Rafael Palmeiro suspended for 'Roids !

[AKAK]

High Lonesome: "yeah I agree that those guys are good examples but wouldn't you just rather forget the entire decade?"

If steroids bothered you that much, then you should've looked to the model team of the 90's for inspiration:

3 World Championships in the 90's with a steroid-free roster. No matter how many teams wanted to juice up, the good guys always won in the end.

First... lets not go into "Steroid Free"... who knows what Scott Brosius was doing in the mens room....

Of course... the real lesson about the Yankees and the 90's is the over importance that we place on Home Runs as an as indicator of success... not a real slugger on those clubs... at least not one that hit a bunch of dingers in those years. What, Bernie hit 30 in 2000, and he was the only one of those 4?

 

[Sloopy45]

AKAK: "Eddie only hit 22 in 1981... and led the league in dingers..."

Yep. Murray's only HR & RBI Title came in the strike shortened '81 season: 99 games, 22 dongs & 78 RBI.

If you look up "Complier" in the Dictionary, Murray's picture is right next to it ..

In a 21 year career, the only other offensive categories he EVER led the AL in were OBP once & BB once (.410 & 104 BB in 1984).

 

[harrydangler]

3 World Championships in the 90's with a steroid-free roster. No matter how many teams wanted to juice up, the good guys always won in the end.

That's the thing that drives me crazy....only one team has won a WS since 1990 with a 50 HR hitter and even then the rest of the team didn't have much power. I don't understand why GM's continue to overpay power hitters when the real formula should be modeled after the Braves, 90's Yankees, Marlins, etc

Bonus Points to the person who can name the team that won it with the 50 HR hitter....

 

[Sloopy45]

AKAK: "First... lets not go into "Steroid Free"... who knows what Scott Brosius was doing in the mens room...."

Come on .. there's no way Scotty Too Hotty was on 'Roids.

"What, Bernie hit 30 in 2000, and he was the only one of those 4?"

Of the Championship seasons, yes. The Bam-Tino slammed 44 in '97 and 34 in '01, but as you Indians fans know all too well, the Yanks didn't win it all in '97 or '01. Bernie came close (29 in '96), Tino came close twice (28 in '98 & '99), and Posada clocked 28 in '00, but no one but Bernie topped the 30 mark.

The '98 team didn't have one guy with power, but it slugged a ton of homers - 10 guys on the team had double digit home runs. That's gotta be a record.

 

[AKAK]

AKAK: "Eddie only hit 22 in 1981... and led the league in dingers..."

Yep. Murray's only HR & RBI Title came in the strike shortened '81 season: 99 games, 22 dongs & 78 RBI.

If you look up "Complier" in the Dictionary, Murray's picture is right next to it ..

In a 21 year career, the only other offensive categories he EVER led the AL in were OBP once & BB once (.410 & 104 BB in 1984).

Here's an interesting thing... This stat is Most similar hitter by age throught Murray's carreer. (Age 21 to 41) Of course... Palmeiro in only 39.. so the last two are murray at 40 and 41... I wonder who that's going to be. Also... Palmeiro is the 2nd most similar hitter to Murray (After Orlando Cepeda) at 32 and 33.

21 Greg Luzinski (940) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
22 Greg Luzinski (948) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
23 Jason Thompson (930) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
24 John Olerud (924) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
25 Greg Luzinski (925) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
26 Greg Luzinski (937) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
27 Greg Luzinski (923) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
28 Orlando Cepeda (938) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
29 Orlando Cepeda (939) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
30 Orlando Cepeda (949) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
31 Orlando Cepeda (958) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
32 Orlando Cepeda (951) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
33 Orlando Cepeda (943) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
34 Rafael Palmeiro (908) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
35 Rafael Palmeiro (917) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
36 Rafael Palmeiro (907) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
37 Rafael Palmeiro (896) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
38 Rafael Palmeiro (894) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
39 Rafael Palmeiro (898) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
40 Carl Yastrzemski (851) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
41 Dave Winfield (857) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

 

[High Lonesome]

High Lonesome: "yeah I agree that those guys are good examples but wouldn't you just rather forget the entire decade?"

If steroids bothered you that much, then you should've looked to the model team of the 90's for inspiration:

3 World Championships in the 90's with a steroid-free roster. No matter how many teams wanted to juice up, the good guys always won in the end.

I have nothing against the yankee's other than i have 0 in common with them.

Its sucks knowing that there is a decent chance that a child hood hero like jeff bagwell was probably juicing, Ken Caminetti definatly was, and all those guys. While I love Griffey I can't help but feel that he was the exception and not the rule

 

[Sloopy45]

harrydangler: "Bonus Points to the person who can name the team that won it with the 50 HR hitter...."

This is incorrect. I can name two off the top of my head:

1927 Yankees, Ruth (60)
1961 Yankees, Maris (61) & Mantle (54).

There wasn't a Championship team in the '90's with a 50 HR hitter.

 

[AKAK]

AKAK: "First... lets not go into "Steroid Free"... who knows what Scott Brosius was doing in the mens room...."

Come on .. there's no way Scotty Too Hotty was on 'Roids.

"What, Bernie hit 30 in 2000, and he was the only one of those 4?"

Of the Championship seasons, yes. The Bam-Tino slammed 44 in '97 and 34 in '01, but as you Indians fans know all too well, the Yanks didn't win it all in '97 or '01. Bernie came close (29 in '96), Tino came close twice (28 in '98 & '99), and Posada clocked 28 in '00, but no one but Bernie topped the 30 mark.

