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QB/WR Braxton Miller (B1G POY, National Champion, OSU HOF)

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Jesus, I told myself I wasn't going to do this...

Ok, in my imo here's why Miller did not get in the game. I just went through the play-by-play (Yahoo). I am not going to double and triple check this, so if my numbers are off, fuck you, they aren't off by much.....probably. :biggrin:

By my count we had 26 first down plays (not including the victory formation at the end). By my count, on 17 of those first downs we gained 3 yards or less. I think its generally accepted that 4 yards or more is "winning 1st down." Of those 17 "losses" on 1st down, 4 of those were incomplete passes by JB (which means only 4 chances out of 26 where Miller's legs would have conceivably made a difference on called passes). That leaves 13 (50%) of the 1st downs where our running game "lost" 1st down (against a MAC team mind you. A good one, but yeah, still MAC). This is not exactly conducive to sending out a freshman QB. Or any other QB for that matter. I'm not going through the 2nd downs (feel free), but to me, this says we were behind the chains most of this game. It does not shock me, nor does it disturb me, that the coaches would hesitate in sending in Miller. By these numbers, there wasn't a whole lot of situations where he would have been set up for success.

I think some of us need to cut JB some slack. He wasn't getting a whole lot of help out there, and of course, I understand, I do, he didn't help himself on a couple of occasions too. But we knew coming into this season that the RB position was going to have to account for a lot of the production. It was....um....sporadic, to be kind. Anyone believing either of these QBs are ready to load this team on their backs and carry them to victories hasn't been paying attention. This year, that's the job of the RBs and defense...

That being said, I am far more concerned about a defense giving up big plays and getting only inconsistent pressure, a FG kicker struggling and a punt unit allowing a block, an oline that struggled to make holes, and running backs who missed a lot of holes when they were available. I think that after the coaches saw that Toledo was capable of hitting us for 70 yard TDs, and that we weren't building a lead, the 2 QB game plan went out the window and experience trumped talent. I'm ok with that...
 
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I really don't think that performance against Akron really tells us much. They are one of the worst teams at this level of college football and were overwhelmed early in Ohio Stadium. Is there such a thing as a MAC juggernaut? I don't think so.

What I saw last week was a Toledo team with modest personnel take an Ohio State team with much greater talent to the limit. I know, lots of young guys, so many key players suspended, new coach. I get it but I would not be honest if I did not say that I was thinking, "After all the trash-talking Buckeye fans have been doing, Lord, please don't let TSUN fans return the favor."

I missed at least 30% of the game, but I have seen nothing to contradict what I saw. I saw an Ohio State quarterback who avoided turnovers and made some good decisions behind a line that really didn't give him adequate protection. But, I also saw him looking very tentative and slow under pressure, showing no real ability to run from the pocket to make a play, and missing several passes to wide-open receivers. Don't read too much into the stats, because the stats don't really show the missed opportunities. It was a very disappointing performance.

Miller also did pretty well against Akron, after the first tentative set of downs. He got much better with each set of downs. Some folks seem to find what they saw to be very encouraging, but we didn't get to see what he looked like under pressure, did we?

The argument that I see being made is, Buckeye coaches said that both quarterbacks and they didn't. I don't see anyone saying that Bauserman should be benched, rather that Miller should be given a chance--for his own and team reasons.

In my mind, Ohio State was outplayed and outcoached against Toledo and were lucky to win. If they repeat that performance this week, it does not bode well for a 3-0 record.

Miller or Bauserman? Pryor or Boeckman? Smith or Zwick? Jackson or Germaine? A mobile quarterback causes defenses to approach their task differently and opens up new opportunities to be exploited. However, with mobility can come the increased risk of turnovers, which can turn a game. Pushing the young quarterback in too soon can cause dissension within a team that can act like a cancer. Not pushing a young quarterback in soon enough can cause other problems. We've been here before.

I think we'll have a more interesting discussion if we discuss these issues rather than make unfounded comments about the intentions of the people who make them. I'm not saying that anyone is too far out of line, but rather observing that passions are at a point where they could get that way pretty quick, especially if Miami wins this week. So, it seems like a good time to remember that this is supposed to be the BuckeyePlanet. A family sort of a place. Let's keep it that way.
 
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nice analysis, however:

1. the reason we lost 17 first downs was that Toledo stacked the box and dared us to run. They had no fear of Bauserman getting outside of contain, so they could effectively make us block 7 or 8 with 5 or 6.

2. Miller is a very good athlete. Not quite as fast as Pryor but definitely a better passer than Pryor at this point in his career. Dare I say, Miller puts a hell of a lot of pressure on a defense and perhaps even more than Pryor did due to his cannon arm. With BM in, I believe you would have seen Toledo go into nickel.

3. Bauserman literally froze up after the drop by Stoneburner. He was not the same after that and began to flush out of the pocket too quickly and throw the ball away. What I saw from Bauserman was a QB with no confidence in his arm or his receivers' abilities. It was a startling contrast from the early drives.

4. Of course it's only 1 game that we're questioning so far in Fickell's young HC career. But I didn't like what I've heard from him on this subject. I didn't like his halftime comments. He appeared to be misrepresenting his true intentions. That is not a good precedent to set. I remember another "good guy" named Mike Wannstedt of the Chicago Bears. He lost his players after a couple years of this type of personnel management. Players pay attention to stuff the coach says to the media.


