Jaxbuck;905160; said:
Change the names and the same stuff was said of AK, Dunn, FeLo and Pokey when they were still prospects. The new guys will be fine, just like the guys that went before them were fine. They all share the same problem however, none of them can pitch.
Those names you are listing as young hopefuls in the pen are pure dreck. Homer is at least 2 years away from being MLB ready, let alone a stud.
How many times was it said this past off season that WK's plan was too long on hope that a few rookies would not only pan out but contribute significantly? How many times was it pointed out that not all of them will make it or be the studs everyone hopes for? Scary that many fans can see this stuff but a MLB GM and his staff cannot.
If you are going to compete via a youth movement you have to sell off everything of value at the MLB level and stock up the minors well beyond what we have. They failed to do so when they had the chance and it still needs to be done.
The FO has no vision, no plan and seems content to be "competitive" and hope the kids pan out. Untill that changes the players themselves can come and go, its just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
I understand where you are coming from...But for a couple reasons I feel this time around could be different...
First we already have an ace of the staff on our roster, a cy young type guy...
We have 3 very good young players that could all be all-star types with BPhil, Hamilton, and EE(hopefully they stop pissing around with his progression)...
I don't think Keppinger is a guy that you put into the mix of potential all-stars and right now he is hot, but he is just a player, and I wouldnt mind if he manned the SS position for a couple years if we could dump Gonzo...
Then we have Jay Bruce who is not just a top prospect, but he will be the #1 prospect in all of baseball after this season...He has went thru 3 levels of the minors this year and not missed a beat at anyone...He is another guy that is a potential all star, and could put up numbers equal or better to Dunn in terms of producing runs, and hit for average and maybe not get on base as much as Dunn, but his walk totals have started to increase...He also has a cannon for an arm so to go along with Hamilton in the outfield not many teams will be running on them two...
Then you got Votto who has had his ups and downs, but his power numbers have started to increase some, and he was as an all star in AAA and I think he could be a very solid contributor especially whe you have guys like Bruce, Hamilton, Phillips, EE, around him producing runs as well...
The spots you have left open are C, and 1 OF spot...I am all for a guy that will get on base, steal bases, and do the little things with the bat to man that other outfield position as along as they are also great on defense...You have guys like Dickerson, Dorn, or maybe Stubbs that are all in the minors that could possibly man that spot, and keep in mind that outfileders are probably the easiest position to be able to pick up solid contributors...
As for Catcher I still like Ross, b/c of what he brings on defense...If he could just hit about 240 with his homeruns that he hits, he would be a great fit...
Then for the bench we have guys like Hopper, Freel maybe Hatte, Cantu, Javy...
IMO that is a solid team right there...Good defensivley, and should be able to put up very good offensive numbers...
The main questions for this to happen are what do we do with Dunn, Griffey, and Gonzo...I see this team more 2 years down the road then next year...
Then for the pitching where is where we really disagree...
I believe we agree on Harang...Stud/Cy Young candidate...
We disagree some on Bronson, I understand he is not an ace, and not even a number 2 guy, but he has more good outings than bad outings, and I think that a lot of it has to do with his horrible run support, and the fact he knows who is closing the game behind him...
Then there is a fall off, and we agree there, but IMO this is where a glass half full guy can look and make a positive light out of it...
Bailey - He has the fastball, and a curve...He is working on the changeup...Once he throws the latter 2 for strikes, he will take over the number 2 spot behind Harang...He needs to work on control, and he has all offseason and the reast of this season to do so...Remember he has been throwing with a tweaked groin since about April...He is a guy that can sit at about 95 once he works on his stamina and arm strength and hit 97 at times...Could he be a flop yes, might he take 2 years to be the guy he can be, yes, but you have to admit that there arent many other pitching prospects that you would take over Bailey right now...
Cueto - He is a guy that is probably a late call up next year or 2009 at the beginning of the season, but he has been putting up some crazy k numbers at AAA...He has an all around arsenol and seems to know how to pitch, moreso than Bailey, but Bailey has more potential...The knock on him is his size, he is not a big guy, but look at it this way...Many teams would be rushing him as their number one pitching prospect, we have him as our number 2 pitching prospect...Good problem to have...
Then you have a combo of guys like Livingston, Dumatrait, The Lizard, Belisle, Maloney, etc....
4 of these guys have throw at the major league level this year and before...IMO I think that Livingston has solid stuff, he doesnt miss a lot of bats, but has stuff to be a #4 or #5...Same can be said for The Lizard, he was another guy that got a raw deal from Narron...Then you have Dumatrait who I have not been impressed with, is another guy that doesnt miss bats, but he has had a solid season at AAA, maybe he will get it in the next couple years, if not we have other options that will overtake him...
Then you have Belisle who had some very good outings earlier in the season, and IMO has some solid stuff, he is a guy that misses bats, just seems to struggle mightly with guys on base and out of the stretch...I still believe that he has potential to fill one of the rotation spots...
Then Maloney who I have been impressed with, he is 3 in K's in all of AA...only about 9 or so behind the guy that has the most...He is a crafty lefty, and with some hard throwing righties like Bailey, harang(sneaky fast), soft tossing righty like Arroyo, he would fit in nice at the back of the rotation, especially if he can move up the ladder and continue to miss the amount of bats that he has been...
This list doesnt include the other pitchers in the minors, who give us depth for years to come...We should also be able to add a player or two to this list next season as we will have an early draft pick due to our season this year...
I have been thru the pen before, We have young guys with potential, it is really the guys like Stanton, Santos, Sarloos, that have killed us this year...Add Coffey to that list as well...
Guys like Cooter, Bray, Salmon, Burton have shown well IMO...The problem is most of these guys are pitching in over their heads, b/c they are in roles where they should not have to be, but with guys like Burton and Cooter, if they cut down on their walks they have very respectful numbers...Then also throw in some guys in the minors like Pelland and McBeth and IMO we have some good young arms...
This is where I would love for WK to spend the money on a top notch closer or maybe a young set up man that could be a closer...Must be a smart pick up tho...
So overall I think the organization needs to figure out where guys like Weathers, Griffey, Dunn, Gonzo etc. maybe trade for parts, or if they lose them make smart draft picks to go to our ever improving minors leagues which is the best it has probably ever been, and by the year 2009 I see this team competing for the division title for a solid stretch of years...I also am not a WK hater like some...
Another thing that will help is a solid manager that knows what is going on...The Tigers were in our boat a couple years ago, and now look at them...Verlander who was their ace type young guy, came up and struggled at first, but now look at him...If the chips fall in to place, GABP will be filled and we will have a winner on the field...
