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Rafael Palmeiro suspended for 'Roids !

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How many guys on the 500 HR list started their first 3 full seasons with 8, 8, & 14 HR?
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Well, to sorta answer that question, Sportscenter showed that' Palmeiro's eight full seasons before having a 30-HR season is the most by any member of the 500-HR Club. Ruth and Killebrew had seven sub-30 seasons before their first.

ESPN also pointed out that that first 30-HR season was 1993, Palmeiro's first full season as a teammate of (duh-duh-duh!) Jose Canseco.

What baseball needs is a Lance Armstrong. A guy who jacks the ball out of the park, then goes and takes a piss test after the game every night. They need a poster boy for CLEAN excellence.
 
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jlb1705 said:
Well, to sorta answer that question, Sportscenter showed that' Palmeiro's eight full seasons before having a 30-HR season is the most by any member of the 500-HR Club. Ruth and Killebrew had seven sub-30 seasons before their first.

ESPN also pointed out that that first 30-HR season was 1993, Palmeiro's first full season as a teammate of (duh-duh-duh!) Jose Canseco.

What baseball needs is a Lance Armstrong. A guy who jacks the ball out of the park, then goes and takes a piss test after the game every night. They need a poster boy for CLEAN excellence.
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The only reason Ruth had that many sub-30 HR seasons was because he was mainly a pitcher, not an every day player.
 
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jlb1705: "Ruth and Killebrew had seven sub-30 seasons before their first"

That's ridiculous, and incorrect. What they forgot to mention is that Killer came up in 1954 at 18 years old. In his first five seasons, he played in 9 games ('54), 38 games ('55), 44 games ('56), 9 games ('57), and 13 games ('58).

In Killebrew's first (even remotely) full season in 1959 (his sixth w/ Big League experience), he played in 153 games & slugged 42 bombs.

harrydangler: "Not to mention it was still the deadball era basically..."

The deadball era didn't slow down the Bambino. In 1918, he tied for the league lead in home runs with 11 (5 more than the next guy, Frank "Home Run" Baker) while splitting time as a pitcher (only played 59 games in the OF, and 13 games at 1B). I didn't know that he EVER played 1B???

The next season, he played more games in the field (116), and oblitterated (sp?) the major league home run record, smashing 29 for the Red Sox. 19 more than the next guy, which was "Home Run" Baker again. He also had 103 Runs, 34 2B, 12 3B, 114 RBI, 101 BB, a .322 AVG, .456 OBP, & a .657 SLG that season, the last one in the dead ball era.

That offseason, Red Sox owner Harry Frazee needed to finance the off Broadway play "No No Nanette," and sold Ruth to the upstart New York Yankees (who had never won a pennant before) & GM Ed Barrow. The rest is history ..
 
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Sloopy45 said:
The deadball era didn't slow down the Bambino. In 1918, he tied for the league lead in home runs with 11 (5 more than the next guy, Frank "Home Run" Baker) while splitting time as a pitcher (only played 59 games in the OF, and 13 games at 1B). I didn't know that he EVER played 1B???

The next season, he played more games in the field (116), and oblitterated (sp?) the major league home run record, smashing 29 for the Red Sox. 19 more than the next guy, which was "Home Run" Baker again. He also had 103 Runs, 34 2B, 12 3B, 114 RBI, 101 BB, a .322 AVG, .456 OBP, & a .657 SLG that season, the last one in the dead ball era.
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Well the sample size is pretty small with just the two years before his 1920 season...but his home run to at bat ratio in 1918 (28.8 HR/AB) and 1919 (14.9 HR/AB) are lower in comparison to his career number (11.7 HR/AB) and prime years (9.8 HR/AB) number so you'd think it may have had some effect...but thats all speculation and I'm sure could be caused by several factors.
 
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I dunno if the early numbers for Palmeiro mean a whole lot... of course ESPN left off his first half season where he hit 14 dingers in only about 220 AB's....

And he really only had 5 full season before hitting 30... with 26 and 22 in 4 and 5.

Truth is, it takes time for some guys to develop power... and to be quite honest, roids aside... he is maybe the guy that impresses me the least on the 500+ list from a raw power perspective.... he is ther primarily because of longevity and consistency... now... it may be that he's been using roids all along and that's contruibuted to the longevity and consistency... but I doubt, with a swing like his, that you'd add a bunch of power on an at-bat to at-bat basis... dude doesn't swing like McGwire or Sosa.

Edgar Martinez never hit 30 home runs until he was 37 :wink2: ... didn't hit 20 until he was 32...(I know Edgar only hit about 300 dingers... but they are a similar type of hitter) the point is that Raffy isn't a pure power hitter, and a lot of guys don't hit theri stride until they are 25 or 26.... most of the guys who are on the 500+ list did... and those years are the primary reason that they are on the 500+ list and not the 350 to 400 list.... but the real difference for most of the 500 guys is that they played a long time... and Raffy has played more than most of them.

