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Retiring Numbers (Merged)

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jimotis4heisman said:
chic didnt....granted he was named the best player of the first half of the century.

im against it a place like the ohio state university should be above it.
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Chic played before they awarded the heisman, they clearly would have given him one.

Um, I have no response to the last part. Maybe someone else will deal with that.
 
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Chic played before they awarded the heisman, they clearly would have given him one.
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i know, as i stated he was named the best player in the first half of the century.

I don't think we should retire numbers at all. We have enough guys wearing duplicate numbers, already.

Besides, if Archie's #45 was worn (Katz) anybody else is fair game.
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agree, i just think there are too many great ones etc. just an old school belief of mine.


on the john heisman subjecta little trivia, does anyone know what postions the 5ft 8 158lb cleveland born kid played???
 
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Uh, with 105 players on the roster, there's going to be a degree of duplicate numbers anyways, so what's the difference if there's five duplicate numbers or 11 duplicate numbers? If you win the Heisman Trophy for your school while helping lead it to a national title or multiple top-5 finishes, you deserve it.

As for the statement, "a place like the ohio state university should be above it", even if I were a graduate of OSU I would laugh that off. I can understand having strong affection for your favorite school or your alma mater, but that's a tad too arrogant for me.
 
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The Programs you could buy at the games last year said that for a player to get his number retired, he needed to meet certain criteria. One was something like to "be in good standing with the university." That seems to me to be lawyer-language for "the university gets to pick who they like." Another of the criteria was that the player needs to have won the Heisman, or another of the major awards. I don't know how they got Harley, as I wouldn't have guessed that the major awards existed, yet, when he played. Maybe his "Best Player of the First Half of the Century" counts as an award.

I like the idea of retiring numbers, but they need to relax a bit. I'd like them to not retire one number every year. Maybe about one number every five years. And the school should never feel that "it's time" to retire another number, so let's pick someone. Instead, they should say "We need to honor this guy, how can we do it?" If they feel the best way to honor this guy is to retire his number, then do it.

And as for duplicate numbers, I find it a little annoying. But what can we do about it? Aside from giving players triple-digit numbers, or fractions, there's nothing else that can be done.
 
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Zurp: considering the fact that Ohio Stadium has long been referred to as "the House that Harley built" i would certainly hope that his number is enshrined there... Chic Harley, more than anyone else, laid the foundation for the Tradition that is Ohio State Football... when he was in High School, he used to draw larger crowds than the Buckeyes did... Harley was the first four sport letter winner in Ohio State History... during his first season, he led Ohio State to the highest score in Ohio State history, as well as the largest margin of victory in Ohio State history as he led the Buckeyes to a 128-0 victory over hapless Oberlin IN ONLY HIS SECOND GAME! the Buckeyes scored 19 TDs, and amassed a mind-boggling 1,140 yards of offense in that single game... Harley led the Buckeyes to a 7-0 record in '16, and helped guide the Program to it's first Big Ten Title, and was named an AA...

for his second campaign, Harley lead the Buckeyes to a repeat Conference Title with an 8-0-1 record, as the Buckeyes outscored their opponents by a ridiculous margin of 292-6... Harley was named an AA for the second time... as a point of reference, there have only been TWO times in Ohio State history that Ohio State has captured back to back, outright Big Ten Titles: 1916-1917 and 1954-1955...

Harley missed the 1918 season because of WWI, and the Buckeyes struggled to a disappointing 3-3 record, but he returned in 1919 to lead the Buckeyes to a 6-1 record, with the only loss being in the last game of the season against Illinois... the highlight of the '19 season was that Harley lead the Buckeyes to their first ever victory over scUM, by a score of 13-3... Harley was named AA for the third time...

it was primarily because of Chic Harley, and the incredible draw that he had, that Ohio Stadium was built... and if i had my druthers, they would name the field after him...

Heisman worthy? you bet your sweet ass... Harley was the best football player in the first half of the Century, not at Ohio State, but in FOOTBALL PERIOD...

thanks, Jack Park!
 
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Couple of points

1-Geiger or the Board of trustees or whomever obviously made the decision to retire the Heisman winners, and Chic Harley. Why not have a special ceremony once a year. Why make Cassidy wait longer than Horvath, or whatever. The criteria are pretty obvious-the school simply didn't waste time honoring the 6 guys who qualified-nor should they have.

