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Reds Tidbits (2008 season)

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Jaxbuck;1176691; said:
BP's first pitch hacking into a DP style of hitting really bit us in the ass tonight.

Its amazing the heat Dunn has gotten in this town and the free pass BP gets.
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I agree...I am really starting to hate BPhil in the four hole...I really like Phillips, and think against lefties he would make a great 2 hole hitter and a 6 or 7 hole hitter against Righties...You can see he thinks he needs to be a masher hitting in the cleanup spot...You can say all the right things, but from little league on up it is always state that you put the power hitter in the four hole...It has to be in his mind and he is up there swinging to hard at times...Also his double plays are killing innings, especially the ninth inning tonight...

I like BPhil, just like I like Dunn, but I think that both are not utilized like they should be...

Dunn has the power to hit in the 4 hole...The only freakin' reason why they are misused is the stupid thinking about R-L-R shit...We need a right handed power bat to offset things and allow Bphil to get out of the 4 hole...Unless they like Bruce in CF or don't plan on keeping Dunn, it is going to be hard to get a RH power bat in the lineup...Hopefully EE can develop and we can hit him there, instead of Phillips...

I was thinking about this earlier today...But when we cut ties with Griffey and get Kepp back...

Hairston CF
Kepp SS
Bruce RF
Dunn LF
EE 3B
Votto 1B
BPhil 2B
Ross/Bako C

I think that is mostly what you will see next year on opening day, if we resign Dunn and don't make a deal for a catcher or SS...

That gives us a great table setting top of the lineup if Hairston can continue what he has done, and Kepp can hit like he did to begin the season...Not great speed or anything, but two guys that will take pitches, and get on base...Then followed up by our two best OPS guys, with a EE hopefully hitting the prime of his career, Votto the same and Phillips the same...

The only thing with that lineup is you are under par on defense at SS, CF, and LF...

Not great to do that up the middle...It has really been great to see Freel out there in CF saving runs with his play and running down balls, so I am still all for a CF that can cover a lot of ground and get OBP to take Hairston's spot and a defense first SS, but if we can rake with our pitchign the way it is looking I think we would be ok either way...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1176709; said:
I agree...I am really starting to hate BPhil in the four hole...I really like Phillips, and think against lefties he would make a great 2 hole hitter and a 6 or 7 hole hitter against Righties...You can see he thinks he needs to be a masher hitting in the cleanup spot...You can say all the right things, but from little league on up it is always state that you put the power hitter in the four hole...It has to be in his mind and he is up there swinging to hard at times...Also his double plays are killing innings, especially the ninth inning tonight...

He will always go up there hacking like he's a power hitter regardless of lineup spot. He and Freel suffer the same disease, they simply cannot take pitches.

I like BPhil, just like I like Dunn, but I think that both are not utilized like they should be...

Dunn has the power to hit in the 4 hole...The only freakin' reason why they are misused is the stupid thinking about R-L-R shit...We need a right handed power bat to offset things and allow Bphil to get out of the 4 hole...Unless they like Bruce in CF or don't plan on keeping Dunn, it is going to be hard to get a RH power bat in the lineup...Hopefully EE can develop and we can hit him there, instead of Phillips...

I was thinking about this earlier today...But when we cut ties with Griffey and get Kepp back...

Hairston CF
Kepp SS
Bruce RF
Dunn LF
EE 3B
Votto 1B
BPhil 2B
Ross/Bako C

I think that is mostly what you will see next year on opening day, if we resign Dunn and don't make a deal for a catcher or SS...

Makes entirely too much sense to be a real Dusty Baker lineup

That gives us a great table setting top of the lineup if Hairston can continue what he has done, and Kepp can hit like he did to begin the season...Not great speed or anything, but two guys that will take pitches, and get on base...Then followed up by our two best OPS guys, with a EE hopefully hitting the prime of his career, Votto the same and Phillips the same...

The only thing with that lineup is you are under par on defense at SS, CF, and LF...

LF isn't a premium defensive position and as far as what the average LF does out there, Dunn really isn't as bad as some like to think anymore. As compared to say Manny Ramierez who should be issued a fuckin football helmet out there.


Not great to do that up the middle...It has really been great to see Freel out there in CF saving runs with his play and running down balls, so I am still all for a CF that can cover a lot of ground and get OBP to take Hairston's spot and a defense first SS, but if we can rake with our pitchign the way it is looking I think we would be ok either way...

Freel makes good plays but he also butchers his fair share in the OF and he takes God awful routes to flyballs that make a lot of his plays closer than they should be. His defense is like his base running, a lot of frentic activity, a few good plays but overall he's a liability.

I agree with your point though that we need rangy defense first guys at SS and CF but they simply have to be able to get on base better than Patterson and Janish. 350+ OBP with a big time glove/range and I'm happy.

The other side of this equation is the 4 corner positions have to be able to rake enough that you can carry a couple of punch and judy hitters in those spots as well as C.

With Votto, EE, Dunn and Bruce you may just have that. The extra offense you get from BP at 2B is a bonus.
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bold is mine
 
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Tonight's lineup:

Hairston ss
Patterson cf
Bruce rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Votto 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Bako c
Volquez p

I was bitchin' about Freel batting in the #2 spot, and to me this is even worse. Since Bruce joined the team, they are undefeated when Hairston & Bruce bat one-two, and are 0-3 when they are broken up. Surely if I see this, the man who gets paid millions to put together the lineup for this team does as well, right?

