QB/WR Terrelle Pryor ('10 Rose, '11 Sugar MVP)

[3074326]

Morality is not defined by the ncaa sorry.

If anyone is morally in the wrong here it is the ncaa, to be honest. Although most likely they are not morally wrong either. But taking away someones access to selling their own stuff is not exactly the right thing to do. These players have the right to earn a living and money, but due to the time consumed by their lives as athletes and the time required to be an impactful player at this level, many probably have to find other ways to earn that living.

Lastly, by your argument:

If there was an ncaa rule saying that a player couldnt buy a car, you are saying that the player would be morally wrong because he broke an ncaa rule.

What defines morality? My definition of morality is different than your definition, apparently.

The car example is completely irrelevant because that 1) would never be a rule and 2) would serve no purpose as a rule.

The selling memorabilia rule makes a lot of sense, and I have no idea why everyone seems to ignore it. If players were allowed to sell stuff they received for playing (jerseys, shoes, trophies, etc), then the schools with connections/resources would be at a ridiculous advantage.

"We want you at our school. We know someone who will buy a jersey for $10,000."

See the problem? That's why the rule is in place. And breaking a rule is not moral. That's one of the most ridiculous arguments I've read on BP, honestly. This isn't some petty rule like not allowing stickers on helmets.. this rule serves a purpose, and a very important one at that.

EDIT: Again, I'm not hating on TP. Just annoyed with the total homerism in regards to this situation. If it were any other school we'd be laughing at them, calling them dirty, laughing at their fans for defending it, etc.

 

[Meyer]

First, yes of course I see the problem. That has never been in question here. But that also does not mean that what the NCAA is doing is right and what Terrelle Pryor did is wrong.

Just because people popularly believe it to be wrong/right, does not make it wrong/right.

Secondly, your understanding of morality is what is ridiculous.

You are trying to say that a person selling their own personal belongings is doing something morally wrong.

If the NCAA is right, then selling one's own personal belongings is morally wrong.
Selling one's own personal belongings is not wrong,
Therefore the NCAA is not right.

Third, would you agree that drunken driving is more morally wrong than selling gold pants for $1000?? If the NCAA is correct, then why does someone get suspended for 5 games for selling their own personal belongings and zero for drunken driving?

My point is that the NCAA rules have no bearing on what is right and wrong.

Fourth, my argument was not ridiculous. I was attempting to point out to you that you were accepting something the NCAA says as some kind of moral standard.

Selling ones own belongings is not and will not ever be morally wrong.

Buying property that you know is stolen and cheating, on the other hand, will probably always be morally wrong.

Fifth, if you still disagree will you please explain to me your defintion of what morality is??

 

[SloopyHangOn]

How come whenever one of these circular rhetoric debates spawns on these boards recently ubet is at the heart of it? Off-season?

 

[3074326]

Oh my God. This is the most frustrating conversation I've had in quite some time.

First, yes of course I see the problem. That has never been in question here. But that also does not mean that what the NCAA is doing is right and what Terrelle Pryor did is wrong.

If you see the problem, then why is what TP did right? He broke a rule that you admittedly understand. The NCAA sets up these rules. He's a student-athlete, and he has to abide by them. There's really no debate here.

Whether or not you think the rule is fair or not doesn't even matter. My opinion on it doesn't matter, either. The truth is that it's a rule, and he broke it. It's not some outrageous rule, either. It makes sense, which we both agreed on.

Just because people popularly believe it to be wrong/right, does not make it wrong/right.

Ok. Just because most people think what TP did was right doesn't mean it's right.

Secondly, your understanding of morality is what is ridiculous.

You are trying to say that a person selling their own personal belongings is doing something morally wrong.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

If the NCAA is right, then selling one's own personal belongings is morally wrong.
Selling one's own personal belongings is not wrong,
Therefore the NCAA is not right.

My definition of morality is following the rules that govern you, basically. What's so ridiculous about that? Breaking rules = immoral, in my opinion.

