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Reds Tidbits (2007 Season)

Jaxbuck;795925; said:
BOY oh boy. Milton got tagged to the tune of 5 HR's in about a 6 IP stint vs the Pirates yesterday. Nothing too shocking in that except it was their FUCKING HIGH A TEAM!!!!!! :yow1: :yow1: :yow1: :yow1:

The reds have to pay him the 9M no matter what, but if they are serious in what B-cast says about wanting to win they have to DL or cut this guy. He is simply done. Belisle, Sarloos, Livingston, me, you and my 90 year old grandmother can all do as good a job or better at the backend of the rotation.

Yeah, his excuse was that A-ball players just try to tee off on major leaguers and that he couldn't "set them up." That's such a poor excuse that it isn't even funny. Sadly, he says he is healthy. I caught part of the game on the radio yesterday and Marty brought up his conversation with Narron about making Milton the 5th starter. He said Milton isn't flexible enough to work out of the BP when a 5th isn't needed. I honestly think they are trying to work out a deal or hope he straightens out to start the year. But give him 3 bad starts in April and there will be a fan mutiny if they don't call up whoever gets sent out between Belisle and Livingston.

At least it looks like Burton is going to stick. Man, that kid does have a live arm and he was throwing stikes.
 
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My official spring training take:

I've finally got to sit down for an entire week and check out the roster and try to examine, what I think, we should look like. Firstly, over the last year Krivsky has sneakily acquired some nice young talent. Its hard to see it alot of times because we also have the Geritol Gang mixed in. Some of those old guys can still do it but most are only there for moral support. Now without knowing which options these guys have left I'm making this list. How I see these guys:

Dave Weathers: The guy is getting up there and might not last more than 2/3 of this season effectively. What I see in Weathers though is that he can still get outs. He's crafty. Most importantly he's helping Todd Coffey improve and thats the main thing.

Mike Stanton: Have to wait til games actually count to really weigh in on this guy. He seems to lighten up the clubhouse and kind of gel the older guys with the younger ones. Now, on the field he's not much other than a lefty in the bullpen but he also has some wisdom to impart on the youngsters. By the all-star break he shouldn't see the field if Bray is healthy.

Rheal Cormier: Judas fucking Priest! Nothing good can come of him being on the roster. Nothing.

Now if we look at the rest of the staff which are 28 or younger and in some cases alot younger, there's some real promise.

I'll skip Harang and Arroyo although I will say that I think Arroyo has the stuff to win 17-18 games this year and push towards a Cy Young. Most people would say they'd take Harang, but when Bronson's got that "frisbee pitch" working, he's tough to beat. Both guys are rubber armed as well.

The youth and newness of the staff I am really excited about. Lohse can get it done and at times he's pretty tough. I think his mental game is the block right now which could go either way this season. I like him as a 4th starter though.

Bobby Livingston: I really think this guy can be a 3rd starter this season. One, he's left handed. Two, he doesn't give up the long ball like "He Who Must Not Be Named!" Three, the guys 24 years old. Barring injury he could really settle the middle of this staff.

Matt Belisle: As a 5th starter and sometimes long-reliever the guy can be nails. He's got the flexibility and endurance to do either. I like the way he battles on the mound and he is a team player.

Sarloos: I think he is battling Belisle for the same role at #5. I love the fact that he's a sinkerballer at GABP. I agree with Hatteberg when he says the guy has a ball that wont stop moving. Always a good thing.

I won't get into Bailey who we all know cracks this rotation the second he is ready.

Guess, who gets left out of this equation.:roll2:

What we have left is more youth and some blossoming skill.

EZ Ramirez, Billy Bray, Jared Burton, John Coutlangus, Todd Coffey and Gary Majewski. Thats 6 more guys under the age of 28 with only 3 spots to fill. Of this bunch I can see:

Coffey: Closer. He has the pitches. He needs the confidence and attitude. Should be around for a while.