The '98 team didn't have one guy with power, but it slugged a ton of homers - 10 guys on the team had double digit home runs. That's gotta be a record.

Exactly.... great hitters, but not necessarily great Homerun Hitters... I would bet that if we looked closer... the OBP's, pitches taken and those kinds of things...along with BA... are the really impressive stats.

 

[harrydangler]

harrydangler: "Bonus Points to the person who can name the team that won it with the 50 HR hitter...."

This is incorrect. I can name two off the top of my head:

1927 Yankees, Ruth (60)
1961 Yankees, Maris (61) & Mantle (54).

There wasn't a Championship team in the '90's with a 50 HR hitter.

Well I meant since 1990...sorry about that. Since 90 only Gonzalez with Arizona has hit 50 and won a title and I think we'd all agree Randy and Schilling was the reason they won it all.

 

[sears3820]

Another good Raffy photoshop from www.bostondirtdogs.com

 

[Golferdow01]

Exactly.... great hitters, but not necessarily great Homerun Hitters... I would bet that if we looked closer... the OBP's, pitches taken and those kinds of things...along with BA... are the really impressive stats.

This is very true. The pitching still is the top factor I look at when it comes to world champions. A combination of names like Roger Clemens, David Cone, Orlando Hernandez, Andy Pettite, Mariano Rivera, David Wells...this is what I look at when I think of a champion-caliber team

 

[kinch]

So Franklin from the Mariners is busted too, eh?

Anyone think MLB is timing these? When do we hear about Roberts?

Is it true they don't test for HGH or elephant semen or whatever Giambia has been sucking down this month?

I just wish they would have huge testing for at least a year or two. A number of times a season, on everybody. This once-and-done+random thing won't cut it. Plus they need to test for HGH.

Oh well. Whatever.

 

[High Lonesome]

Is it true they don't test for HGH or elephant semen or whatever Giambia has been sucking down this month

its not that they don't test for hgh, its that it is undetectable

 

[Sloopy45]

AKAK: "This stat is Most similar hitter by age throught Murray's carreer."

I guess totals wise, this would be accurate. But if you go season by season, Palmeiro is much better than Murray. I mean, look at Raffy's stats in the 90's. Murray never had seasons like these:

1999 (career year): R-96, H-183, 2B-30, HR-47, RBI-148, BB-97, AVG-.324, OBP-.420, SLG-.630

Raffy had 4 seasons with 40+ Homers, 10 seasons with 35+ Homers (9 straight years), and two seasons with 140+ RBI. I mean, his power numbers are really impressive - Murray doesn't have one season that jumps out at you on paper. Palmeiro has 10 or 12 ..

"Exactly.... great hitters, but not necessarily great Homerun Hitters... I would bet that if we looked closer... the OBP's, pitches taken and those kinds of things...along with BA... are the really impressive stats."

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, my man. I believe in small ball, making contact, doing the little things, taking pitches, moving the runner over, high OBP, etc. mixed in with the occasional clutch home run. Its the only way to win Championships in the 90's/00's. The days of the old Yankees & the Big Red Machine slugging their way to Championships are long since over .. you can't win like that nowadays.

A team that survives on bludgeoning its opponent with pure power (the '88 & '90 A's, the '04 Yankees, the '95 Indians, et al.) will eventually meet a team in the Playoffs that can take away their power, and once that's gone they're just an average team. You've got to be able to beat a superior pitching team by manufacturing runs, taking pitches, and getting into the soft underbelly of the opposing team's Bullpen.

Golferdow01: "A combination of names like Roger Clemens, David Cone, Orlando Hernandez, Andy Pettite, Mariano Rivera, David Wells...this is what I look at when I think of a champion-caliber team"

And B-I-N-G-O was his name-O. Great post. Props coming.

kinch: "Is it true they don't test for HGH or elephant semen or whatever Giambia has been sucking down this month?"

Dude, not for nothing (as some of you know, I've been Giambi's biggest critic), but can Giambi at least FAIL a freeking test before you condemn him? As far as we know right now, he's a guy who made a big mistake, but paid his dues: his health & body completely crumbled underneath him, he was left for dead, villified (much worse than you can imagine) by the media & fans in NY, was benched, and basically everybody & his grandmother thought his career was over.

And what did the guy do? He sucked it up, worked hard, got through all the critics, and seemed to put his career & his life back together .. until proven that he can't pee in a cup, I'm gonna take it as an inspirational tale & support the guy 100%. THE GIAMBINO !!!

"I just wish they would have huge testing for at least a year or two. A number of times a season, on everybody. This once-and-done+random thing won't cut it. Plus they need to test for HGH."

The details on these "random" tests is sketchy. I've heard that the testing pattern is how you describe, and I've also heard the complete opposite. So I don't know what to believe. I also heard that there's a 'reasonable cause' test where they can go to a suspicious character & test him whenever they want to.

 

[HabaneroBuck]

There are too many good young hitters comming up and I think that baseball would be illadvised to not try and promote guys like Miguel Cabrera, Mark Teixeira, Mike Young, Justin Mournoe(sp?) Travis Hafner, Alphonso Soriano, Joe Mouer, Lance Berkman, and then some of the non power hitters like Carl Crawford, Scott posednick, Eric Byrnes. There is very good baseball being played right now from some of the up and comming players and thats not even including the rediculous pitchers comming up

OK, I've got to ask, since you are a Texas guy and all, why didn't you include Dunn in your listing? Have anything you'd care to share with the rest of us? :susp: