Reds Tidbits (2009 season)

[NFBuck]

Not a Reds fan but I saw this trade and I'm wondering if you guys can shed some light on it. If I'm not mistaken, Sickels had the two prospects the Reds gave up in his preseason top 10. Why does a team that is 11 games under .500 trade a fairly young player and two decent prospects for a 35 year old 3rd baseman? Is this move aimed at contending next year? Just can't figure out what need the Reds have for Rolen.

 

[Jt4prez]

Yeah, this trade is for next season. However, the Reds still need to sign a free agent LF for next season for this trade to make any sense. If the Reds do not acquire help in the outfield for next season than this trade will make even less sense than it already does. As many have stated, this would have been a good trade 5 years ago.

We gave up a whole hell of a lot IMO. Roenicke was already in the big leagues and has pretty good stuff and is probably going to be a decent middle reliever for the Jays. Stewart on the other hand, was the Reds best pitching prospect in the minors. He had been dominating in AA, and when he was moved to AAA he continued his dominance with a sub 2.00 ERA and an excellent groundball ratio. Stewart has the potential to be a #2 starter in the big leagues, or a very good closer due to his great fastball/slider combination. Zach Stewart will be a very good pitcher in the big leagues.

 

[jlb1705]

Not a Reds fan but I saw this trade and I'm wondering if you guys can shed some light on it. If I'm not mistaken, Sickels had the two prospects the Reds gave up in his preseason top 10. Why does a team that is 11 games under .500 trade a fairly young player and two decent prospects for a 35 year old 3rd baseman? Is this move aimed at contending next year? Just can't figure out what need the Reds have for Rolen.

It's the Reds. You're thinking too hard.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Not a Reds fan but I saw this trade and I'm wondering if you guys can shed some light on it. If I'm not mistaken, Sickels had the two prospects the Reds gave up in his preseason top 10. Why does a team that is 11 games under .500 trade a fairly young player and two decent prospects for a 35 year old 3rd baseman? Is this move aimed at contending next year? Just can't figure out what need the Reds have for Rolen.

You forgot "with a bad back". Its a 35 year old 3rd baseman with a bad back.

The answer is simply because thats what stupid teams do. The Reds brass is convinced this team is a player or two away from contending. The GM also puts a great deal of faith in a players ability to replicate career years as witnessed by the acquisition of Willy Tavaras and now Rolen.

When the Rolen talks first came up I was ok with it because he is a better player than EE and because I thought it was to fix 3B because EE was out for the year. Giving up two legit prospects and EE for Rolen is just fucking retarded.

To cement it here is the comment from Walt "I got lucky as fuck and picked Pujols in the 13th round so everyone thinks I'm a genius" Jocketty:

I asked Walt Jocketty how the Reds, who are 9 1/2 games out, could add veteran at the deadline.

"Scott Rolen makes up better for this year and next."

Jocketty also said he hopes to keep Rolen beyond 2010.

The Reds gave up a lot -- Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart. They are getting cash in the deal. I don't know how much. The Reds made the trade to do more than upgrade themselves at third base.

"The young pitching was the stumbling block," Jocketty said. "We finally gave in. We just felt that there are a lot of things that Scott will provide this club that we thought was lacking -- leadership on the field with a position player. I've had a lot of experience with him in St. Louis. I think. He will bring a lot of our club. He's still playing well. He's a good RBI guy. The guys who were in Toronto with us saw the defense he plays. He's going to be a big asset to our club.

"As I said, it was difficult to give up the young pitching. Edwin was part of it. Obviously, with Scott coming. There was a spot for Scott to play."

Its a sellers market you retarded piece of shit. Gave in? Oh wait a minute, you think you were the buyer!! AHHAAAHHHAAAAHHHHAAA

 

[jlb1705]

If anybody is in need of some entertainment though, RedsZone is blowing the fuck up over losing Zach Stewart like he's Chris Denorfia or something.

 

[Jaxbuck]

If anybody is in need of some entertainment though, RedsZone is blowing the fuck up over losing Zach Stewart like he's Chris Denorfia or something.

that was a good meltdown.