Burton: Wow. This guy has come outta nowhere and has awesome stuff. If Coffey doesn't pan out, this guy could. In the meantime, I see him in short relief.

Bray: When he's healthy I like him as the Lefty closer. Teams heavy on left handed hitters or majority lefty for the ninth will get a real test from him. Not looking at his career numbers in this regard so I don't know his history, just what I can see as possible.

Coutlangus: young and a wild card to the hitters right now who haven't seen him, also left handed.

EZ Ramirez: He's flexible enough to be a starter. I like him in long relief along with Belisle on his week off, and Sarloos (if he doesn't crack the rotation) or Lohse.

Gary Majewski: His skill level was there. What has the undisclosed injury and subsequent time off done to him? A lot of questions still unanswered here.

To start the season here's what I forsee:

SP: Harang, Arroyo, fucking Milton, Lohse, Livingston:
RP: Coffey, Weathers, Stanton, Burton, Sarloos, Bray, Get-real Cormier
Minors or cut: Belisle, Coutlangus, Majewski (possible DL), EZ Ramirez

Who I would like to see there:
SP: Harang, Arroyo, Livingston, Lohse, Belisle
RP: Sarloos, Burton, Bray, Coffey, Weathers, Coutlangus, Ramirez

I say cut or trade for prospects Milton, Cormier, and Stanton. Majewski should start DL at least for a couple weeks.

Always be shopping the long relievers and when Bailey is ready or need due to injury someone else either goes down or gets the axe. There's enough youth here to get this thing stabilized and the right infusion of experience to allow them to develop. By the all-star break this pitching staff needs to be closer to the second choice I've put up here for us to have a remote chance this season. I guess we'll see just how big Krivsky's balls are and how dumb Narron is in a couple of weeks.

I'll look at the lineup a little later. Everyone fire back with your takes on this, I'm interested to hear.
 
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Good stuff bestbuck. I agree with you on all points. but like you said i just dont think narron is smart enough and there is not enough balls up top for this to happen. I am getting pretty close to throwing up just thinking about a whole season of milton pitching. But no matter what happens, at least this will be his last season in a reds uniform!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin:
 
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Jaxbuck;795925; said:
BOY oh boy. Milton got tagged to the tune of 5 HR's in about a 6 IP stint vs the Pirates yesterday. Nothing too shocking in that except it was their FUCKING HIGH A TEAM!!!!!! :yow1: :yow1: :yow1: :yow1:

The reds have to pay him the 9M no matter what, but if they are serious in what B-cast says about wanting to win they have to DL or cut this guy. He is simply done. Belisle, Sarloos, Livingston, me, you and my 90 year old grandmother can all do as good a job or better at the backend of the rotation.

Those are my feelings as well...

Any 2 of those 3 and then the 3rd one in long relief...

Cut Milton or try and deal him for something...Hell a box of baseballs is fine by me...
 
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crazybuckfan40;796440; said:
Those are my feelings as well...

Any 2 of those 3 and then the 3rd one in long relief...

Cut Milton or try and deal him for something...Hell a box of baseballs is fine by me...


Yeah, shit last week all I asked for was an extra jug of kool-aid for the clubhouse.
 
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Heard Nuxie on the radio tonight. He was high on Livingston and Belisle. He basically said that Milton has to get it together soon or be gone. He said what a great guy he is, but that's not enough. He said it will soon be at the point where it doesn't matter how much money you have to eat. Nuxie's take is that right now he knows it and is pressing or as he put it "trying to throw 103 instead of 93." I have to say I'm pulling for the guy to prove everyone wrong, but like everyone else my patience is thin.
 
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Consider this beating the dead horse but...