Okay.. back to your regularly scheduled bashing.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
The next season, he played more games in the field (116), and oblitterated (sp?) the major league home run record, smashing 29 for the Red Sox. 19 more than the next guy, which was "Home Run" Baker again.
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I didn't think this sounded correct so I cheated and looked it up. Depending how you classify the record, he broke the single season HR record of Gavvy Cravath (24 HR's in 1915)...if you go way back then he broke the record of Ned Williamson (27 in 1884). Anyway sorry for hijacking the thread back to Raffy....
 
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They need a poster boy for CLEAN excellence.
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right now that guy is Mark Teixeira. He has been involved with speaking out agains steroids since his days in the minors and continues to do so in the majors while hitting bombs and playing a gold glove caliber 1st base. Who knows if he has been tested but it is going to have to be one of these young guys. Anyone that was around in the 90's is tainted in my mind.
 
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A couple players that started slow, but ended up just fine, would be Yaz and Musial, I believe. (Just to help with some better examples.)

Word from the little birds flying around baseball is that Palmeiro borrowed something from a teammate and thought it was okay. (Roberts? :P )

If that is true, and is the true explanation for all this, I hope Palmeiro discusses his hearing in public. The panel said his story was "compelling," whatever that story may have been. . .
 
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AKAK: "Truth is, it takes time for some guys to develop power"

True, but all of the 500 Home Run guys showed power right out of the chute, save for Raffy. Even Mike Schmidt, who hit .196 in his first full season had 18 bombs to go with it. He hit 36, 38, 38, & 38 in his next four seasons after that.

"he is maybe the guy that impresses me the least on the 500+ list from a raw power perspective"

What about Eddie Murray? His power numbers are pathetic .. he never even hit 35 homers in a season!

High Lonesome: "right now that guy is Mark Teixeira. He has been involved with speaking out agains steroids since his days in the minors and continues to do so in the majors while hitting bombs and playing a gold glove caliber 1st base."

He also wears # 23 in honor of his favorite player, another classy home-run hitting, gold glove 1B: Mr. Donald Arthur Mattingly. Teixeira's a good guy.
 
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High Lonesome said:
right now that guy is Mark Teixeira. He has been involved with speaking out agains steroids since his days in the minors and continues to do so in the majors while hitting bombs and playing a gold glove caliber 1st base. Who knows if he has been tested but it is going to have to be one of these young guys. Anyone that was around in the 90's is tainted in my mind.
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Yeah Tex is a great example but I'm not convinced everyone from the 90's is tainted. Arod and Griffey seem about as legit as you can get if you ask me.
 
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Word from the little birds flying around baseball is that Palmeiro borrowed something from a teammate and thought it was okay. (Roberts? :P )
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i would say sammy or javy but those guys must have quit the way they have sucked this year

harrydangler said:
Yeah Tex is a great example but I'm not convinced everyone from the 90's is tainted. Arod and Griffey seem about as legit as you can get if you ask me.
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yeah I agree that those guys are good examples but wouldn't you just rather forget the entire decade? I know I would. There are too many good young hitters comming up and I think that baseball would be illadvised to not try and promote guys like Miguel Cabrera, Mark Teixeira, Mike Young, Justin Mournoe(sp?) Travis Hafner, Alphonso Soriano, Joe Mouer, Lance Berkman, and then some of the non power hitters like Carl Crawford, Scott posednick, Eric Byrnes. There is very good baseball being played right now from some of the up and comming players and thats not even including the rediculous pitchers comming up
 
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High Lonesome: "yeah I agree that those guys are good examples but wouldn't you just rather forget the entire decade?"

If steroids bothered you that much, then you should've looked to the model team of the 90's for inspiration:

3 World Championships in the 90's with a steroid-free roster. No matter how many teams wanted to juice up, the good guys always won in the end.
 
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What about Eddie Murray? His power numbers are pathetic .. he never even hit 35 homers in a season!
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Eddie "longevitied" his way on the list as well... true enough.. Of course... ... there is a bit of an Era difference in play too, though... Eddie only hit 22 in 1981... and led the league in dingers... :wink2:
 
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High Lonesome said:
yeah I agree that those guys are good examples but wouldn't you just rather forget the entire decade? I know I would. There are too many good young hitters comming up and I think that baseball would be illadvised to not try and promote guys like Miguel Cabrera, Mark Teixeira, Mike Young, Justin Mournoe(sp?) Travis Hafner, Alphonso Soriano, Joe Mouer, Lance Berkman, and then some of the non power hitters like Carl Crawford, Scott posednick, Eric Byrnes. There is very good baseball being played right now from some of the up and comming players and thats not even including the rediculous pitchers comming up
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Well I can't forget an entire decade as tainted as the numbers may be....I hate to see great players like Griffey and Arod get lumped in with the Canseco's of the world. Although I do agree the talent coming out now is unbelievable and it's nice to know we don't have to worry about what kind of milk shakes they're drinking.

EDIT: The Herd is going off MLB and Raffy if you have access to ESPiN Radio.
 
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