? The S&C coach hadn't collected the data for this year yet for analysis and he wanted to analyze it in detail?

The long and short of it is, anything that's truly important, there will be more copies of. It is not a crime and not scandalous to destroy things that there are more copies of. I generate reports all the time, and print extra copies for people who need them, and throw away what I don't use. Not a crime. Steve, I would argue that the agent did not say that RR didn't remove stuff from the office, because RR is not accused of doing so. They are accusing him of shredding it, not stealing it.

No, they are saying that the files are no longer there and that multiple people saw him and an associate shredding files. He could have removed files too and may have been shredding things that are not part of what is considered missing.

I have lots of very important files in my offices that are on one copy only basis because they are very confidential.

As for those speaking on his behalf, the comments were planned, HTM, not off the cuff. They are intended to deflect attention away from the investigation that will come and to try to intimidate the academics at WVa to respond to the "fairness" of RR in not litigating in public. He's already claimed that they did not keep agreements with him, had his closest public booster trash the University when he signed, and indicated that he will not pay. Surely, he will respond in the future, but it doesn't sound like it will be at a time and place of his choosing, unless that is a courtroom.

Like I said, he's telling you who he is, just listen.

 

[osugrad21]

Dispatch

Commentary | college football: Rodriguez's move to Michigan has been anything but smooth

Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:39 AM
By Tim Dahlberg


ASSOCIATED PRESS




Rich Rodriguez might have gotten an inkling that this was not going to end well when, less than 24 hours after leaving for Michigan, the folks in tiny Grant Town had removed the highway signs advertising the West Virginia hamlet as the football coach's hometown. If that wasn't enough, some unhappy fans gave him more clues when they hung disparaging signs on a fence at his home and tossed a mailbox into the yard. There were death threats against some of his relatives, and online communities were formed simply for the pleasure of being able to write expletives in front of his name.
People heckled him at the airport, the governor expressed outrage, and the state filed suit asking for the $4 million Rodriguez promised to pay back if he should ever leave the University of West Virginia.

Cont...

 

[osugrad21]

Sentinel

Rodriguez suit will go to federal court

January 17, 2008



West Virginia University's lawsuit against Rich Rodriguez was transferred to federal court on Wednesday because the former Mountaineers coach had moved to Michigan when it was filed.

"We're perfectly comfortable and happy to litigate this case in any court," said Thomas Flaherty, a Charleston attorney representing WVU. "This is not unanticipated."

The move gives Rodriguez, hired by Michigan on Dec. 16, until next Wednesday to file a response. The suit was filed in a local court on Dec. 27 to collect on a $4 million buyout clause in his contract.




Meanwhile, the university is continuing its investigation into missing records associated with the program under Rodriguez.

"What's got to be determined is what exactly is missing," WVU spokesman Mike Fragale told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "There's a lot of things I just don't know."



Cont...