Recruiting around the Big Ten

[jwinslow]

It's not just class size.

OSU 04 ***** 11 **** 10 *** ....... with a 5th ***** in Diggs?
U-M 01 ***** 14 **** 10 ***
Neb 00 ***** 03 **** 11 *** 03 **

How it pans out remains to be seen, but Nebraska did not close well.

 

[Muck]

Hey! My former Buckeye cheerleader wife who used to regularly attend the private parties at Woody's cabin says she wants to know YOUR Buckeye background/qualifications!

I had a grandfather who played for Paul Brown and the first game I remember attending at Ohio Stadium consisted of standing on the sidelines (well the track really) while they demolished Sparty to open the '76 season.

It's amazing how large those 70's players were to a 5 y/o.

Meaningless anecdotes aside...I was referring to the Nebraska 'buying equity' period.

(...and meandering into an off topic tangent...anyone see the current Missouri 'insider' claim that they turned down Big Ten membership because they felt slighted by the requirement to buy their way into the BTN?...)

 

[DallasHusker]

It's not just class size.

OSU 04 ***** 11 **** 10 *** ....... with a 5th ***** in Diggs?
U-M 01 ***** 14 **** 10 ***
Neb 00 ***** 03 **** 11 *** 03 **

How it pans out remains to be seen, but Nebraska did not close well.

Hmm, who's numbers are those? They're way different than Rivals. According to Rivals:

OSU 2***** 14**** 9*** Star Ave: 3.72
UM 2***** 10**** 13*** Star Ave: 3.56
Nebr 0***** 6**** 11*** Star Ave: 3.35

In terms of star rankings, OSU was #5, UM #9 and Nebr # 19. While there's no way of making any kind of sensible case that our class was as good as the other two, the differences are not THAT large, I'd say.

And as you say, how it pans out remains to be seen. See: Texas who has had a Top 10 class (and usually Top 5) for many years running and finished 12-12 over the last 2 years.

 

[DallasHusker]

I had a grandfather who played for Paul Brown and the first game I remember attending at Ohio Stadium consisted of standing on the sidelines (well the track really) while they demolished Sparty to open the '76 season.

It's amazing how large those 70's players were to a 5 y/o.

Meaning anecdotes aside...I was referring to the Nebraska 'buying equity' period.

(...and meandering into an off topic tangent...anyone see the current Missouri 'insider' claim that they turned down Big Ten membership because they felt slighted by the requirement to buy their way into the BTN?...)

:) Its all good. Didn't realize you were referring to the "buying equity" period, I'll admit.

If anyone BELIEVES that Missouri was invited and turned it down - for ANY reason... I have a bridge in San Francisco I want to sell them.

 

[Buckeye86]

It's no secret that Scout is kinder to Midwest recruits while Rivals ratings are weighted heavily in the southern direction.

 

[jwinslow]

And as you say, how it pans out remains to be seen. See: Texas who has had a Top 10 class (and usually Top 5) for many years running and finished 12-12 over the last 2 years.

Stars don't prevent mediocrity. Failure is a huge part of recruiting.

Five stars just fail quite a bit less than 4 stars, and even less than 3 stars.

It's no secret that Scout is kinder to Midwest recruits while Rivals ratings are weighted heavily in the southern direction.

Correction: Rivals is an absolute joke when it comes to the midwest, particularly Bobby Burton.

ESPN is even worse, but then no one who knows recruiting ever confused them with a competent recruiting service.

 

[jwinslow]

Let's put aside the consistent southern bias of Rivals for a second...

Hmm, who's numbers are those? They're way different than Rivals. According to Rivals:

OSU 2***** 14**** 9*** Star Ave: 3.72
UM 2***** 10**** 13*** Star Ave: 3.56
Nebr 0***** 6**** 11*** Star Ave: 3.35

So UM had twice as many 4+ stars and OSU fell just short of 3x.

I'm not sure how that shows the classes as similar. Nebraska did not have a single player in the Rivals100.

 

[DallasHusker]

It's no secret that Scout is kinder to Midwest recruits while Rivals ratings are weighted heavily in the southern direction.

Rivals & 247sports seem to be pretty close on most recruits & rankings. Scout & ESPN seem to be all over the map. I've heard the midwest vs south bias claims before, but I'm also seeing more and more that Rivals is looked at as the most authoritative, with 247sports the up and coming service, and Scout being discounted more and more. Too bad (IMHO of course) that BTN uses Scout as their primary recruiting source.

 

[DallasHusker]

So UM had twice as many 4+ stars and OSU fell just short of 3x.

Yes, and as I've pointed out, both UM and OSU had classes with 1.5 times as many recruits. Factor that in, and again its closer than your numbers would argue. Again, I'm not claiming that our class was as good as yours, but I think we're a solid #3 in the conference, as Rivals has us.

 

[jwinslow]

Rivals & 247sports seem to be pretty close on most recruits & rankings. Scout & ESPN seem to be all over the map. I've heard the midwest vs south bias claims before, but I'm also seeing more and more that Rivals is looked at as the most authoritative, with 247sports the up and coming service, and Scout being discounted more and more. Too bad (IMHO of course) that BTN uses Scout as their primary recruiting source.

Ohio is a top-5 talent state for college talent.

