Red River Recruiting

[billmac91]

what makes him any different. pretty much everybody of "notoriety" on this board started at as just another schlub on a message board. a ton of money and shady connections doesn't make him any less of a douche than those whack jobs on MGB. [censored]......Tom Beaver is another perfect example.

If he were any better, he wouldn't have written an article that sounds like a 10 year old defending his dad's favorite team just because it's his dad's favorite team.

Because I don't have any access to the university or players. That guy has personally interviewed JaMarkus before. That guy has personally interviewed Mack Brown before.

That guy likely sells memebrships that people buy for his inside perspective/information on the program.

If you dislike his writing style, fine. But I'd expect a similar article from any (Rivals/Scout/Bucknuts) tOSU site in the event a recruit and parent trashed tOSU and accused it of recruiting violations while not substantiating any of it.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

on his trip to Dallas, his mom was his chaperone and he attended the party without any coaches or players there, as the team was on its way back to Austin immediately following the game.

I'd like to know why his mom didn't drive him home after the game? Who'd he go to the party with? Was it planned for JaMarkus to attend thi sparty with other recruits?

All legit questions....and it could be it was planned for the recruits to go to the game with a chaperone/parent, and after try and get them to a wild-ass party to impress them. I have no idea, but if they're going to make Texas look bad for having fans that offer drugs and alcohol to a 17 year old, they should answer why he was there in the first place when his mother was in Dallas with him.

These are legit questions, and the NYT certainly leaves a lot to be desired in detailing this particular instance.

Even if we assume that the kid had been 'accidentally' led to this party by unrelated parties, it still does not absolve Mack Brown and other coaches of their responsibility to monitor what goes on during on-campus visits. The behaviors exhibited by hosts who are most often current players are much more systematic and prevalence than the isolated incident of a high roller party in Dallas.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Because I don't have any access to the university or players. That guy has personally interviewed JaMarkus before. That guy has personally interviewed Mack Brown before.

That guy likely sells memebrships that people buy for his inside perspective/information on the program.

If you dislike his writing style, fine. But I'd expect a similar article from any (Rivals/Scout/Bucknuts) tOSU site in the event a recruit and parent trashed tOSU and accused it of recruiting violations while not substantiating any of it.

and it would be equally shitty. talking to a recruit doesn't make them any better than the idiots who talk all day about SEC SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED and how Pryor went to OSU because he gets to drive 8 rolls royces at the same time.

the article sounded like something I would read on a message board from a fanatic who doesn't give a shit about the truth....he just wants to cover things up to make his favorite football team look clean. I'm sure I could write an article with 20 different reasons why Ohio State didn't lose to Florida, there were just all these extra things like media hype and TG's injury and the sun being in our eyes all game.......it wasn't really our fault. it would read exactly like what that guy wrote. because he wrote it as a fan.

 

[jwinslow]

Because I don't have any access to the university or players. That guy has personally interviewed JaMarkus before. That guy has personally interviewed Mack Brown before.

This is not a rare attribute on the scout/rivals networks... journalistic ability is.

That guy likely sells memebrships that people buy for his inside perspective/information on the program.

I'm not sure that's an endorsement.

If you dislike his writing style, fine.

Precisely. It cheapened his response.

 

[billmac91]

and it would be equally [censored]ty. talking to a recruit doesn't make them any better than the idiots who talk all day about SEC SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED and how Pryor went to OSU because he gets to drive 8 rolls royces at the same time.

the article sounded like something I would read on a message board from a fanatic who doesn't give a [censored] about the truth....he just wants to cover things up to make his favorite football team look clean. I'm sure I could write an article with 20 different reasons why Ohio State didn't lose to Florida, there were just all these extra things like media hype and TG's injury and the sun being in our eyes all game.......it wasn't really our fault. it would read exactly like what that guy wrote. because he wrote it as a fan.

