Reds Tidbits (2008 season)

[Fungo Squiggly]

I say you should get Phil Bradley

Forget Phil Bradley. Where's Joe Orsulak these days?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

This move in conjunction to all the other shit they've pulled just doesn't add up.

-Like you said, why get Cordero to punt now or more specifically why not trade him at the deadline?
-Why hold on to guys like Weathers, Arroyo and Affeldt? They won't make it through waivers so you can't trade them now.
-If you are trying to let the FA's walk and get the draft picks why not do the same for Dunn? At this point I'd say the two high draft picks Dunn would have brought are worth more than the bag of balls we got in return.
-Why hold on to Arroyo or Harang at this point? This is total tear it down and rebuild from scratch mode, why do we need them? They'll be too old to help if/when the young talent finally emerges.

Which leads me to another point about our current front office. Friday is the deadline to sign the first round pick we drafted back in June. Not signing 1st rounders over money is something that absolutely killed this farm system before, if this regime does the same shit you can, in the words of the cowboy, kiss the baby -they'll never get us anywhere.

I know Castellini talks about winning and WJ has a track record with St Louis. I'm starting to get that old familiar feeling with this bunch. Hopefully the do something to change that, so far I have been completely unimpressed.

Man Jax, I thought you would be for this...I know you are a Dunn supporter as was I, but it is tear down mode...I do believe that if we get Micah Owings and Josh Whiteseel as the two guys as PTBNLs we will have done a good job...

We gave up Dunn for 1/4 of the season and got three guys that have the opportunity to really help us out in the future. Owings was in the Dbacks future plans, and while he struggle with his control some this year, he gives us another young pitcher that can be at the end of our starting rotation and help us out. Dallas Buck was a first round draft pick until the arm problems...If he can return from those we got a steal there. Then Whiteseel will give Votto time in Left I think, if he is ready to go at the major league level.

So we got 3 good prospects that have shown pretty well in their young careers vs 2 draft picks, 1 comp pick and 1 second round pick. Sounds like a steal to me.

Dunn was not as highly regarded around the league as he should of been in the eyes of Reds fans, I know the numbers, but he was on the block for 3 years now and no one jumped at the opportunity to rake him in.

IMO it is a good thing getting rid of Griffey and Dunn as I think we might see the team take a different route to scoring runs on offense. I don't think we will be so homerun relient. Not saying Homeruns are a bad thing, but if we can bring some guys in that can hit for average, take a walk, work the count, and go about scoring runs, by hitting gaps, and running that isn't a bad thing, because a home run can be a rally killer at times.

We have Bruce I believe will put up an OPS close to .900 next year in his first full season...Votto, EE, Phillips, are guys that will be in their 3-5 year range in the big leagues and ready to step up next year...Now we have openings for leadoff man, we are bringing up a defensive CF in Dickerson that hopefully can show that his bat can stick in the majors, especially against lefties...

As for Alonso there are guys that sign every year on the deadline, and most are saying that he is going to sign...Deadline is Friday and I expect him to sign...

The farm system is also breeding bats right now it seems like, just a little too young to see the majors quite yet.

And to answer the question of why not get rid of Weathers, Affeldt, CoCo, Arroyo, Harang, is to me you don't want to go young on the pitchers too early, and when you do start to work them in, you want some vetren presencse at the major league level to help out...CoCo has been a great leader for Cueto and Volquez...

Harang right now is a steal for his price if he can return to his old self, and Arroyo is a great 4/5 guy for us, especially if the young guys can turn it up next year and we can bring in a FA to help out the offense...

Guys we weren't wining with Dunn and Griffey, losing them did not hurt that much, I understand Dunn's numbers, but we will find different ways to get runs, the times when Dunn was up there and teams pitched around him, maybe someone in his spot doesn't get pitched around and they hit for average and knock some guys in, he was still a guy that struggled to get hits, which hurts at times, and was very streaky which can also kill your team when your best hitter stays cold for an entire month at a time sometimes...But when he was going good we went good, hopefully someone can stay in the middle and as a team of improving young hitters, make up for Dunn's absence from the lineup...At this point we look to get better in left defensively, and the whole outfield as well, which helps the pitchers out as well...

 

[Dryden]

Not saying Homeruns are a bad thing, but if we can bring some guys in that can hit for average, take a walk, work the count, and go about scoring runs, by hitting gaps, and running that isn't a bad thing, because a home run can be a rally killer at times.

Marty?

Grande?

Dusty?

Who the fuck are you?!?!?!?!?