2-Speilman was a great player. That said, I don't think he was better than Big Kat or Hawk-I have seen them play. I don't know if he was better than Gradishar or Cousineau. Either way, I don't think he should have his # retired-I don't think his career was that transcendant. Retiring a # is a pretty huge honor at a place like OSU, and you have to draw the line somewhere. If you are going to retire Pace, why not retire John Hicks (I realize they both wore the same #)? Hicks finished second in the Heisman voting-I don't know if Pace actually got serious consideration or not. Why not retire Tatum's #-he was as good at his position as Speilman was at his.

lvbuckeye said:
Heisman worthy? you bet your sweet ass... Harley was the best football player in the first half of the Century, not at Ohio State, but in FOOTBALL PERIOD...
thanks, Jack Park!
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Wow-that's pretty bold statement-best player of the 1st half of the century. I think Red Grange and Dick "NightTrain" Lane might have an argument w/ that one, but it would be a hell of a debate.
 
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stxbuck said:
Wow-that's pretty bold statement-best player of the 1st half of the century. I think Red Grange and Dick "NightTrain" Lane might have an argument w/ that one, but it would be a hell of a debate.
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Dick "Night Train" Lane was a great Pro, but his college career was basically nonexistent. He never played major college football. Was this a test to see if the board was paying attention? :wink2:

The other player besides Red Grange that would have had a good claim to "best player before 1950" was Glenn Davis ("Mr. Outside"), who won the Heisman in 1946 after finishing second twice: in 1944 (Les Horvath) and 1945 (teammate Doc Blanchard).

Here's some info on "Night Train" Lane:
lane_dicknt.jpg

Dick "Night Train" Lane: Former Green Bay coach Vince Lombardi called him the greatest cornerback he had ever seen. NFL wide receivers who carried battle scars from his vicious hits called him mean and uncompromising.
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Love him or hate him, Dick "Night Train" Lane was a defensive force, a fearless ballhawk who disrupted passing attacks for 14 outstanding seasons with the Los Angeles Rams, Chicago Cardinals and Detroit Lions.
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Incredibly, the 6-1, 194-pound Lane had never played above the junior college level when he showed up at the Rams offices in 1952 and asked for a tryout. Soon he was getting on-the-job training against some of the NFL's best receivers in one-on-one situations.

His instincts were sharp, his athleticism good enough to make up for the inevitable mistakes. When Lane's rookie season ended, he had 14 interceptions -- a still-standing NFL record -- and a pair of touchdown returns.

The flamboyant Night Train, who got his nickname from a popular musical recording of his era, defined how to play cornerback, experimenting and learning as he went along.

Lane developed the reputation as a mean-spirited headhunter, who would bring down ballcarriers with clothesline and facemask tackles that prompted legislation to outlaw such tactics. Many receivers, understandably wary, were defeated before the ball was ever snapped.

Lane was an impact player who made good things happen, primarily with his big-play, gambling style and a fierce determination to win.

He was one of the NFL's original ball-strippers and his reputation for dishing out pain was almost legendary. Happy and fun-loving off the field, he played with an edge that few could match.

When he finished his career in 1965 after six years with the Lions, he had 68 interceptions, a figure that still ranks third on the all-time list.
 
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In 1950, when the Associated Press selected its All-Star college football team of the first half of the 20th century, the well-known running back great Red Grange from Illinois was a second-team selection. The first-team running backs were Carlisle's Jim Thorpe and Ohio State's Chic Harley.

Bill Harley, 81, Chic's nephew who lives in Oakbrook, Ill., said he remembers hearing a reporter's explanation as to why he voted Chic above Grange.

"He was asked why," Bill Harley said, "and he said, 'Red Grange was a great runner, but that's all he was. Chic Harley was a great runner, a great passer, a great kicker and a great defensive back. That's why he's on my first-team.'
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And there's nothing quite so thrilling from the first year to today like the glory of the going when Chic Harley got away. -James Thurber
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"If you never saw him run with a football, we can't describe it to you. It wasn't like Thorpe or Grange or Harmon or anyone else. It was kind of a cross between music and cannon fire, and it brought your heart up under your ears. In the hardest-fought gridiron battles, Harley usually would get away and score the winning touchdown." -Bob Hooey
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Few could have predicted the immediate impact he would have for Ohio State. For starters, many thought he was too small to play collegiate football in the Western Conference with such powers as Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Chicago. By most accounts, Harley was 5-foot-7 and 150 pounds, although some publications listed him up to 5-foot-9 and 165 pounds. One thing was for sure, though - Harley could do it all.

He proved that in Ohio State's first conference game in his sophomore season of 1916. With 1:10 left to play in the rain at defending Western Conference champion Illinois, Harley dropped back to pass, scrambled, faked a throw and bolted into the end zone for a 13-yard scoring run through the sloppy field. He then called timeout, put on a clean shoe, and calmly kicked the game-winning extra point, handing Illinois a 7-6 defeat, its first loss at home in four years.
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