• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

RB Brandon "Zoom" Saine (official thread)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
First of all, Saine didn't average 5 ypc, but instead 4.45 ypc. And take away that oops-execuse-me-for-bouncing-it-outside-on-the-last-play-of-the-game 37-yard TD run at Washington, his average drops to 3.90 ypc.
Click to expand...
I've never understood your fascination with taking away plays to fit your argument. If I take away Mo's 27 yarder vs a non-FCS opponent, his average drops to 3.3. :so:
If Mo gets decent blocking, he won't be averaging 3.56 ypc.
Click to expand...
So do the OL just not like blocking for Mo? And when the blocking improves, won't Brandon benefit as well? I don't see how the hypothetical helps Mo catch up.
His relatively low YPC was due more to the situations he played and poor blocking than to his ability. I don't know how many times he took a handoff with 2-3 defenders aleady in the backfield.
Click to expand...
If Mo is #2 & Saine #3, then Saine was faced with equal to worse situations for carries... unless there was some other reason Mo had the market cornered on poor blocking.
 
Upvote 0
While I would be quite surprised to see Senior Mo Wells passed on the official depth charts on a JT team, the argument becomes less meaningful when you consider that they are vying for the #2 spot behind a bona fide Heisman candidate.

Who carries most off the bench in a particular game has a lot to do with health (which we never know the details of) and game plan. These are much larger issues for subs than starters because subs are often used to finesse game plans. JT may also mix things up based on practice performance as a motivational factor.

For example, against Illinois Mo carried 6 times - Saine 0. Against UM it was Saine 9 and Mo 1. Against LSU neither carried the ball.

And for the Saine lovers (of which I am one) the argument that Mo went from 6 carries to 1 because of performance doesn't wash. He averaged 5 YPC vs. Illinois while Saine had 2.2 vs. UM.

Now add Herron to the mix and you wont find me putting any money on the "2nd most carries" vBet.
 
Upvote 0
Oh8ch;1135091; said:
And for the Saine lovers (of which I am one) the argument that Mo went from 6 carries to 1 because of performance doesn't wash. He averaged 5 YPC vs. Illinois while Saine had 2.2 vs. UM.
Click to expand...
You could make the argument for the Kent St. game though. Mo averaged 0.8 vs them while Saine averaged 7.7.
 
Upvote 0
Oh8ch said:
While I would be quite surprised to see Senior Mo Wells passed on the official depth charts on a JT team, the argument becomes less meaningful when you consider that they are vying for the #2 spot behind a bona fide Heisman candidate.

Who carries most off the bench in a particular game has a lot to do with health (which we never know the details of) and game plan. These are much larger issues for subs than starters because subs are often used to finesse game plans. JT may also mix things up based on practice performance as a motivational factor.

For example, against Illinois Mo carried 6 times - Saine 0. Against UM it was Saine 9 and Mo 1. Against LSU neither carried the ball.

And for the Saine lovers (of which I am one) the argument that Mo went from 6 carries to 1 because of performance doesn't wash. He averaged 5 YPC vs. Illinois while Saine had 2.2 vs. UM.

Now add Herron to the mix and you wont find me putting any money on the "2nd most carries" vBet.
Click to expand...
to clarify, i think you are saying that these players will be used as role players to aid the teams game plan in winning behind a bona fide superstar barring injury to the player.

to an underrated extent at a level that ohio state plays at football is a game of match ups and executing on strengths, weakness and opportunities. if one thing i have learned about jim tressel and his staff is they are willing to play nearly anyone in any situation if they feel it will help them win the game. tank whaley, tyree at um, bobby carpenter as a true frosh and a bunch of others come to mind. players and schemes will be used which the staff feels give the teams the best chances to reach their goals...
 
Upvote 0
You could make the argument for the Kent St. game though. Mo averaged 0.8 vs them while Saine averaged 7.7.
Click to expand...

You could - but you would be wrong.

That was a 48-3 rout. Saine carried the ball the first three plays of the 4th quarter for 45 yards. He was then replaced by Marcus Williams. Mo clearly wasn't effective in that game but the timing of their carries was certainly not "apples and apples".

And the next week vs MSU Mo carried 9 times to Saine's 3. So if the question is "who was JT's number 2 back" both games support the Mo Wells case.



And BTW - if you drop the KSU rout from Saine's season stats, he averages 3.8 YPC for the season.

I'm still a Saine fan - but I'm also an accountant. The numbers say whatever you like if you torture them a little.
 