Yesterday Lohse had another decent outing vs. Philly. He gave up two solo shots but only two more hits in 4.1 and 2 ER with 4K's. Coutlangus comes in with the score tied in the 5th and bases loaded, one out. He then commences to K Utley and Howard back-to-back getting out of the inning in Philly's heart of the order unscathed. Very impressive in my book even for spring training. Coffey offers up his usual scoreless inning after that as well. Then we get to the other "oh shit" pitcher on our staff in Cormier who proceeds to implode into 3 runs and give the game away. Absolutley scary.

Checking the box today: Through 6 innings we're tied up with the Pirates. Harang still looks hittable. Don't know if he's just up there throwing to keep his arm in shape or what but their hitting him to the tune of 10 hits in 5 innings. He didn't walk anyone though which leads me to believe he's not working on pitches just rather throwing gas to get pitches in and have that arm ready for opening day. The brighter note is Victor Santos. Just like everyone else this spring, I totally forgot about him yesterday in my post. Untouched this spring through 14.2 innings! Thats 14.2 innings with 7 hits 3 walks and 10 strike outs. Oh yeah and 0 runs. Whip under 1, 3:1 K/BB rate and an ERA of zero. Hey Milton...:! . Now Santos isnt one in the youth movement but he's dominican and those guys never seem to get old. He's coming back off some rotator cuff injury and pitched well in the winter. As of right now I don't see how they can keep him off the opening day roster. Most of the youngsters I mentioned in the other post do have options. Options- something the Reds seem to have plenty of going into the season, for a change. Now to find someone to figure out the right moves.
 
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Per Narron on the pre-game show, Milton is in the rotation. The only question is whether he will be the #4 or #5, Lohse is the #3 as of today. He danced right past Marty's question about Cormier. I doubt Harang was showing Pitt anything seeing that he will face them next Sunday. Arroyo threw no breaking pitches against Philly last week for the same reason. I'm not worried about Aaron. He got bombed on opening day last year and still had a great season. According to Marty and Thom, Hamilton made a spectacular catch in center that Freel "could not have made." Marty said he is without doubt the best defensive outfielder on the team. Burton closed out the game. He was a bit wild, but worked though the inning which included a dropped fly ball by the LF.
 
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MuckFich06;797542; said:
Per Narron on the pre-game show, Milton is in the rotation. The only question is whether he will be the #4 or #5,

Anyone remember which side of his mouth Bob C was talking out of when he said something about building a winner? It appears we didn't hear the disclaimer about "unless it costs me like 9M a year or something."

This franchise is a fucking disgrace.
 
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Jaxbuck;797637; said:
Anyone remember which side of his mouth Bob C was talking out of when he said something about building a winner? It appears we didn't hear the disclaimer about "unless it costs me like 9M a year or something."

This franchise is a fucking disgrace.

It is never easy for a small market to take a 9Million dollar hit to the pocket...

They will try and ride it out for the beginning of the season and see what happens...

But I think most would like to see a combo of Belisle, Sarloos, Livingston as the #4 and 5...
 
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crazybuckfan40;797641; said:
It is never easy for a small market to take a 9Million dollar hit to the pocket...

They will try and ride it out for the beginning of the season and see what happens...

But I think most would like to see a combo of Belisle, Sarloos, Livingston as the #4 and 5...


They have to pay it no matter what.

If he's not on the team he gets paid and we have a better chance to win.

If he's on the team he gets paid and we have much less chance to win.

Either way he gets paid. The only decision to make was whats best for the teams chances at breaking .500 for the first time in ages.

B Cast's mentor was Lidner...don't forget that.
 
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Reds Spring Training Offense- Long post.

Ok, I'm ready to take a look at what I feel is the Reds weakness this year; the offense.

First of all I don't think the Reds have a lack of talent. I think the Reds have improved themselves defensively quite a bit and because of the defensive changes our offense is going to look different. I understand that.

With 12 pitchers on the roster that leaves 13 position players and considering 8 will start everyday only 5 bench spots left and some guys are going to get left out that might be ready to play.