He's not selling his DVDs. He's selling things that were given to him because he's had success playing football. You already admitted that you understand why the rule is in place.

Take this rule out and there are major benefits to the bigger schools with lots of resources and connections. I'd probably stop watching college football because recruits would have no reason to go to any of the non-profitable football schools, which is about every school other than 14 or so.

Therefore, the NCAA is right in not allowing players to sell trophies and rings.

Third, would you agree that drunken driving is more morally wrong than selling gold pants for $1000?? If the NCAA is correct, then why does someone get suspended for 5 games for selling their own personal belongings and zero for drunken driving?

I'm not the NCAA. Drunk driving deserves a bigger suspension than selling stuff. But this is argument doesn't really fit in this discussion.

My point is that the NCAA rules have no bearing on what is right and wrong.

I bet Coach Tressel would tell you differently. You can't just go around breaking rules because you disagree with them. I curse all the time and don't get why people are offended by words, but I don't go curse in the recruiting forum. Why? Because I want to be a member of BP and follow its rules, and if I want to continue doing that, I have to do what the rules say are right and wrong whether I like it or not. If I don't, I get banned.

TP has to do the same in regards to the NCAA and its rules.

Fourth, my argument was not ridiculous. I was attempting to point out to you that you were accepting something the NCAA says as some kind of moral standard.

Let's just drop the moral argument. We obviously disagree about its definition, and our definitions of it don't even matter. The NCAA's definition does, however.

Selling ones own belongings is not and will not ever be morally wrong.

Take "morally" out of there. It was wrong because it broke a rule that resulted in major violations. He knew the rule, we knew the rule. You can't break rules.

Buying property that you know is stolen and cheating, on the other hand, will probably always be morally wrong.

I don't care about Cam Newton.

 

[Steve19]

It's that Ohio State QB! Look! Their coach knew! You see! They admitted it! Ohio State is dirty! Wait...what? Recruiting too many players? Ignoring academic misconduct and allowing a student to leave the program and play elsewhere? FBI investigation? SEC rot?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8105U1WY9ro"]YouTube - iseenothing.avi[/ame]

 

[Systems_id]

It's hilarious how TP is still getting roasted while Troy Smith is lauded as a Buckeye hero despite an arguably more egregious offense.

 

[BUCKYLE]

It's hilarious how TP is still getting roasted while Troy Smith is lauded as a Buckeye hero despite an arguably more egregious offense.

But the NCAA suspended Pryor longer than Smith!!11!! So morally, what Pryor did was wronger. Look it up.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Oh my God. This is the most frustrating conversation I've had in quite some time.



If you see the problem, then why is what TP did right? He broke a rule that you admittedly understand. The NCAA sets up these rules. He's a student-athlete, and he has to abide by them. There's really no debate here.

Whether or not you think the rule is fair or not doesn't even matter. My opinion on it doesn't matter, either. The truth is that it's a rule, and he broke it. It's not some outrageous rule, either. It makes sense, which we both agreed on.



Ok. Just because most people think what TP did was right doesn't mean it's right.



No, that's not what I'm saying at all.



My definition of morality is following the rules that govern you, basically. What's so ridiculous about that? Breaking rules = immoral, in my opinion.

He's not selling his DVDs. He's selling things that were given to him because he's had success playing football. You already admitted that you understand why the rule is in place.

Take this rule out and there are major benefits to the bigger schools with lots of resources and connections. I'd probably stop watching college football because recruits would have no reason to go to any of the non-profitable football schools, which is about every school other than 14 or so.

Therefore, the NCAA is right in not allowing players to sell trophies and rings.



I'm not the NCAA. Drunk driving deserves a bigger suspension than selling stuff. But this is argument doesn't really fit in this discussion.



I bet Coach Tressel would tell you differently. You can't just go around breaking rules because you disagree with them. I curse all the time and don't get why people are offended by words, but I don't go curse in the recruiting forum. Why? Because I want to be a member of BP and follow its rules, and if I want to continue doing that, I have to do what the rules say are right and wrong whether I like it or not. If I don't, I get banned.