 

[Jaxbuck]

IMO it is a good thing getting rid of Griffey and Dunn as I think we might see the team take a different route to scoring runs on offense. I don't think we will be so homerun relient. Not saying Homeruns are a bad thing, but if we can bring some guys in that can hit for average, take a walk, work the count, and go about scoring runs, by hitting gaps, and running that isn't a bad thing, because a home run can be a rally killer at times.

Again the confusion about the right way to score runs. I don't give a tinkers damn if we play Earl Weaver 3 run HR ball or Whitey Herzog small ball. Just score runs. Up untill this year run scoring hasn't been an issue, its been run prevention that kills us.

One style isn't better than the other, one doesn't give itself to run scoring more than the other. Both have advantages, both have drawbacks.

The problem is that a lot of people still believe what they heard from teeball coaches up through high school that strikeouts are bad and batting average is key.

Its complete bullshit. The tired old men that comprise the Reds media and influence thousands of fans perception don't know anything beyond the back of a baseball card. They all want Pete Rose to come back and any player that doesn't play like his hair is on fire isn't a "real" ball player in their book.

I'm glad Dunn is gone so I don't have to hear this shit anymore. It will be interesting to see how they explain the overall lower runs scored with all these scrappy (which in non Reds media guy parlance means shitty) guys who can hit for average and not kill rallys with home runs.

Adamn Dunn took an ass load of walks and hit an ass load of HR's so we should be in good shape because he's not clogging the bases with walks or killing rallys with his meaningless HR's.

Let the winning begin.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Marty?

Grande?

Dusty?

Who the fuck are you?!?!?!?!?

Not in anyway...I said that homeruns are not bad, but the way we play homerun or nothing, does not win games consistently, you have to be able to have guys on for the homeruns, work the count, run, etc.

I am not talking and bitching about moving guys over with bunts, sac flys, hitting to the right side with a guy on second etc...That is giving up outs...What I am talking about, is being able to produce runs by hitting back to back doubles, by scoring a runner from first on a double, but say a runner is on first and no one out, you hit and homerun that is great 2 runs...But then you have to start up another rally....It is always better to put the runs on the board and I will totally agree with that, which is why what I say here sounds like it makes absolutely no sense, but if the next guy up hits a single you have 1st and 3rd hopefully, which still puts pressure on the pitcher he is throwing out of the stretch, and there are holes open where they are not with no one on base, the problem with the Reds is they don't capatilize in situations like that and hit the holes that are open...It is just easier to hit with guys on base in theory due to holes that should be open due to holding runners on and the fact that pitcher has his mind on the runners some...

Also for Dunn we had a guy that was a dead pull hitter, maybe your next guy can spray to all fields and be a more complete hitter, and put more pressure on a team in their weak defensive areas...

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Man Jax, I thought you would be for this...I know you are a Dunn supporter as was I, but it is tear down mode...I do believe that if we get Micah Owings and Josh Whiteseel as the two guys as PTBNLs we will have done a good job...

Have you heard someplace that these two are going to be the PTBNLs?

 

[gefootball10]

Have you heard someplace that these two are going to be the PTBNLs?

because if they are then i agree the deal for dunn would be better than anticipated. but i doubt arizona would give up both.

and as far as coco being a leader for volquez and cueto, i thought that was the reason we kept having m. soto come up and work with them every now and again. i dont see the point in having a $46M closer just to mentor.. but i could be wrong.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

because if they are then i agree the deal for dunn would be better than anticipated. but i doubt arizona would give up both.

It'd be great if those were the two. Owings has definitely shown some flashes and Whitesell is batting .310+ with 22 homers and 94 RBI in AAA.

I read that they players are "to be named" because they are both on the 40 man roster. That would certainly limit who it could be.

Also, I remember watch Buck pitch for Oregon State in the NCAA's and CWS and he was very good at the time. Hopefully he can be the pitcher he looked like then.

and as far as coco being a leader for volquez and cueto, i thought that was the reason we kept having m. soto come up and work with them every now and again. i dont see the point in having a $46M closer just to mentor.. but i could be wrong.

Agreed. Especially not one who has been mediocre at best this season. Although, I can't imagine who would really want to trade for him at this salary.

Also, I don't know if it's at all correct, but it seemed like both Volquez and Cueto pitched better when Soto was around the clubhouse. Perhaps he should be given a permanent position so that he can more regularly work with these guys.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Have you heard someplace that these two are going to be the PTBNLs?

Well basically those are the two that have been narrowed down to on Redzone as there are only about 12 or so players that it could be, and then they narrowed it down even farther and with some rumors circulating, those seem to be the two guys...Not sure quite yet, but right now that is what it leaning towards...

Again the confusion about the right way to score runs. I don't give a tinkers damn if we play Earl Weaver 3 run HR ball or Whitey Herzog small ball. Just score runs. Up untill this year run scoring hasn't been an issue, its been run prevention that kills us.