Upvote 0
jimotis4heisman;1135112; said:
to clarify, i think you are saying that these players will be used as role players to aid the teams game plan in winning behind a bona fide superstar barring injury to the player.

to an underrated extent at a level that ohio state plays at football is a game of match ups and executing on strengths, weakness and opportunities. if one thing i have learned about jim tressel and his staff is they are willing to play nearly anyone in any situation if they feel it will help them win the game. tank whaley, tyree at um, bobby carpenter as a true frosh and a bunch of others come to mind. players and schemes will be used which the staff feels give the teams the best chances to reach their goals...
Click to expand...

Which is one of the reasons they are always winning.......I would like to see what some of the younger inexperienced backs can do personally. No offense to Mo Wells,but with all the talent that COULD be behind him there's no reason not to at least explore and see what some of these guys can do..One of these guys just might be a bigtime freak.
 
Upvote 0
jwinslow;1135086; said:
So do the OL just not like blocking for Mo? And when the blocking improves, won't Brandon benefit as well? I don't see how the hypothetical helps Mo catch up.
Click to expand...

For a guy who takes a ton of game photos, you sure miss a lot. I can't count how many times Mo had defenders in the backfield, whereas it sure seemed that Saine didn't have that problem that often. Now, whether it was because of the scheme for Mo versus the scheme for Saine, or whether the defense felt they could run-blitz as soon as Mo took the field, I don't know. Bottom line is the difference in their production is negligible.

Neither see much action until JT decides to rest Beanie, and usually by that time it doesn't matter a whole lot which RB comes in. Now, heaven forbid, should Beanie get hurt, I think Mo gets the initial nod as #2 but Saine could very well overtake him...totally different scenario. But, should Beanie stay healthy and run all over people, when JT decides to sit him and put in a temp replacement while Beanie gets a rest, he'll have Mo as #2 simply he's a senior and the difference in production between Mo and Saine isn't that great. Saine is further developed at his stage of his carre than Mo was, no doubt. But the current Mo still stacks up well enough against a young Saine for Mo to get the nod due to his seniority.
 
Upvote 0
MililaniBuckeye;1135174; said:
For a guy who takes a ton of game photos, you sure miss a lot. I can't count how many times Mo had defenders in the backfield, whereas it sure seemed that Saine didn't have that problem that often. Now, whether it was because of the scheme for Mo versus the scheme for Saine, or whether the defense felt they could run-blitz as soon as Mo took the field, I don't know. Bottom line is the difference in their production is negligible.
Click to expand...

Mo has problems finding the hole when he is not in space and often tends to dance around in the backfield looking for one which allows backside defenders to get to him IMO...
 
Upvote 0
A couple other factors on the number of carries for Zoom vs. MoW this year. MoW may well be the #2 tailback and get less carries than Zoom, who could be spending time in the same backfield as Beanie when tOSU uses the "pony" formation. I also haven't seen anybody credit MoW for his solid pass protection recently in this thread, which is another reason he gets playing time.
 
Upvote 0
I love Mo's blocking, and have raved many times about how he introduced himself vs Miami 05, setting up Boeckman's first TD (to Ginn) by stuffing an untouched DE. I also think he's taken nice strides from the first two years, and runs harder and stronger. It hurt OSU when he went down vs Illinois.

It sure is a wonderful problem to wonder how the Heisman trophy winner, 4th yr veteran, promising soph speedster & practice standout rs frosh will fit in. And we haven't even touched on whether Flash can be worked into some creative carries. A far cry from the steep dropoff after Clarett & Pittman (before Beanie).
MoW may well be the #2 tailback and get less carries than Zoom, who could be spending time in the same backfield as Beanie when tOSU uses the "pony" formation
Click to expand...
Thrilled to see this formation in action, as Zoom has tremendous potential but isn't a true feature RB imo.
I can't count how many times Mo had defenders in the backfield, whereas it sure seemed that Saine didn't have that problem that often.
Click to expand...
I remember Beanie having that problem a lot too early on. Honestly, the only Saine drive I can think of was when he would spell Beanie and the drives would stall, as they stacked the box. I recall groaning as the thoroughbred left the field as he could've made that an even more dominating performance of Tresselball.
Now, heaven forbid, should Beanie get hurt, I think Mo gets the initial nod as #2 but Saine could very well overtake him...totally different scenario.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting point, similar to Henton-Pryor (but different)... where the starter's status can greatly change the youngster's PT. (I'm of the camp that Pryor plays more as a #4 QB but package qb threat than if Boeckman & Bauserman both go down with injury).
 
Upvote 0
MoW may be the preferred RB due to his proven worth and experience over the past several years. Zoom has more to prove this year and frankly he's still on a learning curve. I mean, he's talented but MoW has the wiskers (and the hair). Zoom will get his PT but the equalizer will be his use as a kickoff and punt returner. His speed and patience as a runner will find him in the endzone this year. He's going to break one or two for TDs and then we'll see how JT has balanced the wealth of RBs this year.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top