Reds Tidbits (2011 Season)

[jlb1705]

The intriguing part about the Ubaldo rumor is that the Rockies don't need a catcher. They have their own hot shit prospect at the position, so there would be no need to part with Mesoraco.

 

[scott91575]

I pretty much dismissed this as fantasyland when it first came up but there is consistent buzz of UJ being scouted/trade talks with multiple teams. That makes me think at the very least the Rockies are listening to offers for whatever reason.

If that's the case the Reds have enough prospects to get him and I have a hard time thinking of a scenario where I'd say "that's too much."

Per the Denver Post, the Rockies GM stated "it would take a Herschel Walker deal" to move him. They are currently asking for a teams top 4 prospects. In other words they would demand Mesaraco and Alonso, along with probably a pitcher (I would guess Leake) and a top low end prospect (Billy Hamilton or similar). That is too much.

and yes, that is what they are asking and that doesn't mean they can get it. Yet they are in position to demand that or simply not trade him. They are dangling him out there in hopes someone way overpays, and I am betting they will only trade him if someone does just that.

 

[scott91575]

The intriguing part about the Ubaldo rumor is that the Rockies don't need a catcher. They have their own hot shit prospect at the position, so there would be no need to part with Mesoraco.

That is not really a good thing. It means they would look at the Reds and say "we don't want their best prospect, so why trade with them."

Besides, no one turns down a top catching prospect. So I am sure they would want him included in a trade.

edit: BTW, the rumored deal with the Yanks involves Montero, one of the Yanks top prospects and a catcher.

 

[Jaxbuck]

The intriguing part about the Ubaldo rumor is that the Rockies don't need a catcher. They have their own hot shit prospect at the position, so there would be no need to part with Mesoraco.

Yep.

Leave me Mesoraco and the current MLB team and I'd almost literally empty the farm for a true ace. Maybe hold on to Frazier because it seems the wheels are off the Rolen bus but really, those type of things can be fixed a hell of a lot easier than finding an ace out of the thin blue fucking air.

Now I go one level deeper down the rabbit hole and imagine Chapman pulling a David Price and a rotation of Jiminez, Chapman, Cueto, HB with BA/Leake/Wood or maybe even Volquez rounding it out.

Dare to dream.

 

[scott91575]

Yep.

Leave me Mesoraco and the current MLB team and I'd almost literally empty the farm for a true ace. Maybe hold on to Frazier because it seems the wheels are off the Rolen bus but really, those type of things can be fixed a hell of a lot easier than finding an ace out of the thin blue fucking air.

Now I go one level deeper down the rabbit hole and imagine Chapman pulling a David Price and a rotation of Jiminez, Chapman, Cueto, HB with BA/Leake/Wood or maybe even Volquez rounding it out.

Dare to dream.

I am not sure Ubaldo is a true ace. He had one season where he had a sub 3 ERA, and most of that was from a first half where he was close to unhittable. Yet since then he has lost 3 mph on his fastball, which is a big red flag. His ERA in the last last 365 days is 3.95 and a WHIP of 1.302. I know people are looking at a nice recent turnaround, but forget he also had a near 4 era for the second half of last year.

I don't in any way see Ubaldo as a sure ace, and I would not gut the farm system for him.

 

[chille37]

I am not sure Ubaldo is a true ace. He had one season where he had a sub 3 ERA, and most of that was from a first half where he was close to unhittable. Yet since then he has lost 3 mph on his fastball, which is a big red flag. His ERA in the last last 365 days is 3.95 and a WHIP of 1.302. I know people are looking at a nice recent turnaround, but forget he also had a near 4 era for the second half of last year.

I don't in any way see Ubaldo as a sure ace, and I would not gut the farm system for him.

That is exactly what I was thinking. The guy has not impressed me at all this year.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I am not sure Ubaldo is a true ace. He had one season where he had a sub 3 ERA, and most of that was from a first half where he was close to unhittable. Yet since then he has lost 3 mph on his fastball, which is a big red flag. His ERA in the last last 365 days is 3.95 and a WHIP of 1.302. I know people are looking at a nice recent turnaround, but forget he also had a near 4 era for the second half of last year.

I don't in any way see Ubaldo as a sure ace, and I would not gut the farm system for him.

How nice would it be to have Dave Duncan and effectively ensure that any pitching acquisition would be a complete success? :(

 

[scott91575]

That is exactly what I was thinking. The guy has not impressed me at all this year.