Outfield- Dunn, Freel, Griffey. I actually like it. We've got speed and power out there. The only problem is the injury bug which will hit like a ton of bricks. Fingers crossed.

Denorfia, Hamilton, Hopper, Stubbs, Bruce. Hamilton is going to make this roster and as we all hope will reach his potential and become the All-Star his God-given ability meant for him to be before he had his troubles. I am optimistic but lets give him at least a year first. Stubbs and Bruce will remain in AAA this season and only one of Denorfia and Hopper will be able to sneak in here barring injury replacements. I'll get into this in a minute.

Infield-Defense up the middle could be awesome! Phillips is a stud and Gonzalez is a wizard with the glove just a little inept with the bat. EdE is hopefully grown out of his problems at 3rd and will remain a cog in this team for the next 5 to 10 years. Hatteberg will give us some modest numbers but his approach to hitting makes the other teams pitching staff cringe. Nothing like a 12 pitch at bat to screw up the pitchers rhythm. Still, the future is Joey Votto and he'll be here at the All-Star break. We will be forced to make a move at that time and Joey will find himself up here. Lets just hope he's ready when the call comes and he stays here for a long, long time. The Shortstops in the minor league system are going to be awesome in a couple of years so we're set.

Catching- I'm one who thinks Ross won't dip much this year. Maybe he won't hit .300 all year or drive in 90 runs but I'd bet on at least .280 and 75 runs with about 20 HR's. Not bad out of your 7-8 hitter. Considering we don't have many R/R power hitters in our entire system, I'll take it. Valentin is a great pinch hitter and he'll spell Ross when he needs it and against some tougher righties; he can also play some first. Keep an eye on Miguel Perez in a year or two.

Now. First of all, please, please, please, DO NOT KEEP 3 CATCHERS AGAIN!!!! I don't agree with a lot of people that Moeller has nothing to contribute but we don't need him nor have the room. He won't supplant Ross and Valentin is more flexible. Sorry Chad but I hope you're on a different roster for some prospects.

Secondly, Juan Castro will make this roster because he's a black hole on defense and he is the epitomy of utility man. If he could only bat .300 everyone would love him. His range isn't what it used to be and his bat is offensive but if I were the owner of this team I would want a guy like Castro around for his intangibles, just my opinion.

Conine is just keeping Votto's spot warm. This also brings up the sore spot for most Reds fans. Conine is old and pretty far past his prime. Why does he need to be on this roster when a guy like Denorfia could be up here? Actually, I'll give my reasons why here.

I'm not sold on Denorfia as much as alot of other fans are due to the fact that I can see his worth, to this team. He won't hit for power. His average should be decent over a full year but who knows. He'll steal some bases but I think Hopper would steal more and who does Denorfia replace when he plays? Freel? Griffey? Dunn? Any of those players would be a dropoff with Denorfia offensively. Hamilton? Not if he plays up to his, dear God, potential. Is Denorfia MLB material, yes. Not for the Cincinnati Reds, at least as long as Freel is here. The biggest reason.............. Jerry Narron.

Narron is by all accounts a great locker room manager. His in game management is shit. There I said it. Narron would be better suited in the American League where everyone hits homeruns and the last team batting wins alot, sound familiar? This team is not built for home runs yet thats the type of ball we play. Denorfia would do well on a team built to manufacture runs and play good defense. Tony Larussa, Lou Piniella, Jim Leyland. Coaches that manage in situations would better use Denorfia. We've made a change to the defense so who knows maybe we are trying to go the defense first, pitch great and manufacture runs route. I doubt it.

Our roster is looking like this at the moment.

Dunn, Freel, Griffey, Hamilton, Ross, Valentin, Hatteberg, Phillips, Gonzalez, Encarnacion. Thats 10. With 3 spots left Castro gets one for sure. Conine is probably going to get one that leaves one left. Here is where we need to make the right decision. If Moeller gets the final roster spot we're in deep shit, period. Maybe Denorfia would get the last spot. Maybe Hopper. Hell maybe another pitcher, just don't let it be a catcher. To start the season I say put Denorfia on the roster and at least let him pinch run late in a game or play later innings for defensive substitution. Otherwise, trade him. On days where Griff needs a break why not go with the faster more defensive lineup? Hell I'd like to see this once in a while just to mess other teams up.