I think Stewart was being held down a level to inflate his stats but its still too much for Rolen. WTF does he do for this team? And if the plan is to get a vet or two in here why the fuck do you trade JHJ for a bag of balls when Rolens arrival can finally make him more of a bench player, which is the one situation in which he has some value?

I know 2 things to be certain:
1) There is no plan
2) As has been said before, whatever Mike Brown has is contagious and Walt has it.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

No Yonder Alonso included. I hereby rescinded my previous letter of resignation, but respectfully request that I be placed on indefinite unpaid suspension, effective immediately.

 

[Jaxbuck]

No Yonder Alonso included. I hereby rescinded my previous letter of resignation, but respectfully request that I be placed on indefinite unpaid suspension, effective immediately.

We have approximately 5 hours and 55 minutes befor the calendar turns to August. August is football season so all Reds fans (who follow football at least) take their unpaid sabbatical then. If they don't they deserve every minute of agony they suffer through.

BTW, I for one am VERY happy I didn't see the Alonso rumor before it was killed. I get worked up enough, I would have need that shit like Custer needed more Indians.

 

[jlb1705]

that was a good meltdown.

I think Stewart was being held down a level to inflate his stats but its still too much for Rolen. WTF does he do for this team? And if the plan is to get a vet or two in here why the [censored] do you trade JHJ for a bag of balls when Rolens arrival can finally make him more of a bench player, which is the one situation in which he has some value?

I know 2 things to be certain:
1) There is no plan
2) As has been said before, whatever Mike Brown has is contagious and Walt has it.

I'll admit I didn't know much about Stewart until RedsZone went ape[censored]. I did know that he apparently had a functional pitching arm, and I also knew that if he continued pitching for the Cincinnati organization he may not be able to lift that arm anymore in one year's time.

That's why I'm not as [censored]ed off as some of those folks are. To me Scott Rolen on a downhill slide is better than Edwin + some guy who would inevitably turn into the next Chris Gruler. I've seen enough Reds minor league arms get blown up - I'm glad they turned one of them into a player capable of major league-level production before it was too late. And good for the kid - he has escaped to Canada, and may now stand a chance of getting more than a cup of coffee in the bigs.

A trade like this has the look of something a smart team might do, but it's pretty suspect coming from the Reds. At this point, the infield defense isn't looking too bad if you have Rolen-Janish-Phillips-Votto-Hanigan. Still a lot of ifs for the rest of the club, but it could be considered a step in the right direction if the team were run by anybody who had a clue or a plan. Instead what we'll likely get is more losing and the next major move being a 5-yr. extension for the aging Rolen.

I might be tempted to go to a game depending on who gets traded during the waiver period and who gets called up when the roster is expanded. I'll have to keep my eye on the Hot Dog Price Index.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I'll admit I didn't know much about Stewart until RedsZone went ape[censored]. I did know that he apparently had a functional pitching arm, and I also knew that if he continued pitching for the Cincinnati organization he may not be able to lift that arm anymore in one year's time.

That's why I'm not as [censored]ed off as some of those folks are. To me Scott Rolen on a downhill slide is better than Edwin + some guy who would inevitably turn into the next Chris Gruler. I've seen enough Reds minor league arms get blown up - I'm glad they turned one of them into a player capable of major league-level production before it was too late. And good for the kid - he has escaped to Canada, and may now stand a chance of getting more than a cup of coffee in the bigs.

A trade like this has the look of something a smart team might do, but it's pretty suspect coming from the Reds. At this point, the infield defense isn't looking too bad if you have Rolen-Janish-Phillips-Votto-Hanigan. Still a lot of ifs for the rest of the club, but it could be considered a step in the right direction if the team were run by anybody who had a clue or a plan. Instead what we'll likely get is more losing and the next major move being a 5-yr. extension for the aging Rolen.

I might be tempted to go to a game depending on who gets traded during the waiver period and who gets called up when the roster is expanded. I'll have to keep my eye on the Hot Dog Price Index.