I don't know how else he should approach it?? He's taking to task statements that they aren't backing up, or haven't yet backed up. Is he suppossed to have all of their answers?


from orangeblood article:

Here's the deal and we need to get this out on the table - either these are flat out lies or these are NCAA violations. There's very little wiggle room. If the mom is going to make these kinds of public accusations, she needs to provide names and details. Nothing less than that is acceptable.

The University of Texas and Mack Brown are not only committed to running straight-line programs, but they are proud of their commitment to doing things the right way. If something happened, it needs to be reported and the facts need to be exposed.

What can absolutely not happen is for McFarland's mom to open up Pandora's Box and think she can walk away without an explanation. Also, even though the article suggests that the coaches had zero involvement in these "offers," she must know that it doesn't make it any less illegal.

Does he write like he's a message board poster, ya probably. His point is still well taken. And he seems to be approcoaching it fairly. I just don't think he should be getting slammed for defending his school. He's asking the right questions, and even offers a forum for JaMarkus, his mother, and the writer of the piece for an hour in January.

I don't recall, but I'd imagine there were some defensive pieces towards ESPN and MoC several years ago. And I'd imagine rival schools blasted the pieces for our writers having their heads in the sand and defending a rogue program.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxsqCiOO3k&feature=related"]YouTube - A Whale's Vagina[/ame]

 

[generaladm]

he sounded like your average douche bag fan on a message board.....because that's exactly what he is. no offense to anybody here, but I would be flat out embarassed if anybody outside of like 4 guys on this board published an article on behalf of the Ohio State fan base. it sounded to me like the Texas version of AlexBooneFan.

I tend to side with BN27's assessment here, Ketchum did bring up some very valid points in his rebuttal to the NYT article, but it was so poorly written that it just came across as a homer acting like a whiny little bitch. The tone and structure of the "article" was exactly what I would expect from a slightly above average message board denizen who got pissed off and typed an emotionally driven response without re-reading it. I know I've started posts that had the same feel as that, and decided to scrap it and start over again after giving it a once over. I have also seen similar posts on BP that got ripped to shreds by multiple members, based on the low quality of writing and logic, regardless of whether they agreed with the sentiment. One thing I would propose is, while there may not be many raw posts on BP that would be acceptable as an article for public consumption outside of this forum, I do believe that there are more than a few BP posters who have the intellectual capacity to understand the difference between the two, and could fashion a more respectable effort than Mr. Ketchum. This was my first taste of that board, but if that article is representative of what it's founder considers quality, I can't imagine that there is much of any worth there.

FWIW, I think UT generally runs a respectable program, and that if the recount of Coach Brown's statements are true, they were probably meant as a joke, or otherwise taken out of context. I'd like to hear some opinions from our visiting UT fans.

 

[osu_edu]

the article sounded like something I would read on a message board from a fanatic who doesn't give a shit about the truth....he just wants to cover things up to make his favorite football team look clean. I'm sure I could write an article with 20 different reasons why Ohio State didn't lose to Florida, there were just all these extra things like media hype and TG's injury and the sun being in our eyes all game.......it wasn't really our fault. it would read exactly like what that guy wrote. because he wrote it as a fan.

This is not a rare attribute on the scout/rivals networks... journalistic ability is

Does he write like he's a message board poster, ya probably. His point is still well taken. And he seems to be approcoaching it fairly. I just don't think he should be getting slammed for defending his school. He's asking the right questions, and even offers a forum for JaMarkus, his mother, and the writer of the piece for an hour in January.

I agree with Billmac.

I thought this thread is about the nature of Jamarcus' recruitment and allegations spurned by the original NY Time article. Why are we so concerned about the writing ability and/or style of either article? IMO, the OB writer can have a 4 year-old writing ability, and it still would not change the fact that the Time article is heavily one sided and lack of objective evidence.

:osu2:

osu.edu ROCKS!!!