Saw31;1989162; said:
Jesus, I told myself I wasn't going to do this...

Ok, in my imo here's why Miller did not get in the game. I just went through the play-by-play (Yahoo). I am not going to double and triple check this, so if my numbers are off, [censored] you, they aren't off by much.....probably. :biggrin:

By my count we had 26 first down plays (not including the victory formation at the end). By my count, on 17 of those first downs we gained 3 yards or less. I think its generally accepted that 4 yards or more is "winning 1st down." Of those 17 "losses" on 1st down, 4 of those were incomplete passes by JB (which means only 4 chances out of 26 where Miller's legs would have conceivably made a difference on called passes). That leaves 13 (50%) of the 1st downs where our running game "lost" 1st down (against a MAC team mind you. A good one, but yeah, still MAC). This is not exactly conducive to sending out a freshman QB. Or any other QB for that matter. I'm not going through the 2nd downs (feel free), but to me, this says we were behind the chains most of this game. It does not shock me, nor does it disturb me, that the coaches would hesitate in sending in Miller. By these numbers, there wasn't a whole lot of situations where he would have been set up for success.

I think some of us need to cut JB some slack. He wasn't getting a whole lot of help out there, and of course, I understand, I do, he didn't help himself on a couple of occasions too. But we knew coming into this season that the RB position was going to have to account for a lot of the production. It was....um....sporadic, to be kind. Anyone believing either of these QBs are ready to load this team on their backs and carry them to victories hasn't been paying attention. This year, that's the job of the RBs and defense...

That being said, I am far more concerned about a defense giving up big plays and getting only inconsistent pressure, a FG kicker struggling and a punt unit allowing a block, an oline that struggled to make holes, and running backs who missed a lot of holes when they were available. I think that after the coaches saw that Toledo was capable of hitting us for 70 yard TDs, and that we weren't building a lead, the 2 QB game plan went out the window and experience trumped talent. I'm ok with that...
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SEREbuckeye;1989149; said:
I was with you on a lot of things but you lost a ton of credibility on this post when you brought up a spring game performance. lol. The spring game isnt a real game, and it isnt always an actual display of a players development and future abilities. You should know that there are always players who shine in spring games and then become flat during the season.

As for being embarrassed on here - sorry man, I know you're a mod and I dont mean to come off disrespectful but at the end of the day its just an online message board - this isnt a real group of friends that I work with and hope to have the respect of. Im not going to be "embarrassed" or even emotionally distressed by an internet group.

In the end I think peeps just need to let it go, understand that Joe B had an off day and give him another chance rather than for calling for more Braxton sightings after last game.
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I suppose you're going to claim that Barn isn't poised for a big year at wideout
 
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jwinslow;1989118; said:
Then you have the audacity to call out people for faulty comparisons while continuing this absurd one I've watched Bauserman struggle to scramble for years. I've seen him struggle with composure in the pocket, throw a lot of low balls, hesitate on most throws even without pass rush, and settle for too many checkdowns.

That doesn't require any access to practice or inside info. That tendency has been on display every spring game.


He made some strides as camp concluded and I hoped Akron was a continuation of that. unfortunately he reverted back to many of his old struggles a week later
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I agree with this. I think the biggest issue, and the reason that Braxton at least needs to be given a shot, is that from here on out, Joe B will be facing defenses that are more like Toledo's (except, of course, better) than they are like Akron's. That means bigger, faster, more athletic defenses who have the book on Joe B that he seems to have some issues as highlighted above. If that's the case, and if the offense is clearly stalling as it was on Saturday, why not given Braxton a series or two to see if he can get something going? What the Joe B advocates seemingly fail to realize is that no one (at least I don't think anyone) clamoring for Braxton to get a shot thinks that Joe B should hit the bench for the rest of the year. They'd just like to see if Braxton can get the offense moving and provide a spark if it is stalling under Joe B. That seems eminently reasonable to me.
 
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Steve19;1989166; said:
Miller also did pretty well against Akron, after the first tentative set of downs. He got much better with each set of downs. Some folks seem to find what they saw to be very encouraging, but we didn't get to see what he looked like under pressure, did we?
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He had a drop that was on Freigel's hands early in that first series. He did get out of pressure on 2 occasions. One of those Urban about jizzed in his pants when Miller spun out and ran for 15 yards.

Just playing Devil's advocate.
 
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stowfan;1989299; said:
Could we be saving something, trying not to show Miami?
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I don't think so, but it could have been. My impression from section 36b was that while we were behind Coach had to stay with his Qb of two games or blow his confidnce all to hell by bringing in Miller, and after Toledo scored right after the half to go ahead aqain the same situation applied. Coach couldn't pull his inexperienced qb then either and that situation is why Miller didn't get to play.
And that's just my impression, not trying to second guess Coach.
 
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I just read 5 pages of this thread, and it seems like we've put the "Trust the coaches" phrase on the bench. But that doesn't mean it can't be used as part of a 2-phrase system.

And we just missed having a double-GPA last night. I had some double-IPAs instead.
 
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Agree with BB. If we'd scored on the second drive, we would have seen plenty of Braxton. We didn't, needless to say, and the blocked punt and TD didn't help things. We then had to keep JB in to get him going and to keep his head right as things continued to go poorly. Eventually, it was just too much of a clusterfcuk to, in good conscience, throw Braxton in or take Joe out.
 
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