Stewart is roughly a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Projecting Stewarts health/productivity isn't the point. His current value in the "prospects are gold" market place of MLB is the point. This is a massive over payment as we speak.

Stewart may very well blow his arm out in his first game for the Jays and Rolen might play 162 games and win a triple crown next year, who knows. At this time, given what prospects are going for this was terrible. Just terrible.

EE isn't as good as Rolen defensively but he's younger and cheaper. EE and a young bullpener for Rolen and I'm stil saying this trade sucked. Add in one of the top 50/100 prospects in baseball who happens to be a pitcher and I'm saying this was fucking awful.

As far as the infield projections go make sure you are giving adequate time for the joy that is Pete Roseales at 3B whe Rolens back is flaring up (a lot).

As far as 2010 goes:

• For 2010 we've got 57 million tied up in Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, Rolen, WT and Phillips.
• This is a 70-80 million dollar payroll team come hell or high water.
• Do the math for the other 19 guys that we have to use to fill out a 25 man MLB roster.
• Walt just added 11M to next years payroll and we still don't have a CF, SS or LF.

Stupid, stupid , stupid deal.

 

[EDDIE GGGG27]

Ummmmm.... Why didnt they make this deal when the Reds were at .500? They wait until the Reds are 9 1/2 out and then pull the trigger? Would he have kept them in the race? Most likey not, but it would of been nice to see them at least give it a shot. Typical Reds.

 

[3074326]

The hyperbole in the Indians thread deserves to be in this one after this trade. What the fuck, Reds?

Not a big Reds fan, but I generally root for them because I have a ton of friends who are fans.. can't wait to hear how they feel about this..

 

[jlb1705]

Stewart is roughly a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Projecting Stewarts health/productivity isn't the point. His current value in the "prospects are gold" market place of MLB is the point. This is a massive over payment as we speak.

Stewart may very well blow his arm out in his first game for the Jays and Rolen might play 162 games and win a triple crown next year, who knows. At this time, given what prospects are going for this was terrible. Just terrible.

EE isn't as good as Rolen defensively but he's younger and cheaper. EE and a young bullpener for Rolen and I'm stil saying this trade sucked. Add in one of the top 50/100 prospects in baseball who happens to be a pitcher and I'm saying this was [censored]ing awful.

As far as the infield projections go make sure you are giving adequate time for the joy that is Pete Roseales at 3B whe Rolens back is flaring up (a lot).

As far as 2010 goes:

• For 2010 we've got 57 million tied up in Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, Rolen, WT and Phillips.
• This is a 70-80 million dollar payroll team come hell or high water.
• Do the math for the other 19 guys that we have to use to fill out a 25 man MLB roster.
• Walt just added 11M to next years payroll and we still don't have a CF, SS or LF.

Stupid, stupid , stupid deal.

I can't say I disagree with anything you just said.

However over the last fifteen years the promising prospects the Reds have had have been overvalued to the extent that the Reds hold on to them until the blow up or show their limitations. I'm glad the Reds have shown their willing to trade a prospect when he has value like Steward did. Like you though, I'm not happy with the return that they got for him.

The Indians fans are irate in their thread because they haven't lowered their expectations. They've tasted some semblance of success in the last decade. Us Reds fans look at the next retarded move and know it could've been worse - because it probably already has been worse at some point in the last 12 months.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Ummmmm.... Why didnt they make this deal when the Reds were at .500? They wait until the Reds are 9 1/2 out and then pull the trigger? Would he have kept them in the race? Most likey not, but it would of been nice to see them at least give it a shot. Typical Reds.

Or how about you do it in the off season? Why over pay at the trade deadline for a team thats going absolutely nowhere?

Then again this man saw fit to sign Willy Tavaras so why do I keep bitching about it? Can't blame a fucking idiot for being a fucking idiot, gotta blame the man who employs him.

I've been saying for a while now that it is time for Cincy fans to start asking questions of old smiling Bob.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Us Reds fans look at the next retarded move and know it could've been worse - because it probably already has been worse at some point in the last 12 months.

I predict the inevitible Rolen extension after he has a good 20-30 games to be the next significant low point.