One style isn't better than the other, one doesn't give itself to run scoring more than the other. Both have advantages, both have drawbacks.

The problem is that a lot of people still believe what they heard from teeball coaches up through high school that strikeouts are bad and batting average is key.

Its complete bullshit. The tired old men that comprise the Reds media and influence thousands of fans perception don't know anything beyond the back of a baseball card. They all want Pete Rose to come back and any player that doesn't play like his hair is on fire isn't a "real" ball player in their book.

I'm glad Dunn is gone so I don't have to hear this shit anymore. It will be interesting to see how they explain the overall lower runs scored with all these scrappy (which in non Reds media guy parlance means shitty) guys who can hit for average and not kill rallys with home runs.

Adamn Dunn took an ass load of walks and hit an ass load of HR's so we should be in good shape because he's not clogging the bases with walks or killing rallys with his meaningless HR's.

Let the winning begin.

Your putting words in my mouth, that I didn't say...I don't give two shits about how they score the runs either...But to sit here and say that the the reds ability to score runs on nights they can't put the ball over the fence was anything close to a good thing would be blasphemy...I know you are pointing the finger more at other than fans than me, well at least I hope so, but I am not asking for Juan Pierre's, Norris Hopper's and Ryan Freel's to be roaming our outfield...

I am looking for more complete players in the outfield...What I would love to see is someone that could put up close to Adam Dunn's numbers, but not be Homerun/walk or nothing...When Dunn is at his best it is when he is getting doubles and singles as well as the homeruns, much like his month of July...I love Homeruns just as much as the next person, but there is more to an offensive team then being able to score runs by hitting the ball over the fence...You can score runs by doing that, yeah, but it is also the type of offense that will get you 6 one night and 2 the next...Or 10 one night and 1 the next...I want a team that can go game to game, and you know they are going to score some runs, where you know when you score 1 or 2 that you are going to need more to beat them...Not a team that if they get a 3 spot in the first inning, you feel that if the pitcher keeps the ball down we can get back in it...

I am all for an offense that can takes walks as well, but I want to see more line drives than fly outs...I want to see more guys swing at the 5 pitch than the 1st pitch, I want to see the pitcher be around 100 pitches in the 5th on a regular basis instead of the 7th, I also want to see some speed in the lineup, with guys that can score from 1st...

But I am with you there are fans that hated Adam Dunn for striking out too much, and what not, and are misguided, but we weren't going anywhere with his and juniors bat in the lineup, and it would be hard to get any worse than we were the past couple weeks...

 

[Dryden]

It'd be great if those were the two. Owings has definitely shown some flashes and Whitesell is batting .310+ with 22 homers and 94 RBI in AAA.

I read that they players are "to be named" because they are both on the 40 man roster. That would certainly limit who it could be.

If Micah Owings is indeed part of the deal, I'll do back flips!

Volquez, Cueto, and Owings is a good foundation: All at or under the age of 25.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

If Micah Owings is indeed part of the deal, I'll do back flips!

Volquez, Cueto, and Owings is a good foundation: All at or under the age of 25.

Thought it was a bad trade...:tongue2:

You still have Homer and Thompson who just because they struggled at the major league level and Reds fans are already ready to bury them, they gotta be in that discussion as well...

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Arroyo in his comments about the trade, said Dunn was not going to be here next year as he made it no secret that he wanted 100-120 mill for his next contract...

 

[Dryden]

Who Killed the Cincinnati Reds ...

Cincinnati Reds: Who Killed The Cincinnati Reds?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Yeah it would be stupid to follow the Marlins and their 2 World Series in the past 11 years...

And yeah who gives a shit about the DSL, how many of them guys actually make it anyways...They say you gotta hit to make it off the island and it looks like some guys were trying to do that illegally...

Why didn't he look at our minor league system which has some good talent...

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Homer with 4K's thru 2 innings down at Louisville...I was really hoping that he would of stayed up and Fogg would of been sent packing...Really thought his stuff was starting to come around...Hopefully he has a big night tonight...

Drew Stubbs doubled off the wall in his first AAA at bat, I hope he proves us wrong and shows us that he is closer to the majors then many thought...

He and Dickerson would provide a good platoon in CF one from the right side and one of the left, then you have speed off the bench, and a decent pinch hitter, and two guys that could cover any outfield position very well and be a late inning defensive replacement...

BTW why Corey Patterson is starting tonight is beyond me...We brough Dickerson up we need to play him...

I think the next step in Walt's plan will be to overhaul the bullpen...Lots of young talent that will be up here in September if not before...Some guys that are not on the 40 man roster...