You could also say that the Reds are 0-3 in that span w/o Griffey. For now let's assume that "general soreness" is real and it's not just a ploy to eventually get a few more home gates out of his chase before they have to resort to dollar hot dogs to draw over 16K. The manager needs to take a look at this and realize that sticking an out machine between two of his hottest hitters is not a good way to score runs and win games. If you can't play Griffey, then try this instead of letting judy hitters kill rallies at the heart of the order:

Hairston ss
Bruce rf
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Votto 1b
Phillips 2b
Patterson cf
Bako c
Volquez p

It's been said about every game of this series so far, but this is an important game. You don't want to get swept, and tonight is by far the best chance of the two remaining games to get a 'W'. With the way the rotation lines up for the Reds, if they can manage to win one against the Phils, it is not unreasonable for them to be able to take 3 of 4 against the Fish to finish with a .500 trip. They'll have Cueto-Arroyo-Harang-Volquez going in that series.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1177144; said:
I would play Hairston in CF and Janish at SS...
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Agree 100%. My thoughts last night as soon as I saw farney grab his leg.

I saw a guy on RZ say it best regarding the top of the lineup. he said pretend its the 9th inning, you are down by 1 run and the lineup just rolled over. What three guys do you send up there?

My lineup without JR right now would be:

CF Hariston
LF Dunn
RF Bruce
3B EE
1b Votto
2b Phillips
catcher
SS Janish

I could easily see the case for flip flopping Votto and BP and wouldn't really care one way or the other.
 
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Jaxbuck;1177157; said:
Agree 100%. My thoughts last night as soon as I saw farney grab his leg.

I saw a guy on RZ say it best regarding the top of the lineup. he said pretend its the 9th inning, you are down by 1 run and the lineup just rolled over. What three guys do you send up there?

My lineup without JR right now would be:

CF Hariston
LF Dunn
RF Bruce
3B EE
1b Votto
2b Phillips
catcher
SS Janish

I could easily see the case for flip flopping Votto and BP and wouldn't really care one way or the other.
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I have always thought about putting Dunn in the 2 hole, but I think he would be better suited for the 4 hole...Gives him more chances with guys on base than the 2 hole does...We really don't have a 2 hole hitter on our team...

Bruce is a true #3 hitter in every sense of the word, power, hit for average, xbh, high OBP, high OPS, etc...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1177179; said:
I have always thought about putting Dunn in the 2 hole, but I think he would be better suited for the 4 hole...Gives him more chances with guys on base than the 2 hole does...We really don't have a 2 hole hitter on our team...

Bruce is a true #3 hitter in every sense of the word, power, hit for average, xbh, high OBP, high OPS, etc...
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Hitting with no one on base is familiar territory for the Donkey. :wink2:

Like you said we don't have a true #2 slot type hitter but I wouldn't be afraid to put Dunn or Votto in there. They both know how to work a count. Votto looks like he can handle the bat well enough you could do some hit and run type things with him.

I know this much.....either one of those guys and half this board are better suited for the 2 hole than Cory F'ing Patterson.
 
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Jaxbuck;1177193; said:
Hitting with no one on base is familiar territory for the Donkey. :wink2:

Like you said we don't have a true #2 slot type hitter but I wouldn't be afraid to put Dunn or Votto in there. They both know how to work a count. Votto looks like he can handle the bat well enough you could do some hit and run type things with him.

I know this much.....either one of those guys and half this board are better suited for the 2 hole than Cory F'ing Patterson.
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I agree...I still put Phillips in the 2 hole against lefties...His splits are just to crazy not to...

Against lefties I would go...

hairston
phillips
bruce
dunn
EE
Griff
Votto
Ross

Against righties I would go...

hairston
Votto
Bruce
Dunn
EE
Griff
Phillips
Bako

I don't see any reason to not mix up the lineup when you are facing a righty vs. lefty...Give your team the best situation to win...
 
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Hell I'd leave BP in the 4 hole vs lefties, he absolute abuses them.

One other note on BP, watch out when he gets a little older. Guys who's OBP is strictly driven by ther BA fall off the productivity cliff quicker than anyone. We could quickly come to dread his contract if he's extended too far.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1177179; said:
I have always thought about putting Dunn in the 2 hole, but I think he would be better suited for the 4 hole...Gives him more chances with guys on base than the 2 hole does...We really don't have a 2 hole hitter on our team...

Bruce is a true #3 hitter in every sense of the word, power, hit for average, xbh, high OBP, high OPS, etc...
Click to expand...

This team does have a #2 hitter, unfortunately he is still nursing a broken knee cap.
 
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jlb1705;1177226; said:
This team does have a #2 hitter, unfortunately he is still nursing a broken knee cap.
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good point but if JR plays and now that Dusty's boy is back up you can't just put Kepp at SS then move Hariston to CF(at least in Dusty's mind this in an issue).

Still a couple too many redundant parts and a manager that can't really use them well. Walt needs to come up with a nice trade here soon to smooth out the puzzle imo.
 
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Jaxbuck;1177230; said:
good point but if JR plays and now that Dusty's boy is back up you can't just put Kepp at SS then move Hariston to CF(at least in Dusty's mind this in an issue).

Still a couple too many redundant parts and a manager that can't really use them well. Walt needs to come up with a nice trade here soon to smooth out the puzzle imo.
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Agreed.
 
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