TP has to do the same in regards to the NCAA and its rules.



Let's just drop the moral argument. We obviously disagree about its definition, and our definitions of it don't even matter. The NCAA's definition does, however.



Take "morally" out of there. It was wrong because it broke a rule that resulted in major violations. He knew the rule, we knew the rule. You can't break rules.



I don't care about Cam Newton.

From this post, It's clear you are a gigantic pussy. Pussy.

 

[3074326]

From this post, It's clear you are a gigantic pussy. Pussy.

 

[BUCKYLE]

How long does a rule have to be a rule before it's immoral to break it? Are all rules equally unbreakable? What about me not wearing my seatbelt is immoral? That's not just a rule, it's a law. What about laws like stealing, but my child is starving? I understand it's immoral, but wouldn't it be...immoraller to starve a child to death?

 

[3074326]

How long does a rule have to be a rule before it's immoral to break it? Are all rules equally unbreakable? What about me not wearing my seatbelt is immoral? That's not just a rule, it's a law. What about laws like stealing, but my child is starving? I understand it's immoral, but wouldn't it be...immoraller to starve a child to death?

There is literally nothing in this post that has anything to do with Terrelle Pryor. I don't think people reading this thread give a shit about my opinion on any of these questions.

 

[BUCKYLE]

There is literally nothing in this post that has anything to do with Terrelle Pryor. I don't think people reading this thread give a shit about my opinion on any of these questions.

The discussion over the last page was debating the character of TP compared to Cam. You seem to be claiming that what TP did was wrong because it's an NCAA rule. I'm saying that while I wish he hadn't broken the rule, the rule he broke was made and is enforced by a hypocritical, corrupt organization that, at the very least, deserves to have it's rules and disciplinary actions questioned. I mean, the fact that selling your trinkets for fair market value carries a far stiffer penalty than domestic violence or drunk driving makes the NCAA a fucking joke. They punish you greater for breaking their rules than they do for breaking actual laws.

I also understand possible abuses of selling ones personal property, but the things that the players sold have been given out by tOSU for decades, and they received fair market value for the items, so the selling of the items wasn't as big a violation as it could've been.

 

[matcar]

How long does a rule have to be a rule before it's immoral to break it? Are all rules equally unbreakable? What about me not wearing my seatbelt is immoral? That's not just a rule, it's a law. What about laws like stealing, but my child is starving? I understand it's immoral, but wouldn't it be...immoraller to starve a child to death?

TP knowingly broke a rule. That doesn't make him a horrible guy but it does make him someone willing to risk both personal and team goals to break that rule. I can get with forgiving the action but suggestions that he did nothing wrong are absurd.

 

[3074326]

The discussion over the last page was debating the character of TP compared to Cam. You seem to be claiming that what TP did was wrong because it's an NCAA rule. I'm saying that while I wish he hadn't broken the rule, the rule he broke was made and is enforced by a hypocritical, corrupt organization that, at the very least, deserves to have it's rules and disciplinary actions questioned. I mean, the fact that selling your trinkets for fair market value carries a far stiffer penalty than domestic violence or drunk driving makes the NCAA a fucking joke. They punish you greater for breaking their rules than they do for breaking actual laws.

I also understand possible abuses of selling ones personal property, but the things that the players sold have been given out by tOSU for decades, and they received fair market value for the items, so the selling of the items wasn't as big a violation as it could've been.

I agree with your thoughts on the NCAA. It sucks.

That being said, this type of personal property is pretty clearly something that shouldn't be sold while in school. It not only gets the players in trouble, it gets the school in trouble and puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. It's one of the rules that I do agree with, and I do think it makes sense.

I really get the idea behind the "selling personal belongings should be allowed" argument. I just look at these items as more of a team/university owned thing until the player is done at school. Selling them is a pay-for-play kind of thing at its core.

I don't really agree with the punishment either, especially compared to other offenses. But there really isn't much else to say about that.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Being wrong does not necessarily indict ones morality.