2B Freel
CF Denorfia
RF Hamilton
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn
SS Phillips
1B Hatteberg
C Ross

Not much power in that lineup but the speed is scary! Hell Jerry, shake it up once in a while. He could even put Dunn at first once in a while and leave Freel in the outfield. Lets see teams hit the ball in the gap with this outfield- Denorfia, Freel, Hamilton. Good Luck. Matter of fact when Milton's pitching this should be the outfield considering all the gopher balls he's going to give up. :smash:

We're going to have to do some unconventional things this season to score runs. I just don't think Narron is the guy to do it.
 
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SARASOTA, Fla. - Reds manager Jerry Narron further discussed the possibility that Eric Milton will be moved to the fifth starter's spot.

Per the Enquirer

Among other news and notes is one sure to make posters on this site rest a little easier. Of course, it is far from cutting him loose, but may be a step in that direction.



"Kyle Lohse is going to be the third starter," Narron said. "It's a matter of whether Eric Milton is the fourth or fifth starter."

Milton has struggled this spring, while the candidates for the fifth spot - Matt Belisle, Bobby Livingston and Kirk Saarloos - have pitched well.

Putting Milton in the fifth spot would mean he'd make fewer starts in April because of the three days off in the month.

The first start for the fifth starter falls on April 8.

It will be between the second turns of Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo.

That would put a left-hander (Milton) between the two right-handers.

Edit: I somehow missed MuchFinch's earlier report of the Narron interview.
 
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Okinawa's#1Buck;797890; said:
SARASOTA, Fla. - Reds manager Jerry Narron further discussed the possibility that Eric Milton will be moved to the fifth starter's spot.

Per the Enquirer

Among other news and notes is one sure to make posters on this site rest a little easier. Of course, it is far from cutting him loose, but may be a step in that direction.



"Kyle Lohse is going to be the third starter," Narron said. "It's a matter of whether Eric Milton is the fourth or fifth starter."

Milton has struggled this spring, while the candidates for the fifth spot - Matt Belisle, Bobby Livingston and Kirk Saarloos - have pitched well.

Putting Milton in the fifth spot would mean he'd make fewer starts in April because of the three days off in the month.

The first start for the fifth starter falls on April 8.

It will be between the second turns of Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo.

That would put a left-hander (Milton) between the two right-handers.

WOOOHOOOOO!!!! Hey its a step in the right direction.
 
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Jaxbuck;797637; said:
Anyone remember which side of his mouth Bob C was talking out of when he said something about building a winner? It appears we didn't hear the disclaimer about "unless it costs me like 9M a year or something."

This franchise is a fucking disgrace.


In all honesty, I would have been/would be totally shocked if they just dumped Milton. I realize he has been beat around pretty bad this spring, but it is spring training and I don't expect everyone to be in mid-season form. Obviously, there is concern in the organization and as Marty said yesterday, you can bet there are serious discussions going on at all levels about who is going to make the opening day roster. I think Milton sticks for several reasons. The main one being that Livingston and Belisle have yet to prove that they can pitch successfully in the big leagues on a consistent basis. Yes, they have both been outstanding in spring training, but they are only pitching 3-5 innings at a time. When they start stretching it past 5, things can change. Neither of these guys is the next Nolan Ryan. Both have options. Milton doesn't. (I know, he's no Nolan Ryan either). Over the course of any big league season, guys are going to get hurt. I like having a Belisle or Livingston ready to go to replace an injured guy. If Milton gets bombed throughout April, then he needs to be sent packing. Just not yet. In other words, I don't think it's all about the money.
 
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