QB Justin Zwick (B1G Champion, National Champion)

[buckzip]

"He reminds me of a more athletic, stronger armed, and more accurate Krenzel."

So what exactly does that leave to compare him to CK?<!-- / message -->

 

[brutus2002]

#1 he beats Michigan

#2 He makes good decisions

#3 he is one hell of a leader

#4 his team believes and rallies behind him

#5 He thrives on pressure

#6 plays big in big games

#7 doesn't turn the ball over

#8 Doesn't force things

#9 can hurt you with his feet

#10 can avoid sacks because he senses the pocket collapsing

need I go on

 

[Sdgobucks]

A couple points in response to some earlier posts.

1. Smith played great against scUM, there is no question.

2. I agree one game doesn't make you a starter, but TS won 4 out of 5, and to those that said that the teams TS beat weren't very good, look at marshal cinci, and NC state's records and tell me they are great teams.

3. When all else is equal choose the mobile quarterback. A mobile quarterback adds a third dimension to your offense, and often causes the defense to dedicate a defender to spy the quarterback. There were several plays in the scUM game where TS got away from defenders that would have sacked a pocket passer. As mentioned in another post the strategy of the D line will change when playing against a mobile quarterback, they might contain more instead of rushing in for the sack.

4. TS has one hell of an arm, this is something that the receivers had to get used to, but we saw what happened once they did.

5. This is the last and most important point in my discussion. At this point JZ is probably a better QB in terms of reading defenses, and throwing the ball to the right man, but he gets very panicky if he is under pressure. If you get in JZ's face he will throw off target, make bad decisions, or commit turnovers. If you give him time, I'm sure he would tear apart a defense (like cinci). TS performs great on the run and under pressure. I saw several passes that he threw either while running from defenders, or with someone in his face, and they were perfect spirals that he placed right on the money. This is what I think limits JZ. You can put both guys behind a great O-line, and JZ will probably outperform TS, but if that O-line has a bad game, or you come up against a great defense that blitzes a lot, you are in a heap of trouble.

 

[Hodge]

I have always been - and continue to be - a big Zwick fan. But Troy Smith was responsible for much of the protection he had today. Set a relatively immobile QB in the pocket against that same D and you will see a change in the attack and a change in the effectiveness of the blocking. One reason Troy Smith had time is because he had a running game - and he was that running game.

I understand that different players can have different effects on their teammates, and I know that the defense must respect a mobile QB. However, I think the O-Line has improved greatly (still not the best by any means) over the course of the year, giving Smith better protection than what Zwick saw. Zwick's greatest problem was never having time for routes to develop, and never having time to look for an alternate receiver. Granted scUM may have been cautious with the rush to keep Smith in the pocket, but if I remember correctly Zwick had several 3rd and long scrambles for 1st downs. I was very happy with Smith's play, I'm just trying to have an unbiased view.

 

[buckzip]

#7 doesn't turn the ball over

#8 Doesn't force things

#9 can hurt you with his feet

#10 can avoid sacks because he senses the pocket collapsing

need I go on[/QUOTE]
Actually Brutus,I was joking. I forgot the little wink.

 

[brutus2002]

I was giving you a hard time!!! It's cool. I do think his intangibles are like krenzel. I should have worded the post better.

 

[Sdgobucks]

He made a couple of minor mistakes. Twice he allowed the play clock to expire. I don't think it was a play calling fault as on both plays the offense was set and ready to go.
These are minor mistakes wich will get fixed as he plays more.
I'm very, very excited about this kid's future. I think he'll end up being something very special.

CK did this a lot, I think it has something to do with the system. JT needs to get the plays in more quickly.

 

[osugrad21]

CK did this a lot, I think it has something to do with the system. JT needs to get the plays in more quickly.

That is a problem with JT calling the plays from the sideline...Bollman is up top relaying any package substitutions for the opponent or down & distance tendancies to JT who then has to scan his sheet for a call, get in the personnel, etc.

Too many hands in the pot maybe...

 

[3yardsandacloud]

I assume you watched the game. Tell me of one, just one, bad decision or even anything remotely looking like a wrong decision he made all day. He threw the ball out of bounds a couple of times instead of trying for yardage...earlier in the season he would've forced himself to run. He clearly is learning when to run and when to throw it away, and he should only get better with game experience. Listening to his interview snippets during the game gave me the sense that he's a very confident and poised leader...he could become much better than any of us dared to expect of him.

Please, before anyone takes offense, I'm only pointing out the minutia.

Well ... there were a few very minor fax paus from Troy. All in all a stellar game from Smith, but there is stuff to work on from a mental "coach on the field" standpoint. As was mentioned earlier, the delay of game penalties. One can blame this on the coaching staff if need be, but the bottom line is that Troy is running the show on the field and needs to be responsible for that part of the game. If that requires a time out to save field position for a field goal ... so be it. If that requires hustling the team to the line to get a play off ... get it done.

Clock management just before halftime was poor. Again, this can be laid at the coaches feet, but the QB needs to take this responsibility. While trying to get into scoring range we ran a play that stayed in bounds and didn't net a first down. No timeout was called and 20 seconds ran off the clock. The very next play we gain a first down and Troy immediately calls a timeout. The exact opposite shoud have occured. Secondly there is little excuse for the coaching staff to take the field after a change of possession AND a TV timeout without several plays called to run the 2 minute drill.