I will say this, he is terrible at home. GABP is also a hitters park, but the thin air in Denver could be hurting his stuff. Yet he also has a BABIP of .218 on the road, and most of his road games are San Diego, San Fran, and LA. All pitchers parks.

I won't say he won't be an ace, but he is not a sure thing. There are things that say he could be, but there are also a ton of red flags that say he won't.

I'd trade Alonso, Hamilton, Wood, and a throw in. Yet I doubt the Rockies would take that.

 

[jlb1705]

That is not really a good thing. It means they would look at the Reds and say "we don't want their best prospect, so why trade with them."

Besides, no one turns down a top catching prospect. So I am sure they would want him included in a trade.

edit: BTW, the rumored deal with the Yanks involves Montero, one of the Yanks top prospects and a catcher.

The article I had read said that the Rockies might see Montero as a 1B rather than a C. If that's the case... Yonder Alonso.

I will say this, he is terrible at home. GABP is also a hitters park, but the thin air in Denver could be hurting his stuff. Yet he also has a BABIP of .218 on the road, and most of his road games are San Diego, San Fran, and LA. All pitchers parks.

I won't say he won't be an ace, but he is not a sure thing. There are things that say he could be, but there are also a ton of red flags that say he won't.

I'd trade Alonso, Hamilton, Wood, and a throw in. Yet I doubt the Rockies would take that.

I wonder how much of that WHIP is derived from bigger outfield gaps and deeper outfield positioning at his home park. Coors is a hitter's park and so is GABP - but for different reasons. Post-humidor, Coors Field is dangerous for its cavernous dimensions rather than the thin air. There's more room for balls to drop in for hits. So far this season Coors is neutral for HRs, but allows more total base hits than any other park. GABP meanwhile is a top-ten HR park, but ranks 20th (and pitcher friendly) overall for base hits.

 

[Bucknut24]

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

i personally would take that in a heart beat, obviously they won't do anything with alonso, volquez..PEACE...and I can live with giving up wood to get jimenez

 

[Jaxbuck]

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

i personally would take that in a heart beat, obviously they won't do anything with alonso, volquez..PEACE...and I can live with giving up wood to get jimenez

That's more of a a fair deal than it initially seems if you go from the pov UJ isn't an ace.

2 young near MLB ready pitchers, one with huge upside in terms of stuff and an MLB ready bat for an established, cheap, better than average but not really ace SP.

 

[scott91575]

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

i personally would take that in a heart beat, obviously they won't do anything with alonso, volquez..PEACE...and I can live with giving up wood to get jimenez

I doubt Colorado would take that, but stranger things have happened. I would certainly do that one. Even if Ubaldo is not an ace, he would provide more for this team than those 3, especially in the short term.

 

[scott91575]

The other thing is I keep hearing the Reds are looking for bullpen help. I really hope they don't spend too much on that. Sure, I would love to replace Cordero with Heath Bell, but that isn't happening. So it's a setup guy, and that means a replacement for Arredondo (on the DL right now) or Chapman. I hope it's Chapman. Send him to AAA as a starter.

It would be great to get Mike Adams, but he would cost too much. Other than him there is not much out there.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I doubt Colorado would take that, but stranger things have happened. I would certainly do that one. Even if Ubaldo is not an ace, he would provide more for this team than those 3, especially in the short term.

I don't know, if the Reds were hopelessly out of it would we take 3 legit, near MLB ready prospects for Cueto or Bailey? I'd hope to god they'd at least seriously listen to a team offering that.

The more I think of it from a non Reds perspective the more I think its not that far fetched. UJ's youth and club friendly contract make it a little more unrealistic I guess but I don't think its as impossible as I did at first.

I dunno, hopefully they are at least involved in some rumors to get a spark of excitement here even if it probably comes to the usual two things; jack and shit.

 

[scott91575]

I don't know, if the Reds were hopelessly out of it would we take 3 legit, near MLB ready prospects for Cueto or Bailey? I'd hope to god they'd at least seriously listen to a team offering that.

The more I think of it from a non Reds perspective the more I think its not that far fetched. UJ's youth and club friendly contract make it a little more unrealistic I guess but I don't think its as impossible as I did at first.

I dunno, hopefully they are at least involved in some rumors to get a spark of excitement here even if it probably comes to the usual two things; jack and shit.

Ubaldo is probably closer to Cueto. Would you take Wood, Volquez, and Alonso for Cueto? I wouldn't.