Rivals flat out ignores their Ohio employees entirely when it comes to rankings, which leads to blatantly bad rankings by national "gurus" who watch a few clips and overrule any local scouting. You know, actually watching the kid wearing pads, not just playing flag football (Latwan Anderson).

See: Mike Adams, Johnny Simon and countless others.

Look at the 2010 list. Five stars all over the midwest. Why? Because Hicks, Anderson, Prater, Ware, Henderson, Floyd were all heading south.

Now look at the 2011 list. There was only one five star. Where was he headed? Alabama.

2012 was an unusually fond set of rankings for Ohio & Rivals.

This is more about not covering the state properly than destination bias, but it certainly has been interesting lately.

...

someone kindly link him to the Mike Adams, Johnny Simon nonsense with Bobby Burton. They're on BP somewhere, I've gotta run.

 

[DallasHusker]

Ohio is a top-5 talent state for college talent.

Rivals flat out ignores their Ohio employees entirely when it comes to rankings, which leads to blatantly bad rankings by national "gurus" who watch a few clips and overrule any local scouting. You know, actually watching the kid wearing pads, not just playing flag football (Latwan Anderson).

See: Mike Adams, Johnny Simon and countless others.

Look at the 2010 list. Five stars all over the midwest. Why? Because Hicks, Anderson, Prater, Ware, Henderson, Floyd were all heading south.

Now look at the 2011 list. There was only one five star. Where was he headed? Alabama.


...

someone kindly link him to the Mike Adams, Johnny Simon nonsense with Bobby Burton. They're on BP somewhere, I've gotta run.

I'm sure there have been ridiculous rankings from all the services that can be pointed to. After all, this is not a very exact "science" at all.

So, honest curiosity - which service do you think "gets it right" if any of them do? I'm curious if you think Scout is superior, because that would fly in the face of what I see/hear on lots of different boards/forums. Scout has us as #50, and #9 in the B1G, which I think is completely ludicrous.

 

[Onebuckfan]

Next year will be definitive in the rankings..whoever UFM offers will be 5 stars then go from there.

 

[Muck]

:) Its all good. Didn't realize you were referring to the "buying equity" period, I'll admit.

Hey you're the new kids on the block...you're gonna get ribbed for awhile.

Think of the alternative, you could be Missouri and have the B1G flat out point at you and laugh.

Scout has us as #50, and #9 in the B1G, which I think is completely ludicrous.

#7 in the B1G

That has more to do with how Scout totals the points than anything. Iowa, Northwestern & PSU are only ahead of UNL because they have more bodies.

FWIW I don't remember the name of the threads the discussion about Burton & Adams came up in but I what I do remember is that Bobby Burton claimed that Mike Adams 'didn't block anybody' in the games tapes he had seen. When called out by posters who had seen Adams play many times in person what games he was referring to Burton ignored them, started deleting posts & banning anyone who questioned him on it.

I also recall that not being the first time he tried to cover his tracks after being exposed as being full of "it".

At least one of the guys who covered the midwest (Mike Farrel or Jeremy Crabtree I think) was also on the record saying that Burton would flat out ignore their evaluations on midwest players in order to pump up those in the SE & (especially) Texas.

 

[jwinslow]

I do not think anyone gets it truly right, but in my experience they are much more involved in covering, scouting and evaluating midwest talent, particularly around us.

My guess is that Rivals might cover the state a lot better if they had better numbers to serve. Rivals is way behind in subscribers and coverage of OSU and UM recruits and teams. They may even be third behind Bucknuts. I do not know the PSU sites as well but scout seems to be much larger.

The bobby burton fiascos in consecutive years really opened my eyes to how they rank kids in the midwest. There will always be differences of opinion from amateurs commenting on the targets of college staffs. They should not let one guy defy an entire network, especially when said network of scouts loves a prospect and just nominated him as a potential five star. Coming along and declaring that you - aka bobby burton - watched two full games and never saw him block anyone is absurd.


I am not sure that Nebraska's class should be ninth. I do not think that a 3-6 man haul of non 3 stars represents a quality class, but I know very little about them individually. I think guys like peat were needed down the stretch to be a third quality class.

 

[jwinslow]

Hey you're the new kids on the block...you're gonna get ribbed for awhile.

Think of the alternative, you could be Missouri and have the B1G flat out point at you and laugh.

#7 in the B1G

That has more to do with how Scout totals the points than anything. Iowa, Northwestern & PSU are only ahead of UNL because they have more bodies.

FWIW I don't remember the name of the threads the discussion about Burton & Adams came up in but I what I do remember is that Bobby Burton claimed that Mike Adams 'didn't block anybody' in the games tapes he had seen. When called out by posters who had seen Adams play many times in person what games he was referring to Burton ignored them, started deleting posts & banning anyone who questioned him on it.

I also recall that not being the first time he tried to cover his tracks after being exposed as being full of shit.

At least one of the guys who covered the midwest have (Mike Farrel or Jeremy Crabtree I think) was also on the record saying that Burton would flat out ignore their evaluations on midwest players in order to pump up those in the SE & (especially) Texas.

Someone do an advanced search by post for burton with osubucks22 as tge username.

When mike adams dominated all week in San Antonio, Burton's absurd excuses and #19 OT ranking was finally history.