The only performance issues I can recall from Troy was an ill advised forward pitch (inside pass) that was nearly intercepted. As it was, the play was ruled incomplete yet Troy still tried to cover what he must have tought was a fumble. I'll take that effort though. Cover any ball if there is any remote chance the refs will rule a fumble. Good hustle after a somewhat poor decision.

The other play involved Lydell Ross. After Lydell's season, it's easy to place the blame at his feet, but it probably lies with both players. It was Lydell's fumble at the goal line. Lydell took his eyes off of the handoff and at the same time Smith didn't put the ball into Lydell's stomach. It looked as though Lydell thought Smith would put the ball in his gut so he could concentrate on the hole (or lack thereof), and Smith looked like he beleived Lydell would take the ball off his hand no matter where he placed it. Just a half hearted attempt on that play from both guys.

As I said, very minor stuff to look at after such a great performance from Troy. My only other concern is his tendency to carry the ball away from his body when scrambling. I don't recall a time where this has actually hurt us (via a fumble), but I'd like to see the ball tucked into the body a bit tighter. I get very nervous when someone is chasing him from behind.

 

[AnnArborBuck]

A couple points in response to some earlier posts.

1. Smith played great against scUM, there is no question.

Yes he did

2. I agree one game doesn't make you a starter, but TS won 4 out of 5, and to those that said that the teams TS beat weren't very good, look at marshal cinci, and NC state's records and tell me they are great teams.

Ginn beat MSU by himself and Ginn also took a would be pick in indiana into a TD. FYI, The winning percentage of Zwick's teams was ~63% while TS was ~52% (if memory serves me right). And if you really think beating Indiana was as hard as a fired up NCST team at NCST that schemed all year then I don't know what to say.

3. When all else is equal choose the mobile quarterback. A mobile quarterback adds a third dimension to your offense, and often causes the defense to dedicate a defender to spy the quarterback. There were several plays in the scUM game where TS got away from defenders that would have sacked a pocket passer. As mentioned in another post the strategy of the D line will change when playing against a mobile quarterback, they might contain more instead of rushing in for the sack.

True a mobile QB can cause havok. But a QB whom makes quick reads can also cause havok. Our O-line had their best game bar none yesterday. Smith had all day compared to what we did earlier in the season. The first TD pass Smith has something like 8.2 seconds, he scrambled some, but most of his time was from really good blocking.

4. TS has one hell of an arm, this is something that the receivers had to get used to, but we saw what happened once they did.

TS has a great arm for distance and speed, but his accuracy is not all that. He started off hot yesterday 7-9 but then went really cold. But thanks to great field position, punt returns, and stellar D it really wasn't noticed that he had an off 3rd quarter (which he did). 4th quarter was JT stall mode so I won't count that against TS.

5. This is the last and most important point in my discussion. At this point JZ is probably a better QB in terms of reading defenses, and throwing the ball to the right man, but he gets very panicky if he is under pressure. If you get in JZ's face he will throw off target, make bad decisions, or commit turnovers. If you give him time, I'm sure he would tear apart a defense (like cinci). TS performs great on the run and under pressure. I saw several passes that he threw either while running from defenders, or with someone in his face, and they were perfect spirals that he placed right on the money. This is what I think limits JZ. You can put both guys behind a great O-line, and JZ will probably outperform TS, but if that O-line has a bad game, or you come up against a great defense that blitzes a lot, you are in a heap of trouble.

As I stated before our o-line played their best game of the season. The reason why TS had so much room to run was because protection held up long enough for the WR to clear the DB and LB's out. Smith made some great runs, but on several of those runs all he had to do was recognize that the run was there then he had 10 yards before. Zwick could have made some (not all, not even close) of the runs that Smith made.

I am not trying to be a total bummer here, but before everybody starts jumping on the TS bandwagon we need to see more. One game does not make a superstar QB. Because before yesterday, he truly has not looked very good.

 

[Oh8ch]

Troy Smith had 386 yards total offense yesterday - against Michigan. That is the third highest total for any OSU player in the 100+ year history of the University - against anyone.

How can anybody spin that?

 

[gobucks7]

If Zwick would have started yesterday there is no way we would have won. Our O-line did one of their better jobs but that's not saying much. Zwick would have been flat on his back most of the game. Defenses do not have to respect Zwick's running ability and can tee off on him.
Our O-line should improve next year but I don't forsee it turning into a force which will be a comfortable place for a pocket passer. I can't see Troy Smith losing the starting job. I think his play in this one game will carry a lot of weight with J.T. and with his teammates!

 

[BuckeyeBaiter]

Thankyou GoBucks for bringing the sanity back to this thread. I pick up two lifelong Massillon Tigers on my way south to the shoe for the games. After Saturday's game they finally admitted JZ is done at OSU. Catch the train fellas the Glenville duo is our ticket to the top again

 

[Sdgobucks]

If Zwick would have started yesterday there is no way we would have won. Our O-line did one of their better jobs but that's not saying much. Zwick would have been flat on his back most of the game. Defenses do not have to respect Zwick's running ability and can tee off on him.
Our O-line should improve next year but I don't forsee it turning into a force which will be a comfortable place for a pocket passer. I can't see Troy Smith losing the starting job. I think his play in this one game will carry a lot of weight with J.T. and with his teammates!

I agree, Zwick would have been on his back a lot, and that means that he would get panicky, throw off target, and commit turnovers.

 

[jwinslow]

Is Smith perfect? No. Is he safe at teh #1 spot at QB? No. But right now he has breathed life back into the buckeyes at times when I feel Zwick would have been getting sacked.