 

[BuckeyeBill]

I don't have any problem with the NYT writing on the recruiting antics going on around the country. I agree it rises to the level of being scandalous. But why make a point of singling out a specific institution unless its behavior is far outside the norm? I believe these activities are going on with Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, LSU, USC, and yes, even tOSU. I would venture to say, to one degree or another, they're going on at nearly every major D-1 school around the country. And with what are likely rare exceptions, I do not believe those schools endorse those activities or encourage them. So, again I ask, why single out one school? They did much the same thing with us during the MoC debacle. While their source was pretty severely discredited, I have no doubt that kids are often given "help" to maintain their grades. With the enormous resources of the NYT, you would think they might target a wider segment of college football rather than unfairly blasting one school.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

I don't have any problem with the NYT writing on the recruiting antics going on around the country. I agree it rises to the level of being scandalous. But why make a point of singling out a specific institution unless its behavior is far outside the norm?

The NYT article does in fact cite questionable behaviors at each of the institutions that the prospect visited, not just at UT.

 

[osu_edu]

The NYT article does in fact cite questionable behaviors at each of the institutions that the prospect visited, not just at UT.

well, then, please allow me to ask you this: why was TIME's article written in a way to make Oklahoma's "questionable behavior" sound more acceptable and legal than that of Texas and USC in this incident? (see quote from the Time article below)

He compared that with a house party hosted by a sorority at Oklahoma. “Drinks were plentiful, but not to the extent they were” at the Dallas party, he wrote. “Some people were tipsy, but in control of themselves.” He described the atmosphere as pleasant and added: “Some people who attend the University of Oklahoma seem to represent different values than some people who attend the University of Texas.”

as much as some respectable posters here try to discredit the rebutal article by Orangeblood.com due to the writer's ability to write, i believe he raised an excellent question.

..appears to be a concerted effort by the writer to portray Oklahoma as well as possible, while making the other schools and coaches in McFarland's recruitment look bad. I don't know whether it has anything to do with the fact that the writer is apparently an Oklahoma native and focuses quite a bit of attention towards writing about the Sooner program, but it is noteworthy.

For instance, in what appears to be a description about how lavish and wild the recruitment had been:

a) Oklahoma is associated with his visit to home of the school president.
b) USC gets a hummer limo reference.
c) Texas is associated by "free alcohol, drugs and young women taking off their clothes"

This is a pattern that will pop up in this article quite a bit throughout and at no point are the details of any recruiting efforts (outside of OU) made by any of the schools towards the McFarland's academics needs reported.

If the Texas/LSU/USC coaching staffs did anything similar, we aren't made aware of it. For instance, Texas sets up player panels and visits with various deans/academic advisors for every prospect that visits the school on an official visit, but none of that is mentioned in this narrative.

Why is that?

 

[osugrad21]

Rivals Free

1) MCFARLAND RESPONDS

 

[billmac91]

Rivals Free

It's ok, he only spiced a few things up for the story. A little embelishment never hurts anyone....

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

well, then, please allow me to ask you this: why was TIME's article written in a way to make Oklahoma's "questionable behavior" sound more acceptable and legal than that of Texas and USC in this incident? (see quote from the Time article below)

Well I don't find Oklahoma's sorority party any less inappropriate than USC's limo. But if that how it came across to you, perhaps it was how the recruit presented the story to the TIMES?

It's one thing to question the factuality of a story, but it's another to draw conclusions on the intent of the writer based on the facts presented in the story. It's entirely arbitrary to question the writer's intent without showing that he manipulated the facts.

 

[billmac91]

Well I don't find Oklahoma's sorority party any less inappropriate than USC's limo. But if that how it came across to you, perhaps it was how the recruit presented the story to the TIMES?

It's one thing to question the factuality of a story, but it's another to draw conclusions on the intent of the writer based on the facts presented in the story. It's entirely arbitrary to question the writer's intent without showing that he manipulated the facts.

I wonder who asked McFarland to embelish and fabricate parts of his story??

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

I wonder who asked McFarland to embelish and fabricate parts of his story??

There's little reason to suspect that anyone asked him to embellish the story. It was probably either him making up a story about naked girls and drugs to impress classmates or that the story was real but he just doesn't want to deal with the possibilities of an